Coronavirus - will we survive?

Wondering now if there's going to be a food supply shortage soon? Probably not, but there are a few indicators.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Blah blah blah......

"At the Sage meeting on March 12, a moment now dubbed the “Domoscene conversion”, Cummings changed his mind. In this “penny-drop moment”, he realised he had helped set a course for catastrophe. Until this point, the rise in British infections had been below the European average. Now they were above it and on course to emulate Italy, where the picture was bleak. A minister said: “Seeing what was happening in Italy was the galvanising force across government.”
By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown. “Dominic himself had a conversion,” a senior Tory said. “He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’, to ‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”

Everyone changed their mind you nutjob not just Cummings - because originally the medical advise which was -

""Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s senior aide, became convinced that Britain would be better able to resist a lethal second wave of the disease next winter if Whitty’s prediction that 60% to 80% of the population became infected was right and the UK developed “herd immunity”.

Change to -

"The meeting that will change British society for a generation took place on the evening of Thursday, March 12. That was when the strategic advisory group of experts (Sage in Whitehall parlance), the government’s committee of scientists and medics, gathered to examine modelling from experts at Imperial College London and other institutions.
The results were shattering. A week earlier, councils had been warned to expect about 100,000 deaths from Covid-19. Now Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, and Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser, realised the estimates were wrong".




It's quite simple, the original prediction from the medical modelling on which the government policy was wrong.  Once it was fine tuned and current data used it led to the change in dealing with the virus.

You clearly see what you want to see to back up your thinking and disregard the rest of the facts which get in your way.

You can never face up to being wrong, ever, can you.

So where does it say that the Government's Chief strategist stopped making the Government's strategic decisions?

wanderlust wrote:So where does it say that the Government's Chief strategist stopped making the Government's strategic decisions?

It was never a POLITICAL decision it has always been a MEDICAL one.

If Cummings was all powerful and 'forced' the herd decision on the country then why once he realised the medical modelling prediction was wrong on the 12th March, then why did he not have the country shut down the next day?

"By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown. “Dominic himself had a conversion,” a senior Tory said. “He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’, to ‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”

Here we are ten days later and the country is still not shut down despite the numerous requests from all the experts to keep away from public gatherings and use strict social distancing.

I note you bragged about ignoring such advise too when you supposedly turned out for your fictional Under 70's football team the other day.

You’ve no idea who drove the herd immunity theory forward Sluffy. Lust’s (and many journalists) theory that Cummings took the advice and pushed it forward is perfectly valid.

How can we contain the spread when the government are still allowing flights from Iran, Italy and China?

Absolutely ludicrous.

karlypants wrote:How can we contain the spread when the government are still allowing flights from Iran, Italy and China?

Absolutely ludicrous.

Yes but those countries are repatriating Brits and the 400 trapped in Peru will be coming back soon - hopefully all will be quarantined.
I think that total lockdown will be coming soon - better late than never I suppose. But the reservists have been put on alert and Germany have clamped down on going out and "meetings of more than two people", the French had to have a form justifying a reason for leaving the house from a week ago, so I suspect lockdown coming our way.

T.R.O.Y wrote:You’ve no idea who drove the herd immunity theory forward Sluffy. Lust’s (and many journalists) theory that Cummings took the advice and pushed it forward is perfectly valid.

Well then IF Cummings was all powerful enough to have 'pushed' the herd immunity forward, then why hasn't he 'pushed' us into immediate lockdown from the 13th?

You and the journalists can't believe one thing and ignore the other just because it doesn't fit with what they want to imply.

No one is arguing though that the Medical Advisor recommended herd immunity and on looking at the newest model on the 12th realised that it was flawed and based on incorrect data.

One is factual, one is speculative at best.

I'll go with Medical Advice in respect of the country's population rather than some perceived political strategy to improve the governments chances at the polls which are all but five years away, whilst they sit on a 80 seat majority now!

Even you've got to admit that doesn't make any sense does it?

Had no problem on Sainsbury's this morning, but there's a maximum of three of any item.

boltonbonce wrote:Had no problem on Sainsbury's this morning, but there's a maximum of three of any item.

Was there any bog roll and did you do some distancing from other folk?

I go late at night to my local supermarket as there is hardly anyone there. I'm not going to get into a scrum for stuff with everyone else coughing on each other.

If I have to eat a can of baked beans from the selection that's left in store to protect myself better than so be it.

Sluffy wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:You’ve no idea who drove the herd immunity theory forward Sluffy. Lust’s (and many journalists) theory that Cummings took the advice and pushed it forward is perfectly valid.

Well then IF Cummings was all powerful enough to have 'pushed' the herd immunity forward, then why hasn't he 'pushed' us into immediate lockdown from the 13th?

