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Brexit negotiations

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961Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Feb 18 2019, 20:16

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:After anger management classes

Laughing

962Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Feb 18 2019, 20:20

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@xmiles wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:Its very clear in my mind what I voted for, and why. No point talking to you or other remainers about it, as you have made your own minds up from day 1, and have worn blinkers ever since.

Out of interest, would you mind sharing which Brexit you voted for?

You didn't really expect a reply did you WL?
Wander, if you could list the of variations you refer to, I'd would be happy to choose one. I voted for Britain's exit and not to remain. For now, it seems to me that there is only one Brexit process, and the details have still to be discussed and agreed. 
Also, I have no problem answering sensible questions, but am a little averse to talking to anyone who is so single-minded that they cannot accept any views that do not coincide with their own.

963Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Feb 18 2019, 20:26

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@gloswhite wrote:
@xmiles wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:Its very clear in my mind what I voted for, and why. No point talking to you or other remainers about it, as you have made your own minds up from day 1, and have worn blinkers ever since.

Out of interest, would you mind sharing which Brexit you voted for?

You didn't really expect a reply did you WL?
Wander, if you could list the of variations you refer to, I'd would be happy to choose one. I voted for Britain's exit and not to remain. For now, it seems to me that there is only one Brexit process, and the details have still to be discussed and agreed. 
Also, I have no problem answering sensible questions, but am a little averse to talking to anyone who is so single-minded that they cannot accept any views that do not coincide with their own.

WL did ask you a sensible question - which brexit you voted for.

You haven't answered it. Instead you asked him to give you a list of variations. Why not just answer the question?

964Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Feb 18 2019, 20:46

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Read the answer, slowly, and you will see that I don't consider there to be any variations. However if he sees a multitude of final exit scenarios, and not just aspects of the ongoing argument, then would he kindly explain them to me.
If you read it carefully, you will see that the second paragraph of my answer is actually aimed at yourself.

965Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Feb 18 2019, 21:19

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Just ignore it gloss. Were on page 33 and we've heard the same crap repeated over and over and over, I include what I've said in that.

This is now genuinely the most boring topic of all time.

Today's defections were so exciting because it meant we didn't have to talk about brexit for 20 seconds.

966Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Feb 18 2019, 22:23

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
We’re acrually on page 67 HN.

967Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Mon Feb 18 2019, 22:52

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@gloswhite wrote:Read the answer, slowly, and you will see that I don't consider there to be any variations. However if he sees a multitude of final exit scenarios, and not just aspects of the ongoing argument, then would he kindly explain them to me.
If you read it carefully, you will see that the second paragraph of my answer is actually aimed at yourself.

Do you really think that there are "no variations" between leaving the EU whilst staying in the customs union and single market (soft brexit or Norway option), May's proposed deal and a no deal brexit?

Well if you believe that I guess you can believe anything. Rolling Eyes

968Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 10:52

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:Honda announce closure of Swindon plant on back of the EU - Japan tariff free trade deal.
Another 3500 jobs.
Confirmed now.  With Nissan diverting the X-trail production to Japan it looks like the beginning of the end for the British Automotive industry. 
Underpinning this is the recent EU - Japan trade deal which guarantees no tariffs which we are obviously opting out of alongside the tariffs we'll have to pay to import parts from Europe, the tariffs we'd have to pay to re-export the finished product and the death of JIT manufacturing across all sectors created by border delays.

These factors render it unviable to produce cars in the UK any more so it's looking like automotive will be the first UK sector to die as a result of Brexit although it may take 3 to 5 years.
Currently the UK Automotive sector generates £82 BILLION and employs a MILLION people either directly or indirectly.

969Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 10:59

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Many of the small local shops surrounding the site will also pay a heavy price.

970Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 12:00

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@boltonbonce wrote:Many of the small local shops surrounding the site will also pay a heavy price.
The main problem is that automotive has been highly geared to JIT manufacturing for years which means they are highly dependent on parts that are imported, stored off site and delivered "just in time" to be assembled so more than any other sector, they are based on a huge supply chain - even more than construction. Most of the job losses and business closures will be in transport, warehousing, distribution and import/export who are predominantly SMEs spread around the country. 
The directly employed workforce are only the assemblers and they are a only a small proportion of the indirect workforce and small shops, businesses and families everywhere will be affected.
Swindon is a relatively small operation and will probably only cause 30 thousand job losses but it is the basic economics of manufacturing cars in Britain that has been undermined by Brexit so apart from the small scale specialists (who will have to hike their prices to survive if they can get away with it) the rest will inevitably follow Honda and that means massive unemployment, massive reduction of GDP, massive amounts of unemployment benefits paying paid and the massive knock on effects for the retail economy.

971Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 20:29

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
@xmiles wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:Read the answer, slowly, and you will see that I don't consider there to be any variations. However if he sees a multitude of final exit scenarios, and not just aspects of the ongoing argument, then would he kindly explain them to me.
If you read it carefully, you will see that the second paragraph of my answer is actually aimed at yourself.

Do you really think that there are "no variations" between leaving the EU whilst staying in the customs union and single market (soft brexit or Norway option), May's proposed deal and a no deal brexit?

Well if you believe that I guess you can believe anything. Rolling Eyes  
No, there are no variations, my points were all about the results of this whole process. However, there are a great number of topics on the way, with the emphasis swaying from one arena to another. I don't believe anything, as you infer, although I do believe that you are now stuck in a rut, and have become both blinkered and bitter. 
Your life will restart once we have departed the EU.  Smile

972Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 20:35

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@gloswhite wrote:
@xmiles wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:Read the answer, slowly, and you will see that I don't consider there to be any variations. However if he sees a multitude of final exit scenarios, and not just aspects of the ongoing argument, then would he kindly explain them to me.
If you read it carefully, you will see that the second paragraph of my answer is actually aimed at yourself.

