Brexit Watch

Natasha Whittam wrote:

It was a top post because it was a bit of positivity.

This is a football forum, do I really need to read the same post rehashed day after day after day?

You don't like or agree with Brexit. I get it. No need to labour the point.

Key part of my post was the end and shows how the situation has changed massively, the disaster is no longer 'project fear' it is reality - so long as we have people like White ignoring that reality then the charlatans who sold it to them will stay in power and we won't get back to a positive situation. 

That point does need labouring, if we let them live in dream world where will change come from?

Norpig wrote:Genuine question and not try to wind up people, but was Brexit worth it if it causes Northern Ireland to go back to the bad old days? Its in the news regularly that the Unionists are far from happy with the sea border and all the extra checks its caused.

Shouldn't the Good Friday agreement have been taken into more consideration when Brexit was being voted on?

My sentiments exactly. Well said, Norpig.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Key part of my post was the end and shows how the situation has changed massively, the disaster is no longer 'project fear' it is reality - so long as we have people like White ignoring that reality then the charlatans who sold it to them will stay in power and we won't get back to a positive situation. 

That point does need labouring, if we let them live in dream world where will change come from?

Reality? Most things going tits up in this world right now are due to the pandemic. That's the sad reality.

Brexit is a long term project, I've said that from the start. Major change doesn't come easily. However, the impact is being felt in a positive way, from where I'm sitting people doing traditionally low paid work are finally being valued. I really don't see how anyone can see that as a bad thing.

History is what happened, not what we wished had happened. No use fighting battles that have already been lost.
We now need to come together and find a way to make this work, hard as that may be.

Crikey, talk about put a negative spin on something. It’s perfectly clear that some remain voters really don’t want to see any positives in anything. T.R.O.Y obviously gets his financial information from the Granuad, or makes it up to suit his views and wander, after 50 years tied to a bloc that has virtually bankrupted every Southern European state to support German Engineering and French farming seems absolutely ridiculous. The EU is and always has been a German French club with little or no regard to any of the other members, including the UK, though they were more than ready to take our billions every year. 

It would have been unthinkable to even imagine that there wouldn’t be any disadvantages or issues breaking away, of course there are and it will take time to overcome them. The pandemic has just made things much worse but this country is more than capable of reaching new highs as it has done many times before from adversity during our history. I may be totally wrong, have been duped by politicians and brought the country to its knees, or I may equally have been one of those who saw the light and was prepared to suffer initial pain for the later gains. I actually have confidence in this country and the people who live in it and would rather talk and build it up than put it down like you do.

Whitesince63 wrote:Crikey, talk about put a negative spin on something. It’s perfectly clear that some remain voters really don’t want to see any positives in anything. 

A bit pot/kettle that amigo.

It was the Remain voters who recognised all the positives about EU membership including low prices, ready supplies and raw materials for our manufacturers, wide choice of goods, fantastic worldwide trade deals based on the collective bargaining power of a huge bloc, inexpensive foreign labour doing the jobs Brits wouldn't and still won't, a strong economy, free unencumbered travel, minimal paperwork for our businesses, no import or export taxes, a rock solid supply chain, plenty of doctors, carers and medical staff, better national security arrangements, improved scientific research etc etc.
The negative ones were the Leave voters who were prepared to throw all that away because of what? Straight bananas?

EU membership had some minor problems for the UK - which could have been sorted out as a member - but rather than stand and fight our corner in Brussels we ran away.

Now the problems our country faces are a thousand times worse than anything we had as an EU member. 
Our negotiators are still weak and have sold us down the river in the few deals they've agreed so far - because the fact is we are small fry compared to the EU - we just don't have the clout to drive a hard bargain with the big boys and we are getting shafted at every turn. America won't even discuss a deal.

Criticism of the government isn't spin - it's stating the bleeding obvious. Nor is it negative - if these clowns are going to be stopped before they do any more damage people have to speak up as the one thing they do respond to is public opinion.

