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Coronavirus - will we survive?

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121Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Jul 20 2020, 01:02

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Sluffy wrote:

It is not clear why the contacts provided were not able to be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53463068

I wonder if it might be to do with this?

There have been suggestions that sufficient translation support is not always available...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53006938

Just a thought.
About 25 years ago I agreed to do some housing research in Accrington for the Council and it turned out to be one of the most interesting experiences of my life. Basically the Asian community on the Blackburn side of the town were almost all descended from people from the same village who came over to do textile work 5 generations i.e >100 years ago. With a tradition of buying up adjacent terraced houses and knocking them through so that the oldest child could live with and look after their parents, the Council wanted to know what kind of houses they should build (older generation wanted big family houses, young 'uns wanted small houses so they didn't have to live with their parents Smile )
I was getting nowhere until I went to the mosque and explained what I was doing and how it would benefit the community to the Imam - who then put the word around and it ended up with community members practically dragging me in off the street to interview them. I was made very welcome.
Some communities are understandably suspicious of people asking them for information - but if it's done the right way they can be incredibly helpful.
Language wasn't especially a problem, but cultural understanding was a huge issue so I'd suggest approaching community leaders in the first instance would be the best way forward.

122Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Jul 20 2020, 02:02

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@Sluffy wrote:

It is not clear why the contacts provided were not able to be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53463068

I wonder if it might be to do with this?

There have been suggestions that sufficient translation support is not always available...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53006938

Just a thought.
About 25 years ago I agreed to do some housing research in Accrington for the Council and it turned out to be one of the most interesting experiences of my life. Basically the Asian community on the Blackburn side of the town were almost all descended from people from the same village who came over to do textile work 5 generations i.e >100 years ago. With a tradition of buying up adjacent terraced houses and knocking them through so that the oldest child could live with and look after their parents, the Council wanted to know what kind of houses they should build (older generation wanted big family houses, young 'uns wanted small houses so they didn't have to live with their parents Smile )
I was getting nowhere until I went to the mosque and explained what I was doing and how it would benefit the community to the Imam - who then put the word around and it ended up with community members practically dragging me in off the street to interview them. I was made very welcome.
Some communities are understandably suspicious of people asking them for information - but if it's done the right way they can be incredibly helpful.
Language wasn't especially a problem, but cultural understanding was a huge issue so I'd suggest approaching community leaders in the first instance would be the best way forward.

Let me tell you a story, are you sitting comfortably, then I'll begin.

Once upon a time in many make believe places populated by those of a certain culture the following may or may not happen.

Community leaders are either the religious leaders or the 'gangsters'.

The religious leaders control the politicians (they tell the 'faithful' who to vote for at election time).

The 'gangsters' exploit the community - in Leicester they run the illegal sweatshops for instance .  They also are the 'landlords' and overcrowd their properties with 'illegals' into this country.  

The council (often of a certain political leaning) and the police know what goes on but seldom do much about it because the elected councillors put there by those who control the faithful are told to turn a blind eye to what their brothers are doing, who shall we say return the favour of doing so in other ways - a kind of like you scratch my back I'll scratch yours, sort of thing.  The police are too wary (read that as afraid) of being accused of racism (see the Rochdale child sex abuse report for instance in particular in respect of Maggie Oliver and Mary Rowbotham).

So you get illegals (many who speak no English) in crowded houses, working in sweatshops for much less than minimum wage, who catch the virus and invariably will pass it on to others - it being unavoidable really.

Those who end up sick won't say a word for fear of losing their house/job/putting their family at risk (being thrown out on to the street for instance and risk being deported).  Even those such as say a gangster who gets the virus and is a uk citizen (or has indefinite leave to stay) won't tell anyone about the people crowded in their rented properties they own or their sweatshop workers they exploit.

Is it any wonder then that 8 out of the top 10 cases per 100,000 population over the last seven day average are

Leicester
Blackburn
Oadby (Leicester suburb)
Rochdale
Bradford
Pendle
Luton
Kirklees (Huddersfield)

Eden and Northampton being they other two, with Eden (a very small authority) having a local spike - not sure what problem Northampton is having though?

