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Brexit negotiations

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451Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 11:45

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@xmiles wrote:

If you read the article you will see it amounts to no more than "Merkel threw her support behind the idea". This isn't even a plan let alone a project. Even if it progressed despite all the practical difficulties we would not be forced to join. So just another scare story then.

Got any other examples Hipster from the pile you mentioned?

Yes so the 2 major countries France and Germany and morons like junker and verhofstadt support the idea. I thought it was a fantasy? Thats what the remain campaign said anyway. 

We were told the there would be an immediate budget on a VOTE to leave, that the NHS would collapse, that there was a risk to peace on the continent. All the financial predictions were made on a vote to leave an none of them came true. 

Nothing to do with having left or not.

Remain campaign was also fined by the electoral commission and broke electoral law. 

Sad state of affairs. 

The PM said that the a vote to leave was a vote to leave the EU and its associated bodies. Quite simple really.

452Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 12:29

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
[size=31]Theresa May lied and lied again to become PM[/size]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/30/theresa-may-lie-and-lied-to-become-prime-minister

So we should just listen to her with that track record ? By the way, most economists stated the meltdown would start when we leave, not if we vote leave. It’s easy to pick the comments of a few individuals and ignore the impartial experts.

453Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 12:45

Guest


Guest
Hipster Nebula wrote:The PM said that the a vote to leave was a vote to leave the EU and its associated bodies. Quite simple really.

The PM was elected after the vote, so that doesn’t make your version of Brexit any more relevant I’m afraid. All it means is she wasted 2 years chasing a Brexit that would pander to the right of her party and boost her popularity with leavers (or so she mistakenly thought).

It’s not up to you or her to have the final say on what Brexit means. We live in a parliamentary democracy and the decision should be taken by parliament to deliver what’s best for the country - taking all the facts into account. 

If parliament is unable to do that, what form of Brexit we take should be a decision that comes to the people.

454Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 12:59

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Two common quotes from Theresa May that stand up to meaning nothing....

Brexit means Brexit. 
The will of the people.

The first one is a joke because still, no one knows what the hell will happen, over than normal people being worse off, and many out of a job. The second one is just a lie. The will of the people two years ago before all the realities of leaving, and all the outright lies from Farage and Johnson were unraveled. She is clueless and anyone who thinks she thinks what she is doing is in the BEST INTEREST OF THE UK is deluded.

455Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 14:05

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
Calm down dear!

456Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 14:08

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:
Hipster Nebula wrote:The PM said that the a vote to leave was a vote to leave the EU and its associated bodies. Quite simple really.

The PM was elected after the vote, so that doesn’t make your version of Brexit any more relevant I’m afraid. All it means is she wasted 2 years chasing a Brexit that would pander to the right of her party and boost her popularity with leavers (or so she mistakenly thought).

It’s not up to you or her to have the final say on what Brexit means. We live in a parliamentary democracy and the decision should be taken by parliament to deliver what’s best for the country - taking all the facts into account. 

If parliament is unable to do that, what form of Brexit we take should be a decision that comes to the people.

I meant the PM of the day. David Cameron.

457Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 14:10

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
If a party decides not to carry through with a manifesto promise in a general election (in other words lie) does that mean we should re-run the election and that the initial vote for that party was not the "will of the people"

458Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 14:40

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
@Cajunboy wrote:Calm down dear!
Typical reply from someone who can’t come up with a counter position to the statement.

459Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 14:45

Dunkels King

Dunkels King
Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:If a party decides not to carry through with a manifesto promise in a general election (in other words lie) does that mean we should re-run the election and that the initial vote for that party was not the "will of the people"
Actually it does in my opinion, but like I said a whole host of different things are up for change. I worked under both Conservative and Labour Governments in the UK, and neither of them made a single difference to me. I don’t think I was ever better off or worse off under either. I always voted Conservative. For me, neither of the main parties are fit to Govern. At the moment the Conservative leader is a proven liar and the Labour leader doesn’t want the job so floats around in the background. It’s interesting that he still goes against the largest demographic of his voters by still wanting Brexit, but that fits nicely if you are a Socialist.

460Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 15:42

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Dunkels King wrote:
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:If a party decides not to carry through with a manifesto promise in a general election (in other words lie) does that mean we should re-run the election and that the initial vote for that party was not the "will of the people"
Actually it does in my opinion, but like I said a whole host of different things are up for change. I worked under both Conservative and Labour Governments in the UK, and neither of them made a single difference to me. I don’t think I was ever better off or worse off under either. I always voted Conservative. For me, neither of the main parties are fit to Govern. At the moment the Conservative leader is a proven liar and the Labour leader doesn’t want the job so floats around in the background. It’s interesting that he still goes against the largest demographic of his voters by still wanting Brexit, but that fits nicely if you are a Socialist.

We'll we certainly agree there.

461Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 16:11

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:
@Dunkels King wrote:
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:If a party decides not to carry through with a manifesto promise in a general election (in other words lie) does that mean we should re-run the election and that the initial vote for that party was not the "will of the people"
Actually it does in my opinion, but like I said a whole host of different things are up for change. I worked under both Conservative and Labour Governments in the UK, and neither of them made a single difference to me. I don’t think I was ever better off or worse off under either. I always voted Conservative. For me, neither of the main parties are fit to Govern. At the moment the Conservative leader is a proven liar and the Labour leader doesn’t want the job so floats around in the background. It’s interesting that he still goes against the largest demographic of his voters by still wanting Brexit, but that fits nicely if you are a Socialist.

We'll we certainly agree there.

