How is the Tory government doing?

xmiles wrote:You are comparing apples with pears.

The survey I provided a link to was specifically about current views on brexit. You provided details of a poll showing how people say they would vote if there were a general election.

The only thing we agree on is that it is all totally hypothetical as there won't be either another referendum or a general election for years.

Brexit's been voted on three times - and the person who headed the Brexit campaign went on to also win the General Election on a platform of 'getting it done' less than a year ago and is the current leader of the Conservative Government presently in power!

Apart from London, Scotland and Wales close to 100% of all provincial constituencies voted for Brexit at the Referendum and similarly at last years Europeans.

There's excessive overlap between voting intent and party for the Conservative's (Pro-Brexit) and what you are not taking into account the overwhelming desire of Labour voters who have desired it from the beginning and have cast their votes that way - the 'red wall' absolutely collapsed in last years GE as hard core Labour voters cast their votes for 'Brexit' rather than along party lines.

There's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that based on this polls findings - a 10 point Conservative leader over Labour plus Labour seats outside the capital consistently voting for Brexit - that if there was a vote tomorrow on continuing with Brexit that it still would be successful.

All a load of bollocks though as no vote is going to happen but whether you or anyone else likes it or not, that is still the desire of the electorate at this time and has been so since the referendum itself.

So just ignore the results of one poll because it conflicts with your view that "there's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that based on this polls findings ... that if there was a vote tomorrow on continuing with Brexit that it still would be successful."?

The only reason I posted the link was to show that opinions about brexit have and are changing. This isn't about whether brexit is a good or bad thing.

Anyway it is entirely academic.

xmiles wrote:So just ignore the results of one poll because it conflicts with your view that "there's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that based on this polls findings ... that if there was a vote tomorrow on continuing with Brexit that it still would be successful."?

The only reason I posted the link was to show that opinions about brexit have and are changing. This isn't about whether brexit is a good or bad thing.

Anyway it is entirely academic.

You can ignore whatever you like.

Close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and scream 'not listening, not listening' as much as you please - I couldn't care less.

The poll was presumably commissioned and done for whatever reason - I'd guess the Conservatives wanted to have a feel for how the country is viewing their handling of the pandemic - but the fact is it was done and those are the results.

It really isn't a large step at all to extrapolate from how people have voted over the last four years for Brexit - particularly in two national elections in the last twelve months - and how they would vote now on Brexit based on how they would currently vote if a GE was held today.

It's all the same to me, we are having Brexit whether we want it or not - and how it is to be delivered and the effects of which are totally out of my control.

Fwiw, the survey you refer to was done in 2019* the same year the nation voted twice for 'Brexit' - indeed overwhelmingly in the European elections where the Brexit Party did this!!! -

The Brexit Party topped polls in every country or region apart from London, which was won by the Liberal Democrats; Scotland, which was won by the SNP; and Northern Ireland, where they did not stand.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48403131

So jog on, I'm not playing your games anymore.


* The survey, completed in 2019 and released this week (26th June 2020!!!)...

https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-most-british-people-want-to-rejoin-eu-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

Natasha Whittam wrote:

I come on here to read views about the state of the pandemic, not to read Brexit posts repeated OVER AND OVER AND OVER again by the same posters.

The thread is "How is the Tory Government doing?" Not our fault they continually f*** up one thing after another.
Leaving the EU is the biggest thing on their agenda - or it was. And they're f****** that up too, so it has a rightful place on this thread.
When the Tories stop f****** up OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, folk will stop writing about it so if you don't like it don't vote for the morons and they'll soon be consigned to the bin labelled "most incompetent government of all time" - where they belong.

wanderlust wrote:
The thread is "How is the Tory Government doing?" Not our fault they continually f*** up one thing after another.
Leaving the EU is the biggest thing on their agenda - or it was. And they're f****** that up too, so it has a rightful place on this thread.
When the Tories stop f****** up OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, folk will stop writing about it so if you don't like it don't vote for the morons and they'll soon be consigned to the bin labelled "most incompetent government of all time" - where they belong.

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

I come on here to read views about the state of the pandemic, not to read Brexit posts repeated OVER AND OVER AND OVER again by the same posters.

The thread is "How is the Tory Government doing?" Not our fault they continually f*** up one thing after another.
Leaving the EU is the biggest thing on their agenda - or it was. And they're f****** that up too, so it has a rightful place on this thread.
When the Tories stop f****** up OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, folk will stop writing about it so if you don't like it don't vote for the morons and they'll soon be consigned to the bin labelled "most incompetent government of all time" - where they belong.