Anyway no doubt everything will soon be sorted and everyone will all live happily ever after.

Of course this is only a story and things aren't like this in real life so no need to have any nightmares!


I might have overstated things a bit (in my story) but I wonder if things like this could and do happen in real life???

Nah it couldn't possibly could it?

123Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Jul 20 2020, 11:14

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
Actually, Sluffy I found your story almost factual, having heard, and read,over the years, some of the things you mention.

124Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Jul 20 2020, 12:28

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@gloswhite wrote:Actually, Sluffy I found your story almost factual, having heard, and read,over the years, some of the things you mention.

It does indeed go on - think why did Bolton Council pay that money to the dodgy Asian owned company Asons???

https://forum.boltonnuts.co.uk/t20736-asons-law-firm-boss-cannot-work-as-a-solicitor-and-family-must-pay-250000

Tbh I've never experienced first hand any of the 'story' I wrote but I know several who have.

Remember the two rules of politics/power - first seize it, then hold on to it.

In Asian communities the power is in the religion and its leaders 'influence' the followers how to vote. Obviously some in the community are criminals businessmen but they still live within the culture and a kind of like 'if you do me a favour I'll do you one back' exists.

Obviously not every town or city with large Asian influence are like that but examples such as Asons and how the 'good guys' like the police are constrained in being able to act (see the Rochdale child sex case for instance) are there to be found if you know where to look.

Dodgy dealings are not the sole domain of the Asian community though and to balance things a little the only person I actually knew who turned out to be corrupt was this bloke and he was the council's chief fraud officer!!!

I was shocked when I heard the news - he certainly had me fooled although to be fair to me I only knew him socially at work and not professionally.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2551756/Councils-fraud-manager-swindled-50-000-caught-wife-took-revenge-reporting-bosses-having-affair.html



125Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Jul 20 2020, 15:17

BoltonTillIDie

BoltonTillIDie
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Its just been reported that the Oxford University COVID vaccine induces an immune response, which is great news.  Obviously a lot more tests are required, but gives us hope.

A coronavirus vaccine being developed by scientists at the University of Oxford induces an immune response to the disease, the first phase of human trials has revealed.

Doses of the vaccine, called AZD1222, were given to 1,077 healthy adults aged between 18 and 55 in five UK hospitals in April and May as part of the phase one clinical trial for the vaccine being developed by AstraZeneca and scientists at the University of Oxford..

The results - published in the Lancet journal on Monday - show they induced strong antibody and T-cell immune responses for up to 56 days after they were given.

T-cells are crucial for maintaining protection against the virus for years.

Scientists found the response could be even greater after a second dose of the vaccine.

Compared to a control group, who were given a meningitis vaccine, the COVID vaccine caused minor side effects more frequently, but those could be reduced by taking paracetamol. There were no serious adverse effects from the vaccine, the report said.

Professor Andrew Pollard, who is leading the study at the University of Oxford, said: "The immune system has two ways of finding and attacking pathogens - antibody and T cell responses.

"This vaccine is intended to induce both, so it can attack the virus when it's circulating in the body, as well as attacking infected cells.

"We hope this means the immune system will remember the virus, so that our vaccine will protect people for an extended period.

"However, we need more research before we can confirm the vaccine effectively protects against SARS-CoV-2 infection, and for how long any protection lasts."

Professor Sarah Gilbert, co-author of the study, said: "There is still much work to be done before we can confirm if our vaccine will help manage the COVID-19 pandemic, but these early results hold promise.

"As well as continuing to test our vaccine in phase 3 trials, we need to learn more about the virus - for example, we still do not know how strong an immune response we need to provoke to effectively protect against SARS-CoV-2 infection.

"If our vaccine is effective, it is a promising option as these types of vaccine can be manufactured at large scale."

Although these results are from phase one of the trials, phase two testing is already under way in the UK and phase three testing on volunteers in Brazil is also taking place.

It comes after the UK government secured early access to 90 million COVID-19 vaccine doses - including 30 million of one being developed by BioNTech and Pfizer - through partnerships with pharmaceutical companies.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-oxford-university-vaccine-induces-immune-response-first-phase-of-human-trials-shows-12032287

126Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 21 2020, 12:07

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@BoltonTillIDie wrote:Its just been reported that the Oxford University COVID vaccine induces an immune response, which is great news.  Obviously a lot more tests are required, but gives us hope.

