HomePretty much agree with sluffy's analysis of this and like him think Rebecca Long-Bailey is not the answer. There are far better candidates available. I would be happy with any of the other main contenders but think Angela Rayner would be most likely to unite the Labour party and give them a chance to recover lost ground. My biggest worry is that the useless twat Corbyn will hang on until his sycophants have stitched up a deal to get Rebecca Long-Bailey into position.
General Election
+15
Natasha Whittam
sunlight
okocha
observer
karlypants
Norpig
Cajunboy
wanderlust
Angry Dad
xmiles
Hipster_Nebula
gloswhite
boltonbonce
luckyPeterpiper
Bollotom2014
19 posters
Message [Page 21 of 24]
402 Re: General Election Sat Dec 14 2019, 16:31
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Its nice having a break from all the biased reportingkarlypants wrote:I will be celebrating tonight mate!gloswhite wrote:Welcome to the one-nation Conservative-run UK
Hopefully, the abuse will now stop.
403 Re: General Election Sat Dec 14 2019, 16:44
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
An excellent summary Sluffy. However, I think the Labour Party, and the country would benefit from a less aggressive leader, at this time, than Rayner. There is a runner mentioned , but her name escapes me at the moment, but she is a very sensible, fairly quiet, person, and her name has been mentioned in the press a couple of times.Sluffy wrote:boltonbonce wrote:Depends on who puts up.wanderlust wrote:I cant see Labour getting an electable leader for two terms unless Borat really f**** it up - but there’s every possibility of that when reality bites.
The fact is, the party membership are pretty much left leaning, and will probably vote along those lines.
Rebecca Long-Bailey will be getting my vote. If she's on the ballot.
To my way of thinking there is a big difference between idealism and reality.
Corbyn was unelectable to a great many traditional voters.
His stance on Brexit was ambiguous to say the least. He didn't seem to want to lead the party on a Remain ticket, whilst at the same time didn't want to get behind the 'get it done' philosophy that won the election for Johnson, as most people had got heartily sick of Brexit by now.
Leadership is about leading - he didn't lead.
His ideology about achieving a social utopia was all well and good but only the first time voter generation and dyed in the wool left wing socialist believed that to be attainable - how would it be founded - and probably more pertinent, who would fund it and how could it ever be paid back?
The first time voter generation and the 'dyed in the wools' seem to live in their own 'bubble' and their views and opinions are reinforced by others inhabiting the same bubble they are in. They can't accept/understand/relate to any views not consistent with their own and reject them out of hand as people being to dumb/stupid/vacuous to 'do the right thing'.
The reality is though that hard left socialism as propagated under the Corbyn/McDonnell/Momentum banner is not palatable to the large majority as can be evidenced long before this election with the waves of scores of moderate Labour MP's giving up and walking away rather than be part of the parliamentary party under the current regime. Is it any wonder then that moderate Labour voters rejected the party at the election too?
It's been clear from many Labour canvassers for some considerable time that 'Corbyn' as been an issue on the door steps of many - yet nothing was done about it.
It was clear to that Brexit 'burn out' was an issue and people wanted it to be resolved - and fast - yet no clear message came from Labour - nor it's leader!
There was a clear and obvious disconnect from the party to those who are natural supporters of it. The ideological cabal which had taken leadership of the party went along the 'Longest suicide note in history' route by rejecting the feedback they were receiving (and which was contrary to their rhetoric) and again ended up with the same outcome as before. It wasn't rocket science to see what was coming on the day - apparently they saw it themselves towards the end but even their own worst predictions were surpassed with the scale of defeat.
Brexit isn't going to be anywhere near as bad as the multitude of social media nutjobs predict. The reality is life will go on pretty much as now for many years to come and the changes that will probably result in us being worse off than had we stayed, will come gradually and accepted by most as 'normal' at the time.
It's not in anyone's interest (the EU, the ruling party, the population as a whole) for things to turn out significantly bad for going down the Brexit road, trade will continue, movement of people to and from the country will still happen, life won't be any different that what is normal now.