Unfortunately there is a rump of Brexiteers who simply don't want to see what's before their very eyes and are stuck in a spiral of finding excuses for what the government are doing:

"We knew everything that Project Fear predicted would come true all along - because Brexit is a long term project and it was always going to happen" (perhaps they should have mentioned that at the referendum)

"It's Covid's fault not the government"

"It's the EU's fault not the government"

There are many more but the fact is they had no plan, they had no negotiation strategy, they massively overestimated our bargaining strength, they undermined trust amongst potential partners, they put the principles of sovereignty ahead of the economy - on which everything else stands and they grossly underestimated the cost of Brexit which as it turns out is far, far greater than the cost of EU membership.

I'm deeply unhappy that Brexit is turning out as predicted, but the important thing now is to stop it getting even worse - and the only thing that this lot listen to is voters. After all, their objective is to stay in power for as long as possible before they retire to the lecture circuit abroad.

If Leave voters have any vestige of national and personal pride left, they'll man up and put an end to this debacle - because their country needs them.

Ws63: do you write for the Express? Learn to spell "Guardian", and respect it for its honesty and factual reporting.

Lusty: your post above is very well expressed and neatly summarises the truth of the situation. We will only recover if we learn from the greatest act of self-harm that our country has ever inflicted on itself.

And TROY is so right to point out the tragedy of damage to N.I. and the Good Friday Agreement.

Our willingness to break the law, wheedle our way out of promises and pacts, deny, lie, obfuscate etc means that our standing in the world is badly damaged. We are no longer trusted across the globe.

Our media should not join in with attempts to hoodwink or gaslight the public.

okocha wrote:Ws63: do you write for the Express? Learn to spell "Guardian", and respect it for its honesty and factual reporting.

Lusty: your post above is very well expressed and neatly summarises the truth of the situation. We will only recover if we learn from the greatest act of self-harm that our country has ever inflicted on itself.

And TROY is so right to point out the tragedy of damage to N.I. and the Good Friday Agreement.

Our willingness to break the law, wheedle our way out of promises and pacts, deny, lie, obfuscate etc means that our standing in the world is badly damaged. We are no longer trusted across the globe.

Our media should not join in with attempts to hoodwink or gaslight the public.

Here's a bit of honesty and factual reporting for you.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/11/dean-holdsworth-bolton-wanderers-championship

How thick do you have to be to publish this stuff and how thick do you have to be to swallow it?

wanderlust wrote:
A bit pot/kettle that amigo.

It was the Remain voters who recognised all the positives about EU membership including low prices, ready supplies and raw materials for our manufacturers, wide choice of goods, fantastic worldwide trade deals based on the collective bargaining power of a huge bloc, inexpensive foreign labour doing the jobs Brits wouldn't and still won't, a strong economy, free unencumbered travel, minimal paperwork for our businesses, no import or export taxes, a rock solid supply chain, plenty of doctors, carers and medical staff, better national security arrangements, improved scientific research etc etc.
The negative ones were the Leave voters who were prepared to throw all that away because of what? Straight bananas?

EU membership had some minor problems for the UK - which could have been sorted out as a member - but rather than stand and fight our corner in Brussels we ran away.

Now the problems our country faces are a thousand times worse than anything we had as an EU member. 
Our negotiators are still weak and have sold us down the river in the few deals they've agreed so far - because the fact is we are small fry compared to the EU - we just don't have the clout to drive a hard bargain with the big boys and we are getting shafted at every turn. America won't even discuss a deal.

Criticism of the government isn't spin - it's stating the bleeding obvious. Nor is it negative - if these clowns are going to be stopped before they do any more damage people have to speak up as the one thing they do respond to is public opinion.