I think the only thing we all agree about is that both May and Corbyn are completely useless!

462Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 16:19

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Without question the state of British politics is at an all time low. The talent on both front benches as well is seriously poor.

463Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 21:21

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Next Prime Minister will be Sir Keir Starmer KCB QC

464Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sat Dec 29 2018, 21:39

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Yes he's quite clear on brexit.

He wants to negotiate a NEW customs union and NEW single market. But still leave.

Genius and obviously very plausible stuff.

465Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 09:28

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:Yes he's quite clear on brexit.

He wants to negotiate a NEW customs union and NEW single market. But still leave.

Genius and obviously very plausible stuff.
I hope he’s in favour of an EU army. It makes so much more sense than us struggling by with the overstretched and underfunded military we have at the moment and we’re  always bleating on about our EU partners not contributing their share militarily so an EU army would be the perfect solution.

466Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 11:04

Guest


Guest
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:Yes he's quite clear on brexit.

He wants to negotiate a NEW customs union and NEW single market. But still leave.

Genius and obviously very plausible stuff.

We’ll probably never know how a labour negotiation would go, but at least the internal market was an ambitious proposal which would have limited the economic impact of Brexit. Far better than anything the Tories put forward in two years of negotiations, but Labour aren’t limited by harder leave factions like the ERG, who will accept economic loss for ideological gain.

May desperate for a deal while promising things only no deal could deliver has left us with next to nothing.

467Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 12:21

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
The best summary of our current position was made as long ago as March 2018 by the Luxembourg prime minister Xavier Bettel who said: “They were in with loads of opt-outs and now want out with loads of opt-ins.”

Even May admits that her proposed deal is worse for Britain than staying in the EU.

468Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 15:10

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
@wanderlust wrote:Next Prime Minister will be Sir Keir Starmer KCB QC

So you think the Labour party will have the sense to ditch Corbyn before the next general election?

It seems very unlikely.

469Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 16:20

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@Cajunboy wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:Next Prime Minister will be Sir Keir Starmer KCB QC

So you think the Labour party will have the sense to ditch Corbyn before the next general election?

It seems very unlikely.

We can only hope.

470Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 16:27

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:Yes he's quite clear on brexit.

He wants to negotiate a NEW customs union and NEW single market. But still leave.

Genius and obviously very plausible stuff.

We’ll probably never know how a labour negotiation would go, but at least the internal market was an ambitious proposal which would have limited the economic impact of Brexit. Far better than anything the Tories put forward in two years of negotiations, but Labour aren’t limited by harder leave factions like the ERG, who will accept economic loss for ideological gain.

May desperate for a deal while promising things only no deal could deliver has left us with next to nothing.

The only problem I have with the labour position is the pretence that it involves leaving the EU. It doesn't.

471Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 17:03

Guest


Guest
Possibly true, but leaving those two institutions is going to do untold damage to our economy. So I’ll take a reduced hit to that over the ideological dribble that was sold as ‘taking back control’.

472Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 17:10

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Shame labour aren't honest enough to admit they intend to keep us in the EU. It really isn't hard to just tell the truth. I'm sure many voters would be attracted to the position as well.

473Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 17:14

Guest


Guest
Norway aren’t in the EU, Labour want a similar deal to that. It seems as though you think only your version of Brexit is valid, anything else is just a cop out.

474Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Sun Dec 30 2018, 18:32

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
What could possibly go wrong:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46714984

No doubt Grayling had a hand in this. Everything he is involved with is a complete disaster area: privatising the probation services; the ongoing chaos in the railways; dropping proposals to control drones; just google "Chris Grayling incompetence" for many more examples.

475Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 08:18

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:Norway aren’t in the EU, Labour want a similar deal to that. It seems as though you think only your version of Brexit is valid, anything else is just a cop out.

Everything is decided for them and they have no say on the matter, to a large extent. 

I honestly wouldn't have a problem with the Norway model because we all know, even if you are a full member you the EU will never reform. Another load of rubbish often touted. 

And labours deal is to negotiate a new CU and SM unique to just them. That's not really norway as they abide by existing models.

476Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 09:40

Guest


Guest
I know, thats why they coined the ‘internal market’. But let’s face it, we’d pursue a ‘Norway plus’ deal but more likely end up with something very similar to what they have.

If you’d be happy with a Norway deal I don’t understand what your issue is with labours position is to be honest.

477Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 10:02

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
There is no chance of a Norway plus deal as it would mean free movement of EU citizens, the one thing the brexiteers will not compromise on.

478Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 10:21

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
T.R.O.Y wrote:I know, thats why they coined the ‘internal market’. But let’s face it, we’d pursue a ‘Norway plus’ deal but more likely end up with something very similar to what they have.

If you’d be happy with a Norway deal I don’t understand what your issue is with labours position is to be honest.

Because they're not really arguing for a Norway deal. 

Every labour front bencher has a different idea. The main thread is that they believe the EU will grant them, and only them, a special, brand new customs union with all the bits they like and nothing else. Aka cherry picking.

Ya know the thing that the Tories have been mocked continually for trying.

479Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 11:46

Guest


Guest
The difference is Labour's cherry picking is just posturing, which has no affect on the actual negotiations.

The Tories pissing about has wasted two years of negotiating time, posing that they could secure a deal which would benefit us economically while meeting all the ideological nonsense promoted by their right wing.

480Brexit negotiations - Page 16 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Dec 31 2018, 11:58

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
But if they were in charge, which they wish to be, they'd have followed a similar path.

Attempting to get all the nice bits of membership and getting rid of the "bad bits."

The EU aren't going to offer a new unique CU and SM.

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