For what it is worth I write this as someone who is a naturally leaning Labour voter and would have much preferred to have remained in the EU.
Labour/Corbyn should have led a strong and clear Remain campaign at the time of the referendum but were conspicuous by the absence of such - they probably thought as many did that Brexit wouldn't happen anyway. Corbyn should have put country before party under May's administration, instead they went along the route of wanting Brexit to happen, then winning an election of the back of peoples dissatisfaction resulting from it, and finally when it had dragged on for so long and May was forced out, should have bit the bullet and accepted Brexit was going to happen and not wimped out of taking a lead - had they done they wouldn't have lost so many of their heartland seats.
To vote in Corbynistas like Rebecca Long-Bailey won't heal the divide and could well continue the toxicity that Brexit has caused and it's time for the party to become more in tune with the electorate again by moving more to the centre ground as the Conservatives have seemingly moved more to the political right.
Conservatives have won, Brexit will happen, we have to accept it and move on and not live in the past and cling to ideology that was rejected under Foot by the electorate in 1983 and again now in 2019.
Momentum/Corbyn is the Militant/Foot of this age and has produced exactly the same result as it did.
Do we never learn?
Power to the People eh?
As I've said before, all governments need a good opposition, and this one is no different.
405 Re: General Election Sat Dec 14 2019, 17:27
xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
gloswhite wrote:I'm thinking of Lisa Nandy
Definitely better than Rebecca Long-Bailey.
406 Re: General Election Sat Dec 14 2019, 23:27
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
My reasoning re the Labour leadership issue is that many voters do have a social conscience and would agree with some of the policies that Corbyn has espoused were it not for politics currently being largely driven by uncertainty and fear as fleeing the EU has shown and increasingly by personality over substance. The voting behaviour drivers have shifted, but there is an enormous middle ground to be won back and it would take someone With statesmanlike qualities like Sir Keir To have a chance of doing that.
Centrist voters who used to determine elections have been pushed off the middle ground by emotive rhetoric and fear mongering lies and have jumped one way or the other - but they’ve not gone far so the opportunity is there for someone to reclaim that position
With the nec currently running Labour into the ground I can’t see that leader getting elected for At least 2 terms. Moreover if Scotland gets independence that may be the final nail in Labour’s coffin as there won’t be enough ‘traditional” seats to win back.
Lib Dem’s could seek to gain the middle ground but they have a huge amounts of ground to claw back so again at least 2 terms imo.
All this could be accelerated if things go really bad for Brexit though.
Now that the election is over will the Russia investigation be published in full?
Centrist voters who used to determine elections have been pushed off the middle ground by emotive rhetoric and fear mongering lies and have jumped one way or the other - but they’ve not gone far so the opportunity is there for someone to reclaim that position
With the nec currently running Labour into the ground I can’t see that leader getting elected for At least 2 terms. Moreover if Scotland gets independence that may be the final nail in Labour’s coffin as there won’t be enough ‘traditional” seats to win back.
Lib Dem’s could seek to gain the middle ground but they have a huge amounts of ground to claw back so again at least 2 terms imo.
All this could be accelerated if things go really bad for Brexit though.
Now that the election is over will the Russia investigation be published in full?
407 Re: General Election Sun Dec 15 2019, 00:05
Sluffy
Admin
London Mayor Sadiq Khan has blamed Labour's "catastrophic" defeat on Jeremy Corbyn's leadership and the "repeated failure to tackle anti-Semitism".
The Mayor of London said his party's election performance, which left them with 203 MPs nationwide, had "failed ... the sick, the poorest and the vulnerable".
Writing on Facebook, the former MP for Tooting said: "If we are truly honest with ourselves, we knew in our hearts that Jeremy Corbyn's leadership was deeply unpopular with the British people and that we were extremely unlikely to form a Labour government last night.