Unfortunately there is a rump of Brexiteers who simply don't want to see what's before their very eyes and are stuck in a spiral of finding excuses for what the government are doing:

"We knew everything that Project Fear predicted would come true all along - because Brexit is a long term project and it was always going to happen" (perhaps they should have mentioned that at the referendum)

"It's Covid's fault not the government"

"It's the EU's fault not the government"

There are many more but the fact is they had no plan, they had no negotiation strategy, they massively overestimated our bargaining strength, they undermined trust amongst potential partners, they put the principles of sovereignty ahead of the economy - on which everything else stands and they grossly underestimated the cost of Brexit which as it turns out is far, far greater than the cost of EU membership.

I'm deeply unhappy that Brexit is turning out as predicted, but the important thing now is to stop it getting even worse - and the only thing that this lot listen to is voters. After all, their objective is to stay in power for as long as possible before they retire to the lecture circuit abroad.

If Leave voters have any vestige of national and personal pride left, they'll man up and put an end to this debacle - because their country needs them.

I don’t know how old you are Lusty but I’m old enough to remember the UK as it was before we joined the Common Market and voted against remaining members in 75 when it was clear that membership was much more than we were being told. Government kept the real truth from us then just as they do now, including BoJo. We didn’t have any problem with Brits doing all the jobs available at that time and certainly didn’t need cheap Labour from abroad. We even picked our own fruit and very good fruit it was until the EU came in with all their silly regulations like banana shape, which got the headlines but misses the point. We produce around 2,500 different types of apples across the UK but how many do you see in supermarkets? Very few due to the rules on uniformity, size and colour, so we need to import instead.

We had a manufacturing industry, a fishing industry and amongst the most modern and productive farming industry in the world. Where are they now? We produced our own milk via the Milk Marketing Board ensuring farmers received the best deal. All gone to your precious EU with its food and Milk mountains through the CAP, just to suit France.

Of course finance is being located to EU countries to ensure UK companies comply with EU regulation but it’s just figures on a spreadsheet and EU companies have done the same into the UK so they can keep operating here. Fact is, there is no European financial centre that can even begin to compare with London and that’s not going to change. The EU reluctance to offer the UK the same rights it offers the likes of the US and Singapore is nothing but spite but it will backfire on them in the end as we give up on them.

Nobody’s denying the problems we’re facing including NI but the EU have used that situation purely as a bargaining chip despite the possible repercussions. It’s disgraceful and disingenuous and another example of why we’re better out. With only around 5% of NI trade going to the South, are you really trying to tell me that currently available schemes couldn’t have been applied across the border?

We can disagree on this until the cows come home but the fact is that the EU is a corrupt bureaucratic mess which will sooner or later crumble. It’s out of date, expensive and unrepresentative of what’s happening in the world today. It may be tough just now but I’d much rather be where we are now and will be more so in the future when we’ve thrown off the last shackles of the mess that is the EU.

Whitesince63 wrote:

I don’t know how old you are Lusty but I’m old enough to remember the UK as it was before we joined the Common Market and voted against remaining members in 75 when it was clear that membership was much more than we were being told. Government kept the real truth from us then just as they do now, including BoJo. We didn’t have any problem with Brits doing all the jobs available at that time and certainly didn’t need cheap Labour from abroad. We even picked our own fruit and very good fruit it was until the EU came in with all their silly regulations like banana shape, which got the headlines but misses the point. We produce around 2,500 different types of apples across the UK but how many do you see in supermarkets? Very few due to the rules on uniformity, size and colour, so we need to import instead.

We had a manufacturing industry, a fishing industry and amongst the most modern and productive farming industry in the world. Where are they now? We produced our own milk via the Milk Marketing Board ensuring farmers received the best deal. All gone to your precious EU with its food and Milk mountains through the CAP, just to suit France.

Of course finance is being located to EU countries to ensure UK companies comply with EU regulation but it’s just figures on a spreadsheet and EU companies have done the same into the UK so they can keep operating here. Fact is, there is no European financial centre that can even begin to compare with London and that’s not going to change. The EU reluctance to offer the UK the same rights it offers the likes of the US and Singapore is nothing but spite but it will backfire on them in the end as we give up on them.