A coronavirus vaccine being developed by scientists at the University of Oxford induces an immune response to the disease, the first phase of human trials has revealed.

Doses of the vaccine, called AZD1222, were given to 1,077 healthy adults aged between 18 and 55 in five UK hospitals in April and May as part of the phase one clinical trial for the vaccine being developed by AstraZeneca and scientists at the University of Oxford..

The results - published in the Lancet journal on Monday - show they induced strong antibody and T-cell immune responses for up to 56 days after they were given.

T-cells are crucial for maintaining protection against the virus for years.

Scientists found the response could be even greater after a second dose of the vaccine.

Compared to a control group, who were given a meningitis vaccine, the COVID vaccine caused minor side effects more frequently, but those could be reduced by taking paracetamol. There were no serious adverse effects from the vaccine, the report said.

Professor Andrew Pollard, who is leading the study at the University of Oxford, said: "The immune system has two ways of finding and attacking pathogens - antibody and T cell responses.

"This vaccine is intended to induce both, so it can attack the virus when it's circulating in the body, as well as attacking infected cells.

"We hope this means the immune system will remember the virus, so that our vaccine will protect people for an extended period.

"However, we need more research before we can confirm the vaccine effectively protects against SARS-CoV-2 infection, and for how long any protection lasts."

Professor Sarah Gilbert, co-author of the study, said: "There is still much work to be done before we can confirm if our vaccine will help manage the COVID-19 pandemic, but these early results hold promise.

"As well as continuing to test our vaccine in phase 3 trials, we need to learn more about the virus - for example, we still do not know how strong an immune response we need to provoke to effectively protect against SARS-CoV-2 infection.

"If our vaccine is effective, it is a promising option as these types of vaccine can be manufactured at large scale."

Although these results are from phase one of the trials, phase two testing is already under way in the UK and phase three testing on volunteers in Brazil is also taking place.

It comes after the UK government secured early access to 90 million COVID-19 vaccine doses - including 30 million of one being developed by BioNTech and Pfizer - through partnerships with pharmaceutical companies.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-oxford-university-vaccine-induces-immune-response-first-phase-of-human-trials-shows-12032287
I read that a further 10k people around the world have already been given the vaccine so phase 2 is well under way and if successful mass production will be under way by December. Praying it works as it would be an absolute blessing.
Side effects are manageable and can be ameliorated with either aspirin or paracetamol (one or the other)

127Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 21 2020, 13:55

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

128Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Thu Jul 23 2020, 11:23

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

129Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Thu Jul 23 2020, 11:32

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Just seen this and I hope the Police intervene.

Absolutely disgusting at the best of times and with the bloody virus going round it's a good job the bus driver has a perspex screen for safety!

It just beggars belief she thinks she has a right to act like that.

130Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Thu Jul 23 2020, 12:04

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@karlypants wrote:

Just seen this and I hope the Police intervene.

Absolutely disgusting at the best of times and with the bloody virus going round it's a good job the bus driver has a perspex screen for safety!

It just beggars belief she thinks she has a right to act like that.

Totally agree she's bang out of order and should be nicked but...the practice of not giving change for e.g. a £20 note for a £2 fare is tantamount to robbery UNLESS they publish a list of fares and a change machine at every bus stop.
Do buses accept plastic these days?

131Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Thu Jul 23 2020, 13:11

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Most bus companies take cards now and Stagecoach said recently that due to Covid if you use cash it has to be the correct fare and they won't give change.

132Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Thu Jul 23 2020, 14:33

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@Norpig wrote:Most bus companies take cards now and Stagecoach said recently that due to Covid if you use cash it has to be the correct fare and they won't give change.
It's a sensible policy, but you have to let people know what the correct fare actually is. Did they put up a tariff sheet in every bus stop? 
Even then, if you don't happen to have the right money or a card what are customers supposed to do?

I'm not in any way condoning the woman's behaviour - it's just that it is the poorest members of society who are least likely to have a card and they are also the ones who would be most affected by not being given their change.

133Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Fri Jul 24 2020, 18:46

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
I'm trying to work out where the deaths are occurring with the virus?

Sounds a bit macabre of me but I'm trying to understand what is happening in general.

On the face of it we are still having hundreds of people testing positive per day (770 today) and triple figures dying most days (123) but hardly anyone dying in hospital -

England reports 16 more deaths
A further 16 people who tested positive for coronavirus have died in hospital, NHS England said.

14:50
No new deaths in Scotland, Wales and NI
Scotland has recorded another 20 infections in the last 24 hours, according to the latest figures.

A total of 278 people with confirmed cases of Covid-19 remain in hospital, with two in intensive care. But there have been no new deaths, leaving the total number of people who have died after testing positive for the virus at 2,491.

Wales reported 45 new cases. Its death toll remains at 1,548, with no new fatalities in the last 24 hours.

Northern Ireland’s Department of Health said 15 more cases had been detected but no new deaths were reported.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-53522389

So in England, Scotland, Wales and NI only 16 of the 123 deaths reported today happened in hospital, so were did the other 107 happen?

To my mind if you get really ill with the virus then they rush you into hospital, so I'm assuming not many would have passed away at home?  So that would leave hospices and care homes as the logical places for them to happen?

We know there is spare capacity in hospitals so there doesn't seem much logic moving Covid patients to hospices or care homes so my guess is that many of the deaths are occurring naturally and only discovered to be Covid when being tested at death?

I guess what I am trying to get at is that it still looks to me that the bulk of those dying from the virus are the old many with other health issues and living in care homes and hospices rather than people catching it from the illegal raves and rammed packed beaches, etc.


It also interesting to note the numbers in hospital in Scotland as I can't seem to find the numbers of hospital admissions for Covid, which to my mind is a key indicator as to what is truly going on out there.

The population of Scotland seems to be about 5.5m

https://www.ukpopulation.org/scotland-population/#:~:text=Based%20on%20our%20research%2C%20Scotland,data%20for%20the%20same%20period.

300 of them in hospital (with only two in intensive care) is miniscule in comparison about 0.00545% if I've done the sums right.

If we say the population of the UK is apparently 68m...

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/uk-population/#:~:text=the%20United%20Kingdom%202020%20population,(and%20dependencies)%20by%20population.

...and we remove 5.5m for Scotland then multiply that amount by 0.00545% then that comes to 3,406 people in hospital in England and Wales.

Or roughly 3,700 combined for all the UK


Now if we think we have something like that figure of new cases per week - then that suggest a very quick weekly turnover in and out of hospital or that more likely that vast majority don't need hospital care and those that do are in for longer than a week or more.

So my reasoning is that the deaths are not really resulting from those infected in the community, even if it leads to being hospitalised but the vast majority are being found after death from tests being done then who were in the care homes and hospices?

If so good news for the vast bulk of us but not so good for the many old and frail in care homes still.

The chances are (as it stands right now) is that most of us won't be coming into contact with anyone in the virus (the current national seven day average is around just 7.5 people having tested positive per 100,000 and even if we were to say for every positive case there are 4 more with no symptoms out in the community, then that still only gives around 40 out of every 100,000 currently carrying the virus (currently being a relative in terms of the time lag in information and how long people are infectious whilst in the community).

Fwiw I went down to the pub a few nights ago for the first time since lockdown, very enjoyable too!

134Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Fri Jul 24 2020, 20:46

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Covid-19 cases are increasing 10 fold in the Asian/Muslim community.

135Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Fri Jul 24 2020, 22:00

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Boggersbelief wrote:Covid-19 cases are increasing 10 fold in the Asian/Muslim community.

I'd be interested to see the facts if they are.

It's fairly obvious that most of the areas that currently have the new cases over the last seven day average have a large Asian community within them

1 Blackburn - 87 cases per 100,000
2 Oadby (Leicester suburb) - 73
3 Leicester - 69
4 Hyndburn (Accrington) - 55
5 Rochdale - 49
6 Pendle - 43
7 Bradford - 42
8 Eden (Lake District) - 40 (Not sure what the issue is here - local spike perhaps - such as farm or a warehouse?)
9 Oldham - 38
10 Sandwell (West Brom) - 31
11 Luton - 29
12 Trafford (Stretford) - 26
13 Kirklees (Huddersfield) - 26
14 Calderdale (Halifax) - 25
15 Northampton - 23

Next is Eastbourne, Peterborough then Corby.

