Brexit negotiations

karlypants wrote:

xmiles wrote:Nevermind the brexiteers will soon bring an end to that despite the revoke Article 50 petition already having over 3 million signatures. It would be a threat to democracy to actually listen to what people want now.

Over 3 million?

Let me know when it reaches 17.4!

Even if it did May, like you, wouldn't listen.

May is there to lead, not be swayed by public opinion.

Natasha Whittam wrote:May is there to lead, not be swayed by public opinion.

Question is therefore why does she justify her every action by claiming that "it's what the public wants" (when in reality she is referring to what the public wanted on one day in 2016)?

Her "leadership" is even being questioned by her own party amongst others and I think she has failed miserably in taking people along with her as all good leaders should.

I would feel sorry for her because she has few friends left in Parliament on on the streets, but I don't because she has insisted on railroading through an agenda that only benefits the foreign-based architects of Brexit who will make money on the markets and the more Britain suffers economically, the more they will make and sit back in their foreign homes laughing at the mugs who voted for it all the way to the bank. Murdoch will probably make even more money selling papers that whinge about it. TBF some of the architects of Brexit were British-based but they're leaving in their droves now that it becoming a reality. 

She is a pawn in somebody else's game, not a leader.

Natasha Whittam wrote:May is there to lead, not be swayed by public opinion.

But she is not leading even her own party.

She can't persuade the DUP or the ERG to support her deal. Some leadership!

Natasha Whittam wrote:May is there to lead, not be swayed by public opinion.

I did enjoy the "rap" video BTW. 
She might be a crap leader but she has finally found some shapes, even if it required grafting her head on to a different body to do it.

xmiles wrote:Nevermind the brexiteers will soon bring an end to that despite the revoke Article 50 petition already having over 3 million signatures. It would be a threat to democracy to actually listen to what people want now.

She has already said that this petition will not be discussed. i think it was just over 2 million at the time.

gloswhite wrote:

xmiles wrote:Nevermind the brexiteers will soon bring an end to that despite the revoke Article 50 petition already having over 3 million signatures. It would be a threat to democracy to actually listen to what people want now.

She has already said that this petition will not be discussed. i think it was just over 2 million at the time.

It has well over 3.5 million signatures now. But it doesn't matter how many signatures it gets May won't listen. She is incapable of listening to anybody who doesn't agree with her. That is why we are in the mess we are in now. If she was prepared to compromise she could have delivered brexit.

There's a lot of truth in that

xmiles wrote:It has well over 3.5 million signatures now. But it doesn't matter how many signatures it gets May won't listen. She is incapable of listening to anybody who doesn't agree with her. That is why we are in the mess we are in now. If she was prepared to compromise she could have delivered brexit.

16 million people voted to remain, but only 4 million signatures on this petition.

So I'm not sure why you think 4 million signatures is significant. What happened to the other 12 million?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:It has well over 3.5 million signatures now. But it doesn't matter how many signatures it gets May won't listen. She is incapable of listening to anybody who doesn't agree with her. That is why we are in the mess we are in now. If she was prepared to compromise she could have delivered brexit.

16 million people voted to remain, but only 4 million signatures on this petition.

So I'm not sure why you think 4 million signatures is significant. What happened to the other 12 million?

How many of the people who voted for brexit have changed their mind now that it is clear how bad it will be for most of them? Maybe some of them have even discovered that the EU didn't ban bendy bananas and that this was just another one of Boris' lies.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:It has well over 3.5 million signatures now. But it doesn't matter how many signatures it gets May won't listen. She is incapable of listening to anybody who doesn't agree with her. That is why we are in the mess we are in now. If she was prepared to compromise she could have delivered brexit.

16 million people voted to remain, but only 4 million signatures on this petition.

So I'm not sure why you think 4 million signatures is significant. What happened to the other 12 million?

Bit dim comparing an online petition with a referendum.

How many people who voted for Scotland to remain in the UK have changed their mind.

It's a bit strange the Democrats supporting a people's vote won't give us another say isn't it.

Can’t disagree with that. General election and a less damaging Brexit would be my choice.

Tories would happily sacrifice the country to stay in power though so we’ll probably end up with no deal.

TROY why do you want brexit, albeit a less damaging one than May's?

Because he can't bring himself to question the dear leader? 

I thought farage was right this week when he said let parliament decide between no deal and remain and be done with it.

If any party wishes to run on leaving again so be it.

I heard a political commentator on TV last night call Mrs. May a "tyrant".  

