Coronavirus - will we survive?

But (assuming they are true) what have his remarks gained?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:You putting QED on the end of your posts doesn’t mean you’ve proved anything (except that you’re a bit pretentious).

You have a theory as to why this is happening, and that is all. Your inability to separate fact from theory is what led you so far astray on Anderson - and probably countless other topics over the years.

Whitaker’s remarks are inflammatory - and if he’s going to make them he needs to be 100% sure they’re correct - and there is no way of him doing that with the facts available to him.

Argue all you like, I’m sure you will. But you’re trying to claim theories are facts and it’s not something you’re ever going to win - you’re heavily out voted on this.

Hahaha!

Heavily out voted...

Yeah right, what vote is this even???

Hancock has stated that the virus is being spread and the lockdown in the north because of it, is because of transmission via family and friends - and say what you want but clearly that couldn't be happening if social distancing rules were being followed.

I know enough about political governance to know Hancock (who seems to be the one leading this as the day to day public face of the government) would have been briefed about these facts and Conservative MP's in the 'lockdown' areas would have been prewarned and informed before it took place.

Whether you like it/believe it or not Whittaker would have been briefed with the 'whys' and 'when's' to deal with the arising queries of his constituents.

He certainly would have been briefed before his radio and TV interviews he made yesterday.

Also Calderdale Council would have been in receipt of ongoing details direct from Trace and Track which would also show where the new cases were occurring and how the spread was happening and Whittaker would have had access/been briefed to the information by that means as well.

As for throwing in the reference to Ken Anderson as an attempt to divert me from the above, well that's a bit TOO obvious and we've dealt with it many times before anyway.

You are either completely in denial about this or trying to stoke up yet another spurious argument yet again.

I think he would have directed peoples thoughts as to not so much who the 'culprits' are, but more of what behaviour should be stopped. Much like those idiots shown on the beaches down south.
Lets be honest TROY, this whole Covid business has been a complete bag of spanners in just about every aspect, and I don't mean only the government. After lagging behind Europe, we are now trying to maintain what would currently appear to be a better stance, slightly, than them, as their cases increase. it won't last, and everything will go to rat shit very quickly. Whether decisions are made slowly, or quickly, there are always people who say it is the wrong thing. Sometimes we just have to get on with things, and forget we're all individuals to be pandered to.

gloswhite wrote:I think he would have directed peoples thoughts as to not so much who the 'culprits' are, but more of what behaviour should be stopped. Much like those idiots shown on the beaches down south.
Lets be honest TROY, this whole Covid business has been a complete bag of spanners in just about every aspect, and I don't mean only the government. After lagging behind Europe, we are now trying to maintain what would currently appear to be a better stance, slightly, than them, as their cases increase. it won't last, and everything will go to rat shit very quickly. Whether decisions are made slowly, or quickly, there are always people who say it is the wrong thing. Sometimes we just have to get on with things, and forget we're all individuals to be pandered to.

Agree with pretty much all of that mate.

Sluffy wrote:

Hahaha!

Heavily out voted...

Yeah right, what vote is this even???

Hancock has stated that the virus is being spread and the lockdown in the north because of it, is because of transmission via family and friends - and say what you want but clearly that couldn't be happening if social distancing rules were being followed.

I know enough about political governance to know Hancock (who seems to be the one leading this as the day to day public face of the government) would have been briefed about these facts and Conservative MP's in the 'lockdown' areas would have been prewarned and informed before it took place.

Whether you like it/believe it or not Whittaker would have been briefed with the 'whys' and 'when's' to deal with the arising queries of his constituents.

He certainly would have been briefed before his radio and TV interviews he made yesterday.

Also Calderdale Council would have been in receipt of ongoing details direct from Trace and Track which would also show where the new cases were occurring and how the spread was happening and Whittaker would have had access/been briefed to the information by that means as well.

As for throwing in the reference to Ken Anderson as an attempt to divert me from the above, well that's a bit TOO obvious and we've dealt with it many times before anyway.

You are either completely in denial about this or trying to stoke up yet another spurious argument yet again.

You’re out voted in your understanding of the English language, theories and facts are different things. That won’t change no matter how many words you write here.

In line with that, you again have no idea whatsoever what details Whitaker was briefed with before he made these statements. There certainly hasn’t been any evidence given to support him since he said it. So your assumptions remain only that.

I only mentioned Anderson as reference to you confusing theories with facts, I’ve no desire to go into that topic with you again.

It's almost impossible to come to any conclusions about how to manage the virus whilst the information about the spread in the uk remains so hopelessly inadequate.
The track n trace "system" hasn't even scratched the surface in terms of volume - they've actually contacted under 200k people to date less than a tenth of a percent of the population.
Excess deaths indicate far more people than officially announced have died (as they only announce those who have been tested) so how are they ever going to find who infected those who died without a post mortem covid test?