So there clearly is an issue but also there are other heavily Asian areas with little issue at all, Slough for instance is currently in 248th position (out of 315) with a rate of 2 per 100,000.

Don't know why that is so unless there is a social/cultural difference in the sense that 'city' centric Asian communities are somehow more 'sophisticated/educated/socially aware/whatever it is, than town centric Asians who somehow haven't seemed to take the virus as seriously as their city based cousins?

The average for England as gone up from 6.9 on the 16th of this month to 7.7 today which seems mainly to be because of the rise in positive tests in the Leicester, Blackburn and the other top dozen or so areas in the list above.

Generally speaking outside of the top 80 or so authorities everybody else is below the national average with Bolton currently in 30th place on 15.4 per 100,000.

(Remember though that the totals show 'positive tests' and you probably need to think three or four times that number for those currently infected but with no symptoms).

Stay safe everybody obviously.

136Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sat Jul 25 2020, 12:11

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Is it possible that the areas which now have the highest incidence were at first effectively protected from the initial surge by cultural isolation - and are merely late to the party?

Aren't these areas experiencing similar numbers to major population areas at the peak of the virus a couple of months ago? They certainly don't seem to be much higher. 

It's just a thought and I may well be wrong but if it is the case, rural towns and villages that have largely got away with it so far may face mini-surges in the future when covid finally comes to town.

137Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sat Jul 25 2020, 13:50

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:Is it possible that the areas which now have the highest incidence were at first effectively protected from the initial surge by cultural isolation - and are merely late to the party?

Aren't these areas experiencing similar numbers to major population areas at the peak of the virus a couple of months ago? They certainly don't seem to be much higher. 

It's just a thought and I may well be wrong but if it is the case, rural towns and villages that have largely got away with it so far may face mini-surges in the future when covid finally comes to town.

Cultural isolation?

I doubt it.

I think it probably goes something like this -

London being a world global hub was the first place the virus got a hold of and spread.

Those effected at that time were the London Boroughs and commuter belt towns.

Those areas triggered the lockdown, with London deemed to be 2 weeks in front of everybody else in having the virus - which is I thing an important point to what follows.

During lockdown the facts emerge that basically the virus kills the old and sick but everybody else is more or less ok.  

People start to break lockdown across the country, start to ignore social distancing and more or less start to carry on as normal.  London and surrounding authorities do likewise but having experienced the brunt of the virus and deaths so far are a little bit more circumspect about social distancing, masks, etc.

In the middle of the lockdown a large number of people are brought home from India and Pakistan where the virus is circulating.  

Others have been repatriated sooner from all corners of the world and had therefore been in lockdown longer so less chance of the virus spreading if they had caught it.

It takes a couple of weeks from catching it to falling ill, so those arriving from India and Pakistan and passing on the virus in their households for others to catch (many presumably unknowingly and not having any symptoms) are only becoming ill three, four, five weeks later, around the time many people have given up on the lockdown and seeing their family and friends in other households, doing religious group celebrations, working and that's how I think the virus has taken hold in these northern/midland places shown on the list at current time.

Why didn't the same 'bounce' happen in London and commuter belt too?

Well it already had the 'peak' of the virus/deaths already and everybody had become more cautious about it.  It's likely the family and the community were a bit more clued up about it, knew people who had had it and even some who had died from it - for instance I personally know one person who had it (although she was not an Asian) and knew of one person who died (who was).  I know that's not scientific in anyway but I bet most outside of the London area reading this don't know of any.

I don't think the spread of the virus in the towns above have been done deliberately in any way at all but more a consequence of events mixed in with culture and sprinkled with a bit of unwillingness to accept the need for social distancing.