Nobody’s denying the problems we’re facing including NI but the EU have used that situation purely as a bargaining chip despite the possible repercussions. It’s disgraceful and disingenuous and another example of why we’re better out. With only around 5% of NI trade going to the South, are you really trying to tell me that currently available schemes couldn’t have been applied across the border?

We can disagree on this until the cows come home but the fact is that the EU is a corrupt bureaucratic mess which will sooner or later crumble. It’s out of date, expensive and unrepresentative of what’s happening in the world today. It may be tough just now but I’d much rather be where we are now and will be more so in the future when we’ve thrown off the last shackles of the mess that is the EU.

I'm old enough to remember before that when the UK economy was on it's arse and massive inflation was driving prices up before we joined the Common Market in 1973 - the Tories were in favour and Labour against.
The following year Ted Heath's government capped public sector wages and introduced the 3 day week, forced TV companies to stop broadcasting at 10.30 to save electricity, basic services closed down and the first signs of serious industrial unrest emerged coming to a head in 79 and the "Winter of Discontent" - which ironically the Tories blamed on Labour and still hash it up years later.

The EU is a mess and we know that because they are open and honest about everything they do - although the problems are massively exaggerated by the media who selective never talked about the huge benefits we gained. Nor did they ever get on the back of our government for failing to sort out the mess when they had influence to do so. If the EU was a mess then it was at least in part our mess.

However, the British Government is a bigger mess  especially when it doesn't have to answer to it's partners who serve to keep it's excesses in check. And although it's very cloak and dagger there is sufficient evidence out there to suggest that the British government is even more corrupt than Brussels.

The fact is the Tories took us into Europe, then blamed it for our problems, and then took us back out again - which stinks of poor leadership, failure to take full advantage of the benefits of membership, indecision and what my missus calls "slopey shoulders" i.e. never accepting responsibility. They are the party of spin and disinformation.

That said, it's clear attitudes towards Brexit are changing amongst Brexiteers and "Leaver regret" is at it highest level to date.

The Sunday Mail - that bastion of pro-Brexit Toryism ran a readers' poll recently but the results were shockingly bad from their perspective so they buried it at the bottom of an inside page this weekend.



When only 36% of Sunday Fail readers would vote for Brexit now - and more surprisingly 45% would vote remain - it tells you something about the mood of the country.

Also worth noting that 52% of them think Boris isn't doing a good job.

Worryingly 20% think he'd make a better husband than Keir Starmer which tells me that 1 in 5 conservative women are very, very desperate indeed  )

Anyone here called Nigel?

You know they run those surveys to monitor what parents name their kids?

Apparently since Brexit, the name Nigel has declined in popularity and now.....

Research released this week by the Office for National Statistics has revealed the most (and least) popular baby names in England and Wales, and the name “Nigel” has officially been deemed extinct. The data showed that not a single baby was named Nigel in the whole of 2020.

And in Australia, the name Nigel has become so unpopular that it's used as shorthand for someone without any friends.

Interesting article in the Independent about Boris's attempts to woo investors back to London at yesterday's Global Investment summit.

The City lost $3 trillion because of Brexit but the fund managers in the room he was addressing represented $24 trillion in funds so it was his big chance to get some of the losses back.

The feedback from the investors after his pitch is of particular interest particularly in the areas of "no clear plan" and the need to tear up the new visa requirements in order to to recruit the best fund managers globally.

wanderlust wrote:
I'm old enough to remember before that when the UK economy was on it's arse and massive inflation was driving prices up before we joined the Common Market in 1973 - the Tories were in favour and Labour against.
The following year Ted Heath's government capped public sector wages and introduced the 3 day week, forced TV companies to stop broadcasting at 10.30 to save electricity, basic services closed down and the first signs of serious industrial unrest emerged coming to a head in 79 and the "Winter of Discontent" - which ironically the Tories blamed on Labour and still hash it up years later.