You and the journalists can't believe one thing and ignore the other just because it doesn't fit with what they want to imply.

No one is arguing though that the Medical Advisor recommended herd immunity and on looking at the newest model on the 12th realised that it was flawed and based on incorrect data.

One is factual, one is speculative at best.

I'll go with Medical Advice in respect of the country's population rather than some perceived political strategy to improve the governments chances at the polls which are all but five years away, whilst they sit on a 80 seat majority now!

Even you've got to admit that doesn't make any sense does it?

No idea, but nobody has said Cummings wanted an immediate full lockdown - that's just how you've interpreted what's written. 

I posted it because it's an interesting article written by someone with very good connections into the cabinet. You could just take it at face value rather than feeling the need to apply your own theories to it and present them as facts (and anybody disagreeing as utter morons).

I'd say that the important issue to take from the article in yesterday's Sunday Times was Cummings' typically callous, rather brutal attitude.

 Not sure that Boris was comfortable with that. His usual demeanour involves gags, a smirk and a bumbling, oafish persona (eg tripwire stunt etc) and indicate a man who'd like to be popular. He's an optimistic cheerleader, seeking to lift the country's mood,  and looks distinctly ill-at-ease when he has to be deadly serious and lose that smirk. He seems to have aged before our eyes in recent days.
His hesitant delivery in these daily briefings is in stark contrast to the convincing fluency of those who stand beside him each tea-time.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:You’ve no idea who drove the herd immunity theory forward Sluffy. Lust’s (and many journalists) theory that Cummings took the advice and pushed it forward is perfectly valid.

Well then IF Cummings was all powerful enough to have 'pushed' the herd immunity forward, then why hasn't he 'pushed' us into immediate lockdown from the 13th?

You and the journalists can't believe one thing and ignore the other just because it doesn't fit with what they want to imply.

No one is arguing though that the Medical Advisor recommended herd immunity and on looking at the newest model on the 12th realised that it was flawed and based on incorrect data.

One is factual, one is speculative at best.

I'll go with Medical Advice in respect of the country's population rather than some perceived political strategy to improve the governments chances at the polls which are all but five years away, whilst they sit on a 80 seat majority now!

Even you've got to admit that doesn't make any sense does it?

No idea, but nobody has said Cummings wanted an immediate full lockdown - that's just how you've interpreted what's written. 

I posted it because it's an interesting article written by someone with very good connections into the cabinet. You could just take it at face value rather than feeling the need to apply your own theories to it and present them as facts (and anybody disagreeing as utter morons).

Ironically I am the one who is taking it at face value, others have read into it something that simply isn't there - they have interpreted what was written as being confirmation of some mythical hidden agenda of Cummings.

This is what the article said about Cummings on the 13th March -

"By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown. “Dominic himself had a conversion,” a senior Tory said. “He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’, to ‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”

If he was so powerful to have foisted the incorrect medical policy on the country in the first place (against the advice of the Chief Medical Advisor) it would seem logical to assume he would be equally as powerful to foist the one he now believes to be right without any hindrance when it became clear the previous one was based on an inaccurate model.

Ten days later we still haven't gone into lockdown - even knowing how quickly this thing spreads!

Seems we've been following the Medical Advise all along and not some Machiavellian plot by Cummings to ensure election success in five years time that some nutjob believes because he's never wrong about anything.

karlypants wrote:Hope you are doing well Mr. Pig!

 yes we are all ok mate, thanks for asking 

One of the people we work with sent something on whatsapp saying that NHS workers were being attacked for the ID badges 

I do hope thats just a rumour and its all bollocks but with the way people are acting in supermarkets at the moment you just never know.

karlypants wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:Had no problem on Sainsbury's this morning, but there's a maximum of three of any item.

Was there any bog roll and did you do some distancing from other folk?

I go late at night to my local supermarket as there is hardly anyone there. I'm not going to get into a scrum for stuff with everyone else coughing on each other.

If I have to eat a can of baked beans from the selection that's left in store to protect myself better than so be it.

Shop online KP. Plenty of toilet roll.

Sluffy wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:You’ve no idea who drove the herd immunity theory forward Sluffy. Lust’s (and many journalists) theory that Cummings took the advice and pushed it forward is perfectly valid.

Well then IF Cummings was all powerful enough to have 'pushed' the herd immunity forward, then why hasn't he 'pushed' us into immediate lockdown from the 13th?

You and the journalists can't believe one thing and ignore the other just because it doesn't fit with what they want to imply.

No one is arguing though that the Medical Advisor recommended herd immunity and on looking at the newest model on the 12th realised that it was flawed and based on incorrect data.

One is factual, one is speculative at best.

I'll go with Medical Advice in respect of the country's population rather than some perceived political strategy to improve the governments chances at the polls which are all but five years away, whilst they sit on a 80 seat majority now!