Do you really think that there are "no variations" between leaving the EU whilst staying in the customs union and single market (soft brexit or Norway option), May's proposed deal and a no deal brexit?

Well if you believe that I guess you can believe anything. Rolling Eyes  
No, there are no variations, my points were all about the results of this whole process. However, there are a great number of topics on the way, with the emphasis swaying from one arena to another. I don't believe anything, as you infer, although I do believe that you are now stuck in a rut, and have become both blinkered and bitter. 
Your life will restart once we have departed the EU.  Smile

So why not answer WL's question? What kind of brexit did you hope to get?

973Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 20:43

gloswhite

gloswhite
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha
Are you really as dumb as you are coming across ?. I'm watching and listening to all the arguments, and have one or two preferences as well as the main points of migration, law, security, etc. 
To keep you happy, I will happily accept all the points currently shown in the exit agreement, minus the backstop. The overriding aim for me, is to leave the EU altogether, regardless, almost, of how we get there.

974Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 21:28

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@gloswhite wrote:Are you really as dumb as you are coming across ?. I'm watching and listening to all the arguments, and have one or two preferences as well as the main points of migration, law, security, etc. 
To keep you happy, I will happily accept all the points currently shown in the exit agreement, minus the backstop. The overriding aim for me, is to leave the EU altogether, regardless, almost, of how we get there.

You apparently want a brexit so hard it looks like a no deal brexit but not everybody who voted leave did or does want that. That is the point that WL was making - many leave voters are not going to get what they thought they were voting for.

975Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 21:30

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
As is the case in every election ever.

Lusty still hasn't proffered a solution.

976Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 22:35

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:As is the case in every election ever.

Lusty still hasn't proffered a solution.
Solution is to stay in the Customs Union and Single Market regardless of whether or not we leave the EU.

Irish border issue, tariffs issue, problems for British businesses gone at a stroke.

Is that clear enough for you?

977Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Tue Feb 19 2019, 22:53

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I think the point went over your head lusty.

I'm talking about people not getting what they voted for. Which happens in every election....ever.

978Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 01:06

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:I think the point went over your head lusty.

I'm talking about people not getting what they voted for. Which happens in every election....ever.
It's true that politicians don't always deliver the manifesto they were elected on. However they always have just the one manifesto which isn't self-contradictory. 
Unlike the Leave campaign.

979Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 09:42

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@gloswhite wrote:Its very clear in my mind what I voted for, and why. No point talking to you or other remainers about it, as you have made your own minds up from day 1, and have worn blinkers ever since.

Said the man who voted for a hard brexit and has ignored the mounting evidence that this will be very bad for the UK. Try taking the blinkers off glos! Laughing

980Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 10:54

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@wanderlust wrote:
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:I think the point went over your head lusty.

I'm talking about people not getting what they voted for. Which happens in every election....ever.
It's true that politicians don't always deliver the manifesto they were elected on. However they always have just the one manifesto which isn't self-contradictory. 
Unlike the Leave campaign.

Yes and prospective MPs/MPs never say anything contradictory on the campaign trail and on the door step do they.

It's always 100% in line with the manifesto.

981Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 12:17

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:
@wanderlust wrote:
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:I think the point went over your head lusty.

I'm talking about people not getting what they voted for. Which happens in every election....ever.
It's true that politicians don't always deliver the manifesto they were elected on. However they always have just the one manifesto which isn't self-contradictory. 
Unlike the Leave campaign.

Yes and prospective MPs/MPs never say anything contradictory on the campaign trail and on the door step do they.

It's always 100% in line with the manifesto.
Evidence?

982Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 12:29

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
The dementia tax?

983Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 12:41

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:The dementia tax?

Surely May reversed that policy whilst pathetically bleating that "nothing has changed".

984Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 12:43

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Exactly. I voted for that policy and I didn't see it the queen's speech.

985Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 12:45

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:Exactly. I voted for that policy and I didn't see it the queen's speech.

Your memory is failing. She changed it before the election not after! Razz

986Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 12:48

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
It was in the manifesto.

987Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 13:07

xmiles

xmiles
Youri Djorkaeff
Youri Djorkaeff
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:It was in the manifesto.

True but she dropped it before the election not after.

988Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 13:50

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Four days after unveiling the plans, Theresa May announced the manifesto commitment would be changed by adding a cap on total contributions people would be asked to pay.

Mrs May's comments appear to put her at odds with her own Health Secretary who told the BBC last week: "Not only are we dropping it (the cap) but we are dropping it ahead of a general election and we're being completely explicit in our manifesto that we're dropping it.

So not dropped but changed, but dropped by the health secretary. Two people with completely contradictory positions from the same side.

Which vision were people actually voting for? No contradictions in general elections as lusty said.

989Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 13:59

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:The dementia tax?
It was in the manifesto and they did campaign on it.
When they dropped it they then campaigned on the revised manifesto.

So have you got a better example of the point you are trying to make? - because it looks like you're trying to represent opinion as fact again.

Although to be fair, the Tory candidate round here didn't know his arse from his elbow, let alone what the manifesto said he was going to deliver. Obviously he was elected anyway.

990Brexit negotiations - Page 33 Empty Re: Brexit negotiations on Wed Feb 20 2019, 13:59

wanderlust


Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Hipster_Nebula wrote:The dementia tax?
It was in the manifesto and they did campaign on it.
When they dropped it they then campaigned on the revised manifesto.

So have you got a better example of the point you are trying to make? - because it looks like you're trying to represent opinion as fact again.

Although to be fair, the Tory candidate round here didn't know his arse from his elbow, let alone what the manifesto said he was going to deliver. Obviously he was elected anyway.

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