How is the Tory government doing?

boltonbonce wrote:I wish people would stop throwing accusations of anti Semitism about. I myself was accused of it, which led to my leaving the party in bitter circumstances. This despite my association with the Anne Frank Trust.
The trust will be having its annual lunch in January to mark Holocaust Memorial Day, and the 75th anniversary of the publication of Anne's diary.
Guest speaker will be Joanna Lumley, and someone who can't yet be named for security reasons.
Not sure a trip to London is on this year, but you never know.

They aren't accusations - it is a fact in respect of the Labour Party under Corbyn.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf

"In October 2020, a report by the UK's human rights watchdog found Labour to be responsible for "unlawful" acts of harassment and discrimination during Jeremy Corbyn's four-and a-half years as party leader.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) investigation identified serious failings in leadership and an inadequate process of handling anti-Semitism complaints.

Its report said the party was responsible for three breaches of the Equality Act: political interference in anti-Semitism complaints, failure to provide adequate training to those handling anti-Semitism complaints and harassment.

In a statement, it said: "The equality body's analysis points to a culture within the party which, at best, did not do enough to prevent anti-Semitism and, at worst, could be seen to accept it."

The commission served an unlawful act notice on the party, meaning it has to produce an action plan within six weeks, which is legally enforceable by the courts if not acted upon".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45030552

I know all that. I've taken part in none of it, yet still had baseless accusations hurled in my direction. 

Have I been critical of Israeli government policy? Yes.

Does that constitute anti Semitism? No.

boltonbonce wrote:I know all that. I've taken part in none of it, yet still had baseless accusations hurled in my direction. 

Have I been critical of Israeli government policy? Yes.

Does that constitute anti Semitism? No.

I appreciate that you are feeling a bit tender about this subject but you clearly responded in your post above to my comment of yesterday in which I mentioned anti Semitism directly in relationship to Corbyn's administration of the Labour Party.

I DIDN'T throw any accusations of anti Semitism about - I was merely just stating a fact.

Hope you enjoy your trip to London in January if you attend.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:My thoughts on Brexit were that the vote happened, it was wrong, damaging and the electorate were lied to - but we couldn’t go back on it. 

Bercow (and many others) clearly took the view that if they possibly could stop it happening then the responsible thing was to try and do so - given how damaging they thought it would end up being.

I can’t blame him for that, and I’m surprised it’s him you describe as a cretin and not the likes of Boris who lied through their teeth to win your vote.

The only part of that I agree with is that the electorate were lied to. The Remain side wheeled in every forecaster of doom that they could to convince the electorate that they should remain part of the most corrupt, bureaucratic and damaging institution imaginable. Thank goodness the majority saw through their lies and deceptions.

Sluffy wrote:

I appreciate that you are feeling a bit tender about this subject but you clearly responded in your post above to my comment of yesterday in which I mentioned anti Semitism directly in relationship to Corbyn's administration of the Labour Party.

I DIDN'T throw any accusations of anti Semitism about - I was merely just stating a fact.

Hope you enjoy your trip to London in January if you attend.

I didn't accuse YOU of throwing accusations of anti Semitism about.

boltonbonce wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

I appreciate that you are feeling a bit tender about this subject but you clearly responded in your post above to my comment of yesterday in which I mentioned anti Semitism directly in relationship to Corbyn's administration of the Labour Party.

I DIDN'T throw any accusations of anti Semitism about - I was merely just stating a fact.

Hope you enjoy your trip to London in January if you attend.

I didn't accuse YOU of throwing accusations of anti Semitism about.

I know you didn't but the comment you made seemed to directly imply I did in my post on this very thread of yesterday evening in that it there's been no mention or discussion of anti Semitism on this forum for weeks, possibly months, prior to that and it appeared to me that your post was directly aimed at what I'd said.

I would have thought if you had intended your post to simply reflect your general thoughts (rather than specific to what I had posted) that you would have made your post on your very own thread which you always do - and not as you have done on this one.

I simply wanted to make it abundantly clear to all that what I had said was simply a statement of fact and nothing more than that.

Whitesince63 wrote:

The only part of that I agree with is that the electorate were lied to. The Remain side wheeled in every forecaster of doom that they could to convince the electorate that they should remain part of the most corrupt, bureaucratic and damaging institution imaginable. Thank goodness the majority saw through their lies and deceptions.

Ye you’re right, trades booming, we hold all the cards, major trade deal with the US already signed and best of all the flow of migrants has been halted. Good thing you knew so much better than all the experts hey Whites.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

Ye you’re right, trades booming, we hold all the cards, major trade deal with the US already signed and best of all the flow of migrants has been halted. Good thing you knew so much better than all the experts hey Whites.