Even you've got to admit that doesn't make any sense does it?

No idea, but nobody has said Cummings wanted an immediate full lockdown - that's just how you've interpreted what's written. 

I posted it because it's an interesting article written by someone with very good connections into the cabinet. You could just take it at face value rather than feeling the need to apply your own theories to it and present them as facts (and anybody disagreeing as utter morons).

Ironically I am the one who is taking it at face value, others have read into it something that simply isn't there - they have interpreted what was written as being confirmation of some mythical hidden agenda of Cummings.

This is what the article said about Cummings on the 13th March -

"By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown. “Dominic himself had a conversion,” a senior Tory said. “He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’, to ‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”

If he was so powerful to have foisted the incorrect medical policy on the country in the first place (against the advice of the Chief Medical Advisor) it would seem logical to assume he would be equally as powerful to foist the one he now believes to be right without any hindrance when it became clear the previous one was based on an inaccurate model.

Ten days later we still haven't gone into lockdown - even knowing how quickly this thing spreads!

Seems we've been following the Medical Advise all along and not some Machiavellian plot by Cummings to ensure election success in five years time that some nutjob believes because he's never wrong about anything.

Look, if you don't agree that Cummings is driving things behind the scenes then that's fine. It's just a theory, however it is a popular one amongst people who are far better connected to the government than any of us - so i don't think calling Lust an 'Utter Moron' is fair. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

One thing we do know for certain is that two weeks were wasted pursuing a strategy that couldn't work and would have cost thousands more lives. The damage done by the delay to isolation could be massive. Once this is out the way why they chose this response will need to be examined.

boltonbonce wrote:

karlypants wrote:

boltonbonce wrote:Had no problem on Sainsbury's this morning, but there's a maximum of three of any item.

Was there any bog roll and did you do some distancing from other folk?

I go late at night to my local supermarket as there is hardly anyone there. I'm not going to get into a scrum for stuff with everyone else coughing on each other.

If I have to eat a can of baked beans from the selection that's left in store to protect myself better than so be it.

Shop online KP. Plenty of toilet roll.

Good idea, but by the time you get it, its probably too late. I heard some are no longer taking on new delivery customers, and others take up to 3 days to get their order.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:You’ve no idea who drove the herd immunity theory forward Sluffy. Lust’s (and many journalists) theory that Cummings took the advice and pushed it forward is perfectly valid.

Well then IF Cummings was all powerful enough to have 'pushed' the herd immunity forward, then why hasn't he 'pushed' us into immediate lockdown from the 13th?

You and the journalists can't believe one thing and ignore the other just because it doesn't fit with what they want to imply.

No one is arguing though that the Medical Advisor recommended herd immunity and on looking at the newest model on the 12th realised that it was flawed and based on incorrect data.

One is factual, one is speculative at best.

I'll go with Medical Advice in respect of the country's population rather than some perceived political strategy to improve the governments chances at the polls which are all but five years away, whilst they sit on a 80 seat majority now!

Even you've got to admit that doesn't make any sense does it?

No idea, but nobody has said Cummings wanted an immediate full lockdown - that's just how you've interpreted what's written. 

I posted it because it's an interesting article written by someone with very good connections into the cabinet. You could just take it at face value rather than feeling the need to apply your own theories to it and present them as facts (and anybody disagreeing as utter morons).

Ironically I am the one who is taking it at face value, others have read into it something that simply isn't there - they have interpreted what was written as being confirmation of some mythical hidden agenda of Cummings.

This is what the article said about Cummings on the 13th March -

"By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown. “Dominic himself had a conversion,” a senior Tory said. “He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’, to ‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”

If he was so powerful to have foisted the incorrect medical policy on the country in the first place (against the advice of the Chief Medical Advisor) it would seem logical to assume he would be equally as powerful to foist the one he now believes to be right without any hindrance when it became clear the previous one was based on an inaccurate model.

Ten days later we still haven't gone into lockdown - even knowing how quickly this thing spreads!

Seems we've been following the Medical Advise all along and not some Machiavellian plot by Cummings to ensure election success in five years time that some nutjob believes because he's never wrong about anything.

Look, if you don't agree that Cummings is driving things behind the scenes then that's fine. It's just a theory, however it is a popular one amongst people who are far better connected to the government than any of us - so i don't think calling Lust an 'Utter Moron' is fair. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

One thing we do know for certain is that two weeks were wasted pursuing a strategy that couldn't work and would have cost thousands more lives. The damage done by the delay to isolation could be massive. Once this is out the way why they chose this response will need to be examined.

You know, it didn't take long for the bitching to start on here did it? 

Literally the point of a forum.

T.R.O.Y wrote:Literally the point of a forum.