As I tried to explain earlier yesterday the virus isn't ripping through the country generally, a hand full of positive results or five or six days of little no no infections can send authorities catapulting up and down the list of infections per 100,000 people, for instance Slough was at 54th on that list with a rate of 8.7 (with 13 positives in the seven day period) and on Thursday 16th a week later on Thursday 23rd at 240th with a rate of 2.0 with just 3 positives - so in Sloughs case just 10 people out of 100,000 can cause a nearly 200 place drop in the rankings - and no doubt 10 or more positives in the next seven day period will send it up the 'league table' by a similar amount.

The 'tables' as such are meaningless if such a very small number can effect them so dramatically the key indicator is the rate per 100,000 and which authorities are growing dramatically and why is that so?

In most of the top cases for the last month or so the problem seems to be in the Asian communities of northern and midland towns and cities and that indicates the issue is in how go about their lives.

An interesting counterpoint is this article today -

Did Bournemouth beach crowds spread coronavirus?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53519668

Seems on the face of things it didn't.

There's no rights and wrongs, it's just a learning through experience process.

It does seem though that some practises both social and cultural may or may not have a direct effect on the spread, whilst some - sweat shops in Leicester, 250 people inside a mosque for a funeral seem to most definitely do.

Many people are angry with the governments handling but the reality is that we are all grown ups, if we kept to lockdown, self isolate when returning from abroad, wear masks, keep to social distancing and don't take the piss generally we'd all be in a better place than where we are but many people simply don't seem to do that in this country.

138Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sat Jul 25 2020, 15:41

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
...or you could have just said "I don't think so" Smile

139Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Jul 26 2020, 12:42

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Have to laugh at this...

Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 31192054-8559969-image-a-32_1595703155458

Err...the Coronavirus is still going around and you decide to take a holiday.

The usual bollocks of blaming everyone else but themselves the stupid dicks!:facepalm:

140Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Jul 26 2020, 13:32

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Don't they have to do the quarantine in the UK when they get back? Providing they aren't flying with TUI who have cancelled flights as a result of the Government's shock announcement they should be fine re getting back.

I think UK employers have been put into a difficult position if returnees aren't able to work from home.  Do you sack them?

This arbitrary Government decision this will probably stop anyone booking a holiday anywhere as Spain has lower deaths than the UK - although that may be because they do more testing than we do - and the recent upsurge is the north east above Barcelona rather than the costas - so nobody can have confidence that they won't do the same for any destination.

141Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Sun Jul 26 2020, 13:50

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:Don't they have to do the quarantine in the UK when they get back? Providing they aren't flying with TUI who have cancelled flights as a result of the Government's shock announcement they should be fine re getting back.

I think UK employers have been put into a difficult position if returnees aren't able to work from home.  Do you sack them?

This arbitrary Government decision this will probably stop anyone booking a holiday anywhere as Spain has lower deaths than the UK - although that may be because they do more testing than we do - and the recent upsurge is the north east above Barcelona rather than the costas - so nobody can have confidence that they won't do the same for any destination.

Think you are getting your wires crossed a bit, as it's more to do with the virus in the community than anything to do with death rates???

I read somewhere on the BBC some days back that the rate per 100,000 population was 28 and on an upwards trend - ours currently is just under 8.

To put that into some context 28 per 100,000 would put it on the list of authorities in around 11th place (out of 315) and in front of the likes of Luton and Oxford.

I think the fear is that the virus might already have started to have been spreading in the Costas (and we won't find out about it for at least a week or more before people start to fall ill) and that our party loving youngsters may be catching it and bringing it back with them.

Can anyone really see all these youngsters staying in for two weeks in isolation when they get back - me neither - hence the urgent action taken I suspect.

Nobody will get sacked for having to spend two weeks off work as it wasn't their fault but they may well not be paid for those two weeks.

142Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Mon Jul 27 2020, 21:33

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@Sluffy wrote:
@Boggersbelief wrote:Covid-19 cases are increasing 10 fold in the Asian/Muslim community.

I'd be interested to see the facts if they are.