Trump made a big deal about defending the numbers in the USA on the basis that they have done more testing than anyone else. The converse of that is our government trying to claim the high ground on the basis of data which is in truth not even there and certainly not statistically significant i.e p=<0.05

Woeful.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

Hahaha!

Heavily out voted...

Yeah right, what vote is this even???

Hancock has stated that the virus is being spread and the lockdown in the north because of it, is because of transmission via family and friends - and say what you want but clearly that couldn't be happening if social distancing rules were being followed.

I know enough about political governance to know Hancock (who seems to be the one leading this as the day to day public face of the government) would have been briefed about these facts and Conservative MP's in the 'lockdown' areas would have been prewarned and informed before it took place.

Whether you like it/believe it or not Whittaker would have been briefed with the 'whys' and 'when's' to deal with the arising queries of his constituents.

He certainly would have been briefed before his radio and TV interviews he made yesterday.

Also Calderdale Council would have been in receipt of ongoing details direct from Trace and Track which would also show where the new cases were occurring and how the spread was happening and Whittaker would have had access/been briefed to the information by that means as well.

As for throwing in the reference to Ken Anderson as an attempt to divert me from the above, well that's a bit TOO obvious and we've dealt with it many times before anyway.

You are either completely in denial about this or trying to stoke up yet another spurious argument yet again.

You’re out voted in your understanding of the English language, theories and facts are different things. That won’t change no matter how many words you write here.

In line with that, you again have no idea whatsoever what details Whitaker was briefed with before he made these statements. There certainly hasn’t been any evidence given to support him since he said it. So your assumptions remain only that.

I only mentioned Anderson as reference to you confusing theories with facts, I’ve no desire to go into that topic with you again.

I'm out voted in my understanding of the English language... wtf are you talking about?

Fwiw I've dealt with and briefed MP's in my career so I have far more knowledge about this subject matter than you probably suspect of me.

I await Calderdale Council - which is Labour controlled - to refute what Whitaker has said.

I won't be holding my breath though.

Whitaker's been briefed - probably said too much - but he would have known what he was talking about.

Up to you if you don't want to believe it but as far as I can see no one is disputing the factuality of what he said but more to do as to how he said it.

Pubs to close down again?

This'll be interesting....

..and WTF is this all about?

Some of the government's decisions are really getting bizarre now.

As I will be on chemotherapy until mid September and possibly longer if my blood tests don't give suitable readings, I will be shielding for a lot longer than any ignorant government advice.

You can't make a one size fits all statement about shielding when it involves 2 million plus people with a multitude of different ages and conditions.

I prefer to use my own common sense and the advice of the Oncology Department at Blackpool Victoria, than that of the two twats. ( Boris and Matt).

Thought I'd chuck this in from an 'ethnic' perspective from two weeks ago in respect of Blackburn -


"We have we had 114 cases in the last two weeks and 97 are south Asian which is why we want to minimise household contact," Prof Harrison said.

"What we are seeing from looking at the postcode data in the last two weeks is a single house being infected and and the whole household becoming infected creating household clusters in part of the town."

He said it was causing "rising tide events that they are mainly in south Asian areas and areas with a high number of terraced houses and occupied by four or more five people".



Faz Patel MBE, who is a local adviser on community cohesion in Blackburn, said he was worried young people were ignoring advice on social distancing.


Young people are ignoring advice on social distancing, says Faz Patel

"What is happening since the easing of lockdown, we are seeing a lot of young Asian men and other young people spending time with their friends and going to their homes where they might spread the virus to their parents or grandparents," he said.

"We have to get the message out we can't go into another lockdown that would have a detrimental effect on our local area.

"It is going to be difficult, people started going to see their families last week but we have to stick to the new measures. People have got to understand no hugs or handshakes even though it is part of our culture."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-53414937

Sluffy wrote:

I'm out voted in my understanding of the English language... wtf are you talking about?

Fwiw I've dealt with and briefed MP's in my career so I have far more knowledge about this subject matter than you probably suspect of me.

I await Calderdale Council - which is Labour controlled - to refute what Whitaker has said.

I won't be holding my breath though.

Whitaker's been briefed - probably said too much - but he would have known what he was talking about.

Up to you if you don't want to believe it but as far as I can see no one is disputing the factuality of what he said but more to do as to how he said it.

You have far more knowledge of briefing MPs than I do? How does that mean you know what facts Whitaker had at hand when he made his accusations?

Theories and facts are different things, suggest you look them up.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

I'm out voted in my understanding of the English language... wtf are you talking about?

Fwiw I've dealt with and briefed MP's in my career so I have far more knowledge about this subject matter than you probably suspect of me.

I await Calderdale Council - which is Labour controlled - to refute what Whitaker has said.

I won't be holding my breath though.