Troy, had Remainers like you not spent 3 wasted years trying to turn the decision around a US trade deal would have already been signed. Instead we’ve now got a doddering old pseudo Irish nitwit, fully aligned with a duplicitous EU in an effort to punish the UK for daring to seek greener pastures. Why can’t you just accept the decision and get behind the country to make it succeed and why do you only concentrate on the negatives and ignore the positives to suit your own view.

Of course trade with the EU is down, partly due to Brexit and partly down to Covid, what did you expect? I’m actually pleased trade is down with them because I’m hoping that we find other markets to buy from over time, as we are already doing. Investment from the US is massively up and far higher than anything we’d have had from the EU and strengthening London as a financial hub of the world despite Remainer forecasts that everyone would decamp to Europe. Of course companies have opened offices in the EAu to ensure business continues but more jobs have been created than lost in the City.

Look, there’s no point going over the old arguments, it’s done we’re out and we’re not going back. Eventually even the EU will have to accept that and stop this ridiculous persecution of the UK to frighten other members not to try it. Why don’t you just accept what is, you lost and you don’t like it but continually moaning and trying to pick on negative points just makes you look very silly.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Troy, had Remainers like you not spent 3 wasted years trying to turn the decision around a US trade deal would have already been signed. Instead we’ve now got a doddering old pseudo Irish nitwit, fully aligned with a duplicitous EU in an effort to punish the UK for daring to seek greener pastures. Why can’t you just accept the decision and get behind the country to make it succeed and why do you only concentrate on the negatives and ignore the positives to suit your own view.

Of course trade with the EU is down, partly due to Brexit and partly down to Covid, what did you expect? I’m actually pleased trade is down with them because I’m hoping that we find other markets to buy from over time, as we are already doing. Investment from the US is massively up and far higher than anything we’d have had from the EU and strengthening London as a financial hub of the world despite Remainer forecasts that everyone would decamp to Europe. Of course companies have opened offices in the EAu to ensure business continues but more jobs have been created than lost in the City.

Look, there’s no point going over the old arguments, it’s done we’re out and we’re not going back. Eventually even the EU will have to accept that and stop this ridiculous persecution of the UK to frighten other members not to try it. Why don’t you just accept what is, you lost and you don’t like it but continually moaning and trying to pick on negative points just makes you look very silly.

I don't understand what you mean about the Remainers role in failing to secure a trade deal with the USA? Negotiations began immediately after the vote but their Ways and Means commission (under Trump) said from the outset that we were at the back of the queue behind China and the EU now that we were a tiny isolated nation in comparison - so what had the Remainers got to do with it - apart from correctly pointing out that what happened would happen?
Without the buying power of the EU we were never going to get a favourable trade deal.

As for replacing investment and trade deals - just read yesterday's article in the Express.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Troy, had Remainers like you not spent 3 wasted years trying to turn the decision around a US trade deal would have already been signed. Instead we’ve now got a doddering old pseudo Irish nitwit, fully aligned with a duplicitous EU in an effort to punish the UK for daring to seek greener pastures. Why can’t you just accept the decision and get behind the country to make it succeed and why do you only concentrate on the negatives and ignore the positives to suit your own view.

Of course trade with the EU is down, partly due to Brexit and partly down to Covid, what did you expect? I’m actually pleased trade is down with them because I’m hoping that we find other markets to buy from over time, as we are already doing. Investment from the US is massively up and far higher than anything we’d have had from the EU and strengthening London as a financial hub of the world despite Remainer forecasts that everyone would decamp to Europe. Of course companies have opened offices in the EAu to ensure business continues but more jobs have been created than lost in the City.

Look, there’s no point going over the old arguments, it’s done we’re out and we’re not going back. Eventually even the EU will have to accept that and stop this ridiculous persecution of the UK to frighten other members not to try it. Why don’t you just accept what is, you lost and you don’t like it but continually moaning and trying to pick on negative points just makes you look very silly.

Since the Brexit vote US investment is down, as are FDI job creations. 

Honestly now, do you just make this up and hope nobody knows better or do you genuinely think these things?

T.R.O.Y. wrote:

Since the Brexit vote US investment is down, as are FDI job creations. 

Honestly now, do you just make this up and hope nobody knows better or do you genuinely think these things?

Oh dear, wrong again I’m afraid Troy. I said investment into the City which you Remain buffs told us would collapse if we left the EU and relocate to Europe. Complete opposite as with almost every other fear monger claim. Must try harder 🥱

Whitesince63 wrote:

Oh dear, wrong again I’m afraid Troy. I said investment into the City which you Remain buffs told us would collapse if we left the EU and relocate to Europe. Complete opposite as with almost every other fear monger claim. Must try harder 🥱

This reminds me of Hancock proudly announcing that the Tories would employ 20k more policemen - and the TV presenter reminding him that since the Tories were elected the police force had already been cut by 21k so the new target wouldn't even make up what they'd cut.
"Yes but we're going to create 20k new jobs" reiterated Hancock completely missing the point.