"Labour's shocking and repeated failure to tackle anti-Semitism, and our inability to put forward a credible and believable set of priorities for governing have made a major contribution to the scale of this defeat."
https://www.itv.com/news/london/2019-12-13/sadiq-khan-blames-labour-defeat-on-corbyn-and-failure-to-tackle-anti-semitism/
408 Re: General Election Sun Dec 15 2019, 11:17
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nandy is considering it. Will be an interesting choice when it comes.
411 Re: General Election Sun Dec 15 2019, 22:17
xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Imagine the reaction if Corbyn had made similar threats. Somehow I don't see the Tory press objecting to this at all. That is just a sign of the future that we can look forward to thanks to the people stupid enough to vote for Boris.
412 Re: General Election Mon Dec 16 2019, 09:16
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Personally, I think its about time the BBC was financed in some other way. All this guff about honesty and integrity just doesn't wash anymore. It doesn't need to be paid for by everyone. Its bloated and costing a fortune with no real management, and its coverage of the Brexit and election issues was biased quite badly.xmiles wrote:
Imagine the reaction if Corbyn had made similar threats. Somehow I don't see the Tory press objecting to this at all. That is just a sign of the future that we can look forward to thanks to the people stupid enough to vote for Boris.
413 Re: General Election Mon Dec 16 2019, 09:17
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Were having a Brexit Christmas dinner this year, no Brussels 
414 Re: General Election Mon Dec 16 2019, 09:20
gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Wander, I think you're right about the two terms that Labour will miss out, (on current standings). A point was made on TV yesterday that the ones pulling the strings , i.e. Momentum, will try to keep their infrastructure in place, which points to another Corbynista, and the closest to their views is Long-Bailey.
I don't like her myself, as she's nothing more than a Corbyn without a beard.
I don't like her myself, as she's nothing more than a Corbyn without a beard.
415 Re: General Election Mon Dec 16 2019, 10:11
xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
gloswhite wrote:Personally, I think its about time the BBC was financed in some other way. All this guff about honesty and integrity just doesn't wash anymore. It doesn't need to be paid for by everyone. Its bloated and costing a fortune with no real management, and its coverage of the Brexit and election issues was biased quite badly.xmiles wrote:
Imagine the reaction if Corbyn had made similar threats. Somehow I don't see the Tory press objecting to this at all. That is just a sign of the future that we can look forward to thanks to the people stupid enough to vote for Boris.
Yes I think the BBC coverage of the election was biased. They were clearly frightened of Boris and it showed. Glad we agree on that glos.
416 Re: General Election Mon Dec 16 2019, 10:48
Angry Dad
Youri Djorkaeff
You are one offensive fucker.xmiles wrote:
Imagine the reaction if Corbyn had made similar threats. Somehow I don't see the Tory press objecting to this at all. That is just a sign of the future that we can look forward to thanks to the people stupid enough to vote for Boris.
417 Re: General Election Mon Dec 16 2019, 11:30
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Speaking of the BBC, did anyone watch SPOTY last night. Apart from Gary jug ears telling us the winner early (two hours before the phone lines closed, thus stealing even more money) the whole show was a bloated mess. The finale was laughable.
418 Re: General Election Mon Dec 16 2019, 15:19
Cajunboy
Frank Worthington
Thanks for that reply AD.Angry Dad wrote:You are one offensive fucker.xmiles wrote:
Imagine the reaction if Corbyn had made similar threats. Somehow I don't see the Tory press objecting to this at all. That is just a sign of the future that we can look forward to thanks to the people stupid enough to vote for Boris.
I couldn't have put it better if I'd tried.
It's the sheer arrogance of remainers that winds me up.
419 Re: General Election Mon Dec 16 2019, 16:58
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:That is just a sign of the future that we can look forward to thanks to the people stupid enough to vote for Boris.
Which party did intelligent people vote for xmiles?
420 Re: General Election Mon Dec 16 2019, 17:05
karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Obviously Labour NatNatasha Whittam wrote:xmiles wrote:That is just a sign of the future that we can look forward to thanks to the people stupid enough to vote for Boris.
Which party did intelligent people vote for xmiles?
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