And yet when the country had the opportunity to vote them out of government the Conservatives ended up with a vastly increased majority and Labour basically imploded to it's worst election result in in decades!!!

Think not how bad the Conservatives are but how worse the electorate believed Corbyn/Labour to be!

(Even as recently as last week the opinion polls still give the Conservatives a 10 point lead over Labour!!!).

We all know how and why the Tories came to hold office, but what matters now is what the party does with the power it has won. That is what will determine success or failure for our country.

Sluffy provides a handy list of some of the failings of the present government in his recent post:- ".........handling of the pandemic/highest death rate/PPE issues/care home deaths/Cummings little drive to test his eyesight/etc, etc and it's U-turns and various cock-ups so far...." 


There are plenty more that come to light with each passing day, most of which come under the umbrella of corrupt, immoral practices, bullying, lies and denials, defending the indefensible, trying to exert absolute control etc.


 Incompetence is one thing, but lack of any sort of moral code means that it is impossible to trust or believe Boris, Cummings and the cabinet. What is happening is a tragedy that we should all try to avert, however we can.

Sluffy wrote:

And yet when the country had the opportunity to vote them out of government the Conservatives ended up with a vastly increased majority and Labour basically imploded to it's worst election result in in decades!!!

I'm sure the Russia report will explain that if it's ever released.

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

And yet when the country had the opportunity to vote them out of government the Conservatives ended up with a vastly increased majority and Labour basically imploded to it's worst election result in in decades!!!

I'm sure the Russia report will explain that if it's ever released.

What makes you think the Russians wanted the Conservatives to win?

The only information we seem to have so far is that they were backing Labour!

(They hacked official communication with America showing they wanted the NHS to be on the table for trade talks and supplied the details to Labour which Corbyn produced at their conference).

Sluffy wrote:

What makes you think the Russians wanted the Conservatives to win?

1. Logic. Brexit weakens the EU and basic political strategy is to divide your opponents. It is similar to their support for Trump.

2. The close links the Tory party has with billionaire Russian oligarchs connected to Putin. Where do you think the Tories get their money from? For example the Tory party treasurer Ehud Sheleg has personally given the Tories millions and received a knighthood.

xmiles wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

What makes you think the Russians wanted the Conservatives to win?

1. Logic. Brexit weakens the EU and basic political strategy is to divide your opponents. It is similar to their support for Trump.

2. The close links the Tory party has with billionaire Russian oligarchs connected to Putin. Where do you think the Tories get their money from? For example the Tory party treasurer Ehud Sheleg has personally given the Tories millions and received a knighthood.

You may well be right but if I wanted to influence a foreign government I'd back BOTH runners in a two horse race to be sure I'd got some sway whoever won!

Now that's how my logic works and that's why Corbyn got a hacked trade talk document that presumably the Conservatives didn't want leaking!

I imagine that the lengths Boris et al have gone to in burying the report - and they are incredible lengths - perhaps indicate who the Russians were backing. Had it been Labour the report would have been published months ago.

I think the Russians, understandably from their point of view, are only interested in what is good for them. Helping the Tories win and brexit suits them in the same way that helping Trump win does. In both cases it destabilises the western allies. If Corbyn had won I don't think it would have been quite as helpful to them. In either case they obviously can't openly take the credit for their actions.

Corbyn seems to have only benefitted from using a leaked document which had been available on Reddit for some time rather than receiving direct support. In contrast it appears that the Tories and the brexit campaign received help in the form of activity on the internet and social media.

There is a useful article in the Guardian giving more background on Raab's attempt to divert attention away from Russian support for brexit and the Tories.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/16/dominic-raab-belatedly-acknowledges-russian-threat-but-why-now

okocha wrote:

Am I right in thinking that quarantine measures have been put in place based on scientific data that they don't have?

Sorry to have to ask but there is so much waffle and smokescreen it's unclear to me.

The Guardian reports England's chief nurse Ruth May as saying she was "dropped" from a No 10 news conference after refusing to back Mr Johnson's adviser Dominic Cummings, following his trip to Barnard Castle during lockdown.

Just trying to get my head around the Russia Report. Interesting isn't it.

boltonbonce wrote:Interesting isn't it.

I'd rather read a 1000 page thesis on slippers.