Maybe that's a bit strong but she is certainly an egotist, a control freak, a sly manipulator who is economical with the truth, unfeeling, pig-headed, and an extraordinarily bad judge.

The country can't afford to retain her as its leader any longer. Her negotiating skills are non-existent. Who would back her or her team to negotiate new trade deals successfully with the rest of the world?

Not only does she not listen, she doesn't even pretend to....certainly not since 2016 when the essential requisite was to involve parliament in a consensus that would surely by now have passed muster with the country and with the EU. It's always been "me, me, me", no matter what expert advice has been available to her which would enable us to find as much equanimity as possible in this crazy proposal that threatens ruin. 

Did Ireland feature at all in the 2016 referendum debate? No, yet it is now the biggest sticking-point. Shocking dereliction of duty to fail to point out the pitfalls to the electorate and instead promote lies and false claims.

Our financial contribution to the EU is just 1% of the government's annual spending power and for that we get many, many benefits which we now stand to throw away recklessly. The country's welfare is far more important than the future success of each individual political party. Finding a way to unite the country rather than divide it was always the missing essential. May and many other politicians  have failed to recognise this basic truth.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

I thought farage was right this week when he said let parliament decide between no deal and remain and be done with it.

Obviously parliament can't take the decision to remain so Herr Farage is just trying to be a smartarse.
However with May floundering around for new ideas, a referendum where the choices are remain or leave without a deal could be an option.

Actually lusty Parliament CAN make that decision. It was announced ages ago that Article Fifty can be cancelled at any time provided we haven't already left the EU. However it would be political suicide for those MPs who represent "Leave" areas to vote in favour of remain now.

As to a referendum I suspect it's simply too late to organise one. Since the due exit date is 29th March and even the longest available extension only goes to May 22nd it doesn't seem feasible to hold a full referendum campaign.

While I personally believe Brexit will be a disaster for the country this tortuous twisting and turning in a desperate bid to find some kind of "deal" is far more damaging to the nation in the short term imo. Personally I believe our PM should simply bite the bullet and do what the voters told her to which is exit the EU now without all this faffing about.

okocha wrote:I heard a political commentator on TV last night call Mrs. May a "tyrant".  

Maybe that's a bit strong but she is certainly an egotist, a control freak, a sly manipulator who is economical with the truth, unfeeling, pig-headed, and an extraordinarily bad judge.

The country can't afford to retain her as its leader any longer. Her negotiating skills are non-existent. Who would back her or her team to negotiate new trade deals successfully with the rest of the world?

Not only does she not listen, she doesn't even pretend to....certainly not since 2016 when the essential requisite was to involve parliament in a consensus that would surely by now have passed muster with the country and with the EU. It's always been "me, me, me", no matter what expert advice has been available to her which would enable us to find as much equanimity as possible in this crazy proposal that threatens ruin. 

Did Ireland feature at all in the 2016 referendum debate? No, yet it is now the biggest sticking-point. Shocking dereliction of duty to fail to point out the pitfalls to the electorate and instead promote lies and false claims.

Our financial contribution to the EU is just 1% of the government's annual spending power and for that we get many, many benefits which we now stand to throw away recklessly. The country's welfare is far more important than the future success of each individual political party. Finding a way to unite the country rather than divide it was always the missing essential. May and many other politicians  have failed to recognise this basic truth.

May was pretty useless at the Home Office too. She was responsible for massive cuts in police numbers and responsible for the offensive hostile environment campaign which needless to say didn't work and some of its measures have been thrown out by the courts.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Actually lusty Parliament CAN make that decision. It was announced ages ago that Article Fifty can be cancelled at any time provided we haven't already left the EU. However it would be political suicide for those MPs who represent "Leave" areas to vote in favour of remain now.

As to a referendum I suspect it's simply too late to organise one. Since the due exit date is 29th March and even the longest available extension only goes to May 22nd it doesn't seem feasible to hold a full referendum campaign.

While I personally believe Brexit will be a disaster for the country this tortuous twisting and turning in a desperate bid to find some kind of "deal" is far more damaging to the nation in the short term imo. Personally I believe our PM should simply bite the bullet and do what the voters told her to which is exit the EU now without all this faffing about.

The trouble is that the nature of the brexit was never specified in the referendum. I am pretty certain that a significant number of those who voted leave didn't vote for a no deal brexit and some of them have changed their minds (now that they know what brexit entails) and no longer want brexit.

All of which, plus all the evidence that the majority of voters do not want to leave, is why I hope we don't leave.