With over a TRILLION POUNDS of business leaving our shores, a mere £15.8 billion of new investment is being lauded as a win in some quarters.

Financial services continues to be a major contributor to GVA especially as the government continues to throw incentives at foreign companies to prop up the sector, but the real question is that apart from repositioning the City as a virtual tax haven for the global super rich, how much of the income generated will be retained by UKPLC?

Interesting interview with Starmer on Andrew Marr this morning.

Marr kept pushing him to say that as he now held the balance of power in Parliament re next week's vote on new Covid measures - including "covid passports" - would he use the opportunity to defeat the government and then go for a vote of no confidence.

Starmer said he refuses to play party politics and will vote for whatever is in the interest of the British people and follow the scientific advice - i.e. Labour will again support the government's motion.

All very honourable, but I can't imagine for a second that Boris would do that if he was in Starmer's position.

wanderlust wrote:Interesting interview with Starmer on Andrew Marr this morning.

Marr kept pushing him to say that as he now held the balance of power in Parliament re next week's vote on new Covid measures - including "covid passports" - would he use the opportunity to defeat the government and then go for a vote of no confidence.

Starmer said he refuses to play party politics and will vote for whatever is in the interest of the British people and follow the scientific advice - i.e. Labour will again support the government's motion.

All very honourable, but I can't imagine for a second that Boris would do that if he was in Starmer's position.

You clearly don't understand politics at all then.

IF Starmer refuses to back the government - then the first thing he faces is going back on his own pledge that he would - and thus undermine his own credibility long term (yet another leader who doesn't keep his word) ...as bad as Boris,  ...can't believe a word he says..., type of thing.

The second is would his party back him or would there be a large number of Labour MP's still vote to support the measures and therefore pass the bill anyway?

The next is how would his rivals in the Labour Party use this to add to the fuel against him - clearly Labour are far from united as a party now.

Look at things from an electorate point of view - are Labour really putting their election chances in front of what's best for the country right now...?

And by far the main reason why this would not happen is that it is one thing to bring about a vote of no confidence but quite a different thing altogether to win the vote on one!

Do you REALLY think that a party with an 80 seat majority would vote itself out of power on a vote of no confidence in them???

I mean REALLY???



You do give me some great laughs!!!

wanderlust wrote:Interesting interview with Starmer on Andrew Marr this morning.

Marr kept pushing him to say that as he now held the balance of power in Parliament re next week's vote on new Covid measures - including "covid passports" - would he use the opportunity to defeat the government and then go for a vote of no confidence.

Starmer said he refuses to play party politics and will vote for whatever is in the interest of the British people and follow the scientific advice - i.e. Labour will again support the government's motion.

All very honourable, but I can't imagine for a second that Boris would do that if he was in Starmer's position.

Honour, integrity and concern for others are concepts that many Tories, and some people on here, don't understand.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Oh dear, wrong again I’m afraid Troy. I said investment into the City which you Remain buffs told us would collapse if we left the EU and relocate to Europe. Complete opposite as with almost every other fear monger claim. Must try harder 🥱

I never said anything of the sort. Were there exaggerations from the remain campaign to try and scare the public into voting their way? Definitely. 

Has our economy or (specific to your point) the City of London benefited from Brexit? No, and that’s a fact. If you want to find positives from the result then that’s a fucking awful place to start. 

Do let me know when you find any though - or even better wake up and realise that this right-wing bunch of shysters who implemented Brexit lied to you and let’s start looking at serious ways we can improve our situation.

So Boris gets a primetime slot on Sunday night telly to show a pre-recorded message about minor changes in Covid policy - no face to face, no questions - and tellingly not announced in Parliament.
Unsurprising therefore that the press have picked up on this and described it as a tactic to avoid his critics and questions about his behaviour.
As there was no need to go on telly to make the announcement, it seems as though Starmer will be given airtime tonight to comment.

Ominous and suspicious wording in Boris' response to questions about the Cabinet Secretary's investigation into illegal "gatherings" within No.10 last Christmas. 

Just how independent and impartial can this investigation actually be when Boris is able to say that the Cabinet Minister will report back the findings "as soon as we reasonably can"??

Reeks of collusion by a cornered rat.

The best article I've read today (in the i newspaper):

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/boris-johnson-tory-party-scandal-elected-1349406