The EU is a mess and we know that because they are open and honest about everything they do - although the problems are massively exaggerated by the media who selective never talked about the huge benefits we gained. Nor did they ever get on the back of our government for failing to sort out the mess when they had influence to do so. If the EU was a mess then it was at least in part our mess.

However, the British Government is a bigger mess  especially when it doesn't have to answer to it's partners who serve to keep it's excesses in check. And although it's very cloak and dagger there is sufficient evidence out there to suggest that the British government is even more corrupt than Brussels.

The fact is the Tories took us into Europe, then blamed it for our problems, and then took us back out again - which stinks of poor leadership, failure to take full advantage of the benefits of membership, indecision and what my missus calls "slopey shoulders" i.e. never accepting responsibility. They are the party of spin and disinformation.

That said, it's clear attitudes towards Brexit are changing amongst Brexiteers and "Leaver regret" is at it highest level to date.

The Sunday Mail - that bastion of pro-Brexit Toryism ran a readers' poll recently but the results were shockingly bad from their perspective so they buried it at the bottom of an inside page this weekend.



When only 36% of Sunday Fail readers would vote for Brexit now - and more surprisingly 45% would vote remain - it tells you something about the mood of the country.

Also worth noting that 52% of them think Boris isn't doing a good job.

Worryingly 20% think he'd make a better husband than Keir Starmer which tells me that 1 in 5 conservative women are very, very desperate indeed  )

Once again lusty I think you’re being a bit selective in how you see things. It’s true the economy was in a mess in the early seventies, primarily due to Union unrest and the major unions run by a hard left minority. I do blame Heath because he didn’t stand up to the miners, as Maggie did later to our massive benefit. Since you were around at the time you’ll recall the likes of Red Robbo at Leyland and the start of the demise of our car industry. Those years were decimated by Union issues resulting in our label as the sick man of Europe.

Joining Europe in 73, our 3rd attempt wasn’t voted on and it wasn’t until 75 that we finally got the chance to have our say. As I said, I voted no because I could see the lies and deceptions the government was making. In fact it was about the only time in my life I ever agreed with Tony Benn. 🥴 Everything he forecast has come to pass yet still there are people who think we did the right thing joining? 

You believe the EU is truthful and genuine. I have to say that I’m surprised at that given that Poland are currently being punished for wanting to do exactly what the Germans have been doing for years. It’s all about opinions lusty and I respect yours entirely. However we feel, we’ve now left and we’ll never go back. Despite what you say about leave voters changing their minds, I’m not sure the result would be any different today if it was held to go back in. The EU is in decline whether you accept it or not. It’s complete refusal to consider any changes to its four rules is it’s route to failure. Principles are great when they suit but the world has changed since the seventies and so have the number and make up of countries in the EU.

A trading block, similar to the original Common Market would be hugely beneficial and I’d have no concerns joining that but I’m afraid when matters of politics, rule making and religion are thrown into the mix, it’s a different ball game. It will end in tears and we’re better out no matter how tough it seems just now.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Once again lusty I think you’re being a bit selective in how you see things. It’s true the economy was in a mess in the early seventies, primarily due to Union unrest and the major unions run by a hard left minority. I do blame Heath because he didn’t stand up to the miners, as Maggie did later to our massive benefit. Since you were around at the time you’ll recall the likes of Red Robbo at Leyland and the start of the demise of our car industry. Those years were decimated by Union issues resulting in our label as the sick man of Europe.

Joining Europe in 73, our 3rd attempt wasn’t voted on and it wasn’t until 75 that we finally got the chance to have our say. As I said, I voted no because I could see the lies and deceptions the government was making. In fact it was about the only time in my life I ever agreed with Tony Benn. 🥴 Everything he forecast has come to pass yet still there are people who think we did the right thing joining? 