Whitaker's been briefed - probably said too much - but he would have known what he was talking about.

Up to you if you don't want to believe it but as far as I can see no one is disputing the factuality of what he said but more to do as to how he said it.

You have far more knowledge of briefing MPs than I do? How does that mean you know what facts Whitaker had at hand when he made his accusations?

Theories and facts are different things, suggest you look them up.

Briefings provide the facts for those who need to know them.

I also already know the difference between theory and fact thank you.

You've clearly taken a stance and dug in.

Doesn't mean it's the right one though and whether you like it or not the information about the facts of who has been tested positive for the virus and who their contacts are. are in the domain of both Hancock who took the decision and the council's effected and if you truly believe that Whittaker was completely oblivious to Corona spread within his constituency then you clearly are ignorant about such matters as he would automatically be receiving facts and information from both Conservative Head Office and the Public Health Director at Calderdale.

He also doesn't work alone at Calderdale, he would have his own team of staff providing research and information to him.

Whittaker had the relevant facts to hand and if you don't want to believe that then that's your problem not mine.

For sake of balance it is worth noting that something is happening in Swindon which has a low population of around 7% Asian ethnicity.

They've shot up to No 5 on the seven day average of new cases at a rate of 50 cases per 100,000 population.

They've had 93 cases reported in the last 4 days but only had a mere 15 in the three days previous.

Seems to be consistent to be a spike at some factory or large employer - indeed on just checking I've found this from yesterday -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-53610084

Iceland Covid-hit depot workers 'afraid to go back'

Sluffy, you need a new hobby.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Sluffy, you need a new hobby.

I guess this is my hobby these days.

I'm fortunate enough not to need to work and I've not much else to do to keep myself amused so I try and do the best I can to understand the risks to my family and I with this pandemic and live my life around it.

I do enjoy research and analysis in any event and I'm not overly obsessive about it, the odds are definitely in my/our favour of avoiding it if we stay sensible and assume most others won't.

All the information I seem to need is available and all I do really is make a note of the daily information that I'm bothered about which takes me two minutes if that!

It takes me considerably more time having contrived arguments with certain individuals mainly over their preconceived social/political stance who simply don't wish to accept the facts that don't conform with what their deeply entrenched beliefs.

The bottom line is that the virus doesn't make the vast majority under the age of 40 (irrespective of what skin colour they are) particularly ill and any breaking of the rules and catching of the virus won't adversely effect them.

The big difference is how many people they infect with it and for all the reasons said above, Muslim communities in the north are passing it on at a greater rate than the pissed up white dickheads at the beach or down the pub, who seemingly pass it on mainly in workplaces rather than at home where they don't normal live in big family clusters and have loads of family and friends coming and going all the time.

It's just all about the numbers, closeness to and time spent with, of interactions that causes the new infections.

Simple as that really.

As I say it passes my time on.

Sluffy, you wrote
It takes me considerably more time having contrived arguments with certain individuals mainly over their preconceived social/political stance who simply don't wish to accept the facts that don't conform with what their deeply entrenched beliefs.


With your experience, I would suggest you treat it as no more than office politics.  We all know it doesn't matter when you go home at the end of the day  

gloswhite wrote:Sluffy, you wrote
It takes me considerably more time having contrived arguments with certain individuals mainly over their preconceived social/political stance who simply don't wish to accept the facts that don't conform with what their deeply entrenched beliefs.


With your experience, I would suggest you treat it as no more than office politics.  We all know it doesn't matter when you go home at the end of the day  

I do!

I'm not bothered what someone I don't know thinks, it's just a game that is being played really, although it can and does go way too far at times.

Whether he believes me or not, what I've said is what's really happening in those areas.

I've had a peek as to what's happening in Gloucester if you are interested - you are in 278th place (out of 315) with a rate of new infections of 1.5 per 100,000 population for the last seven day new cases average.

In comparison Bolton are 27th on 17.9 and Calderdale (where we've been talking about Whittaker and the Muslims) are 7th on 38.6.

Nat needs to be careful though as Preston has just stormed into 10th place with 35.3!

But winning so far is Wanderlust in joint last place with North Norfolk on ZERO!!!

Keep safe mate, that goes for everyone else too.

gloswhite wrote:Sluffy, you wrote
It takes me considerably more time having contrived arguments with certain individuals mainly over their preconceived social/political stance who simply don't wish to accept the facts that don't conform with what their deeply entrenched beliefs.


With your experience, I would suggest you treat it as no more than office politics.  We all know it doesn't matter when you go home at the end of the day  

Sluffy wrote:I'm not bothered what someone I don't know thinks, it's just a game that is being played really

Cool!

Does that mean we can all have a "ban" button for folk who disagree with us?

After all, the whole underpinning principle concluding the Cold War is mutually assured destruction.

Although on here it would be more like fastest finger first