It's fairly obvious that most of the areas that currently have the new cases over the last seven day average have a large Asian community within them

1 Blackburn - 87 cases per 100,000
2 Oadby (Leicester suburb) - 73
3 Leicester - 69
4 Hyndburn (Accrington) - 55
5 Rochdale - 49
6 Pendle - 43
7 Bradford - 42
8 Eden (Lake District) - 40 (Not sure what the issue is here - local spike perhaps - such as farm or a warehouse?)
9 Oldham - 38
10 Sandwell (West Brom) - 31
11 Luton - 29
12 Trafford (Stretford) - 26
13 Kirklees (Huddersfield) - 26
14 Calderdale (Halifax) - 25
15 Northampton - 23

Next is Eastbourne, Peterborough then Corby.


Is it any wonder???

143Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 28 2020, 11:38

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
That looks like a ghost town compared to the pubs on a Saturday night since they re-opened. And then there's this sort of nonsense...
Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 0_BRITAIN-HEALTH-VIRUS-EUROPE-WEATHER-HEATWAVE
Not sure what point you are trying to make but it comes across as racist bigotry.

144Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 28 2020, 11:45

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
My mate's been in London for the last couple of months on a contract to erect temporary mortuaries for the anticipated next wave. As far as I can gather they consist of unused warehouses with a load of stud walling. When pressed he said he wasn't supposed to talk about it - not sure why.

145Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 28 2020, 12:10

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson
Its so the insecure people of this nation don't get upset. If they did know, it would probably bring home the situation were in, especially  for the thick bastards who remain oblivious.

146Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 28 2020, 12:39

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
That looks like a ghost town compared to the pubs on a Saturday night since they re-opened. And then there's this sort of nonsense...
Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 0_BRITAIN-HEALTH-VIRUS-EUROPE-WEATHER-HEATWAVE
Not sure what point you are trying to make but it comes across as racist bigotry.

Well for a start they are not only the elected leaders of their council but also prominent members of the Asian community.

Luton has a diverse ethnic mix, with a significant population of Asian descent, mainly Pakistani 29,353 (14.4%) and Bangladeshi 13,606 (6.7%).[59] The latter two also make up most of the Muslim religious population in Luton, which is the third highest for a town or city in England by proportion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luton#Ethnicity

What are the risks of Covid to Asians?

Why are more people from BAME backgrounds dying from coronavirus?

Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 _112111478_bame_community-nc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52219070

As for your racist bigotry remark aimed at me, if I am then I must hide it very well as at one time I worked in a group were I was the only white person in it for eight years and on another occasion I was the only white person invited to a full Muslim wedding (that of my best mate) that continued over three days!

I'm not stupid and I know your behaviour on here to well to know that you've deliberately posted what you have as your small minded and petty attempt to get your own back at me because I've previously rebuked you over the homophobic post you made.

So do jog on.

147Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 28 2020, 12:45

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
@gloswhite wrote:Its so the insecure people of this nation don't get upset. If they did know, it would probably bring home the situation were in, especially  for the thick bastards who remain oblivious.
Another round of panic buying and hoarding?
The further rise of USA style conspiracy theory leading to attacks on mask wearers?

I guess that in this day and age the truth isn't readily accepted as reasons to believe have been completely undermined.

Although it would be ironic if this Government, who are only in power because they conned the people in the first place, are not believed.

148Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 28 2020, 13:52

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:
@gloswhite wrote:Its so the insecure people of this nation don't get upset. If they did know, it would probably bring home the situation were in, especially  for the thick bastards who remain oblivious.
Another round of panic buying and hoarding?
The further rise of USA style conspiracy theory leading to attacks on mask wearers?

I guess that in this day and age the truth isn't readily accepted as reasons to believe have been completely undermined.

Although it would be ironic if this Government, who are only in power because they conned the people in the first place, are not believed.

I see you've been reading and more to the point believing, social media again!

The Conservatives win in the last General Election had everything to do with Labour committing political suicide under Corbyn and very little to do with whatever it is you think they 'conned' people with?

The facts simply are that the Conservative vote share was more or less identical to that of the 2017 GE and a massive 1 in 5 (20%) of Labour voters from 2017 voting for some other party other than Labour just two years later!!!