You believe the EU is truthful and genuine. I have to say that I’m surprised at that given that Poland are currently being punished for wanting to do exactly what the Germans have been doing for years. It’s all about opinions lusty and I respect yours entirely. However we feel, we’ve now left and we’ll never go back. Despite what you say about leave voters changing their minds, I’m not sure the result would be any different today if it was held to go back in. The EU is in decline whether you accept it or not. It’s complete refusal to consider any changes to its four rules is it’s route to failure. Principles are great when they suit but the world has changed since the seventies and so have the number and make up of countries in the EU.

A trading block, similar to the original Common Market would be hugely beneficial and I’d have no concerns joining that but I’m afraid when matters of politics, rule making and religion are thrown into the mix, it’s a different ball game. It will end in tears and we’re better out no matter how tough it seems just now.

After our post war boom in the 50s (McMillan's "you've never had it so good" etc) the UKs economy declined throughout the 60s despite the prevalence of cheap housing, full employment and availability of leisure goods which gave the false impression we were doing well.

The facts are that whilst we still enjoyed moderate growth, our competitors in the US, Germany, Japan, France roared ahead of us during that decade and by 1970 we had slipped into a balance of payments deficit for the first time in our history, our borrowing boomed and we had become uncompetitive in the international markets.
Why?
* Unwillingness and inability to keep up with innovation
* Complacency. Our competitors poured investment into industry whilst we did nothing.
* Lack of public sector infrastructure
* The burden of post war debt - remember we were still paying the Yanks for saving us.

As you rightly mention, by the 70s industrial action further stalled our growth but that was a symptom of our declining economy as much as a cause.

And it was Labour, notably Barbara Castle's 1969 "In Place of Strife" white paper that first tried to moderate union activity, regulate bargaining and get the unions to take corporate responsibility - but the Tories won the election before the second reading and so it was never passed.
Ironically, the Tories then claimed Castle's policies as their own and used the media to demonise the unions - and Labour.

We tried to join the EEC twice in the 60s to save our ass - both times vetoed by the French and the reason for that was because we knew it was our only hope of saving our failing nation.

When we finally joined under the Tories in the 70s we were  f*****, unemployment had rocketed, inflation was at 9.5% and it took years of EU membership to turn that around.

Under the Tories, inflation peaked at a staggering 25% in 1975.

What worries me is that the current government's policies are taking us down that same road again.

All the symptoms are there - declining international influence and reduced competitiveness due to leaving the EU, offering token wage increases to appease the voters - which will feed inflation and hike prices further so they'll be no better off - the increased threat of social unrest, rising inflation and massive borrowing...we've seen this all before - and we know it will end badly.

You may disagree which is fine, but perhaps you could cheer me up by pointing out what in our current situation is going to prevent that happening?

Nice to see 2 posters with different opinions having a discussion in an adult way and not resorting to calling each other mental or similar, just how it should be 

Norpig wrote:Nice to see 2 posters with different opinions having a discussion in an adult way and not resorting to calling each other mental or similar, just how it should be 

Exactly how it should be. I think White and I see the same stuff albeit from a different angle and it's interesting to see another perspective.

No doubt Nigel will be back soon to ruin it though

Norpig wrote:Nice to see 2 posters with different opinions having a discussion in an adult way and not resorting to calling each other mental or similar, just how it should be 

Totally agree, but do you think you could say as much to our Natasha please?

He's got it in for me because I keep politely criticising Boris and the Tories.

I'm simply trying, in my own small way, to get as many people as possible on this little forum to vote for a more ethical party and leader in the next election.

Yes, it is nice to be able to make one’s point without being abused and long may it continue.

Lusty, I actually don’t disagree with anything you say. The fifties was probably the best decade to grow up in, full employment, respect for authority and the world improving after the war but as you say, it quickly changed in the 60’s and into the even more deplorable 70’s. My main disagreement with you is in the cause. Of course we were hugely in debt from the war loans and our infrastructure was old and decaying and you’re right that we didn’t invest in it as we should have but you seem to be neglecting the fact that we were paying towards the rebuilding of countries like Belgium, France and Germany who had been devastated and bankrupt by the war. Maybe after all it would have been financially better for us to have lost, though the consequences of that don’t bear thinking of.

I always liked Barbara Castle, other than for the things she imposed on drivers whilst Minister for Tpt, and again your right on her “in Place of Strife” attempts, although I doubt she would ever have been able to force them through as Maggie eventually did. You do though seem to have a one eyed view of events and linking them to Brexit all the time is getting tiresome really. I can’t in any way deny that at present Brexit looks a disaster but it is being hugely exaggerated I believe by other events, especially the pandemic, which may not be completely over yet by any means.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree on whether it will improve but one thing I suspect we might agree on is that BoJo isn’t the man to get us through it. As a Tory, I’m disgusted with what he’s doing, especially currently on both Brexit and our future relationship with the EU, where for me he’s too weak and should issue ultimatums and on Climate Change where he is rushing things through and setting targets that we have no realistic chance of achieving. Let science and engineering create the timescales and move on when the technology is there instead of trying to force people into it. I loathe the actions of Insulate Britain but I think they’re 100% right that insulating a property first is the best use of resources instead of trying to force bloody heat pumps on us when to me the technology seems to be going backwards, I’m even going to need a water cylinder for it again.

I won’t go off at a tangent into Climate Change, that’s a complete story in itself but the fact is, we are where we are, like it or not and we have to find a way through it together rather than become antagonistic, which I’m sure on here at least we won’t. ‍

We won't mate.

I know I bang on about Brexit but that's because I can't see anything at all positive to come out of it - just a whole long list of negatives which I believe will take us back to the dark ages of trouble and strife as discussed above. I am genuiinely worried for my kids future.

Always though air source heat pumps were a good idea in principle, but they run on electricity (so higher bills) and don't work efficiently when the outside air is cold - i.e. when you need them. Ground source heat pumps are very expensive and required major groundworks which is only possible if you have a garden to dig up. So for me it's Blojo grasping at the straws that are falling off a passing bandwagon.

Vince Dale has the right idea with green gas and biofuels as a way to go

wanderlust wrote:We won't mate.

I know I bang on about Brexit but that's because I can't see anything at all positive to come out of it - just a whole long list of negatives which I believe will take us back to the dark ages of trouble and strife as discussed above. I am genuiinely worried for my kids future.

Always though air source heat pumps were a good idea in principle, but they run on electricity (so higher bills) and don't work efficiently when the outside air is cold - i.e. when you need them. Ground source heat pumps are very expensive and required major groundworks which is only possible if you have a garden to dig up. So for me it's Blojo grasping at the straws that are falling off a passing bandwagon.

Vince Dale has the right idea with green gas and biofuels as a way to go

At last, something we can totally agree on lusty. I don’t like Vince Dale as a person but like you I totally agree with him on bio fuels and green gas. For over 100 years we’ve improved the ICE in both fuel efficiency and emissions and there is much further to go in future, yet BoJo decides to throw them under a bus with his 2030 target for new vehicles, which I don’t think will happen incidentally. Add in Green hydrogen and there are several options to electric.

On Brexit, I’m not even going to try to list what I see as advantages because it will only result in tit for tatting but like you I’m thinking of my kids and grandkids and see much better opportunities for them outside membership of the EU. I’m not in any way ignoring the current problems, or that breaking away isn’t difficult but I just don’t see a future for the EU in its present form but sadly, again using the Poland situation, they just completely refuse to amend or adjust rules in line with events. It’s this inflexibility that will be it’s downfall in my opinion and I’m glad we’re out of it before it does.

Just my opinion lusty and let’s hope we’re both around long enough to see who’s right!! 🥴