Change in vote share
Party 2017 2019 Change
Conservative Party 42.4% 43.6% +1.2
Labour Party      40.0% 32.1% −7.8
Liberal Democrats 7.4% 11.5% +4.2
Scottish National 3.0% 3.9% +0.9
Green Party        1.6% 2.7% +1.1
Brexit Party       N/A 2.0% +2.0
Other(s)                5.6% 4.1% -1.5
Total %                100.0 100.0 –

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_breakdown_of_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election

The government might well be unpopular but they were, by a distance, the 'least' unpopular of the two realistic choices people had to vote for - and that was because of even lifelong Labour voters found Corbyn and his policies to be totally unbelievable!

149Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 28 2020, 16:02

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I don't know why you go to so much trouble to point out that the Tories won and Labour shot themselves in the foot. We know. We were there.
But it is my personal belief based on the Governments own figures, the finally released Russia report, the mass sacking of dissenters, the testimony of those who were present during the Leave campaign and a wide range of other published reputable sources that they were elected in 2019 on a "Get Brexit Done" platform which tapped into post-referendum anxiety on both sides that split the Labour vote and attracted both leave and remain voters who were fed up with the Brexit autopsy. And it really was a single issue election.
Our undemocratic first past the post electoral system ensured that without an effective opposition there was never going to be any other winner who could then plough on with their minority mandate.

I would add that a lot of folk who defected to the Tories in order to - in their minds- put an end to the Brexit debacle, actually believed the could negotiate a deal beneficial to Britain. Presumably they managed to suspend their mistrust of Boris and his cronies in some sort of blind hope that it wasn't just smoke, mirrors and bluster.

We know how well that's going - as reflected in the bookie's odds on a Labour win in the next election - and to get a working majority - which over the last few months have come in from absolutely nowhere to evens on William Hill and 23/20 on most others. Only one bookie has them at 6/5 if you fancy a flutter?

150Coronavirus - will we survive? - Page 5 Empty Re: Coronavirus - will we survive? on Tue Jul 28 2020, 16:51

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
@wanderlust wrote:I don't know why you go to so much trouble to point out that the Tories won and Labour shot themselves in the foot. We know. We were there.
But it is my personal belief based on the Governments own figures, the finally released Russia report, the mass sacking of dissenters, the testimony of those who were present during the Leave campaign and a wide range of other published reputable sources that they were elected in 2019 on a "Get Brexit Done" platform which tapped into post-referendum anxiety on both sides that split the Labour vote and attracted both leave and remain voters who were fed up with the Brexit autopsy. And it really was a single issue election.
Our undemocratic first past the post electoral system ensured that without an effective opposition there was never going to be any other winner who could then plough on with their minority mandate.

I would add that a lot of folk who defected to the Tories in order to - in their minds- put an end to the Brexit debacle, actually believed the could negotiate a deal beneficial to Britain. Presumably they managed to suspend their mistrust of Boris and his cronies in some sort of blind hope that it wasn't just smoke, mirrors and bluster.

We know how well that's going - as reflected in the bookie's odds on a Labour win in the next election - and to get a working majority - which over the last few months have come in from absolutely nowhere to evens on William Hill and 23/20 on most others. Only one bookie has them at 6/5 if you fancy a flutter?

A weeks a long time in politics they say, a lot can happen between now and 2024.

As you know people voted for Brexit in the referendum - you did yourself.

Since then the country has had three more national votes, the GE in 2017, and the Euro's (which the Brexit party easily won) and the GE where Labour imploded.

At no time anybody said any other than 'Brexit means Brexit' the votes were not conditional on what terms on our exit with the EU would take and a 'hard' Brexit was always an option on the table.

You seem to have it fixed in your mind that you've been cheated in some way because the Brexit you wanted has not materialised and therefore that must be someone else's fault.

It isn't.

In simple terms we had a divorce and whilst you might have thought we would still keep the house, the car and your business (controls on immigration, applying our own laws and still having all the benefits from the EU as we have had) the reality is completely different and her lawyers have done their best for the ex and quite rightly so.

We've made our bed, nobody in the EU wanted us to leave but we voted to do so and quite frankly have voted three more times since then to do so as well.

Although our bed is made there is still some time before we have to lay in it and there may yet be some progress with the negotiations to everyone's mutual benefit but if whether it ends up to be a comfy bed or a rock hard one, it is the only bed we have to sleep in and we simply have to come to terms with that.

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