How is the Tory government doing?

Whitesince63 wrote:

I see Mordaunt as something of a Maggie option

Dear God spare us all!

Unarguably the greatest peace time PM this country has ever had, feared by her enemies and respected by her peers and so sadly stabbed in the back by the woke mob of Heseltine and Howe. Sadly she’s gone but we now need someone with a similar resolve to cast out the woke, PC loving and Climate Change idiots we’ve currently got both in charge and in opposition. Penny could be close in my opinion.

Whitesince63 wrote:Unarguably the greatest peace time PM this country has ever had, feared by her enemies and respected by her peers and so sadly stabbed in the back by the woke mob of Heseltine and Howe. Sadly she’s gone but we now need someone with a similar resolve to cast out the woke, PC loving and Climate Change idiots we’ve currently got both in charge and in opposition. Penny could be close in my opinion.

"Peace time" is hardly accurate given that she started an unnecessary war in which more Brits were killed than in the Iraq War - and at the same time saddled us with an ongoing bill to maintain an unproductive protectorate that we nicked off France in the 1760s and has since been ruled by Spain, the USA and Argentina at various times.

She was an arsehole.

I think you’re making yourself look one of those Lusty with those comments. You just really can’t bring yourself to consider any positives at all can you? Thatcher completely transformed this country from the strike ridden, poor man of Europe to its fastest growing economy and respected all around the world. You can find all the negatives you want and feed on them but can’t find one positive to say without choking on it can you. Anyway, it’s going to get worse for you because BoJo is going to make a comeback in 2022, Brexit is going to outperform and the Tories will win the next election when it’s held. See, nothing to be negative about.

Selling off all the council houses was a disastrous Thatcher idea.

Also, do watch (again?) the film "Brassed Off" ......as an entertaining way of refreshing the memory of a major issue that her government faced with typical "compassion" for the poor folk involved.

okocha wrote:Selling off all the council houses was a disastrous Thatcher idea.

Also, do watch (again?) the film "Brassed Off" ......as an entertaining way of refreshing the memory of a major issue that her government faced with typical "compassion" for the poor folk involved.

Selling off the council houses was a brilliant idea and created the property ownership society we have today. It should though have been limited to long term tenants and not short term eras. It was that that has led to the problems.

I don’t need to watch “Brassed off” Oko, I was living in Rotherham all through the period and saw at first hand what was happening. Blame that idiot Scargill for the problems, it could all have been done so differently had the miners been prepared to see sense. Ask yourself, how many people still used coal to heat their homes instead of gas and other sources. We could import coal at half the cost of producing it here. It was just a case of simple economics that Labour could never come to terms with. Thankfully in Thatcher we had a PM who was determined to cull the power of the unions which your lot created.

Whitesince63 wrote:I think you’re making yourself look one of those Lusty with those comments. You just really can’t bring yourself to consider any positives at all can you? Thatcher completely transformed this country from the strike ridden, poor man of Europe to its fastest growing economy and respected all around the world. You can find all the negatives you want and feed on them but can’t find one positive to say without choking on it can you. Anyway, it’s going to get worse for you because BoJo is going to make a comeback in 2022, Brexit is going to outperform and the Tories will win the next election when it’s held. See, nothing to be negative about.

Loads of positives mate!

I'm positive Thatcher was a disaster for this country economically  having wasted the North Sea Oil boom and depleted our key industries instead of investing in them so we became more dependent on imports -

...Thatcher - zero impact on growth and a negative trade balance that has increased ever since the old bat was finally kicked out.

(BTW these are facts not nationalist rhetoric)

I'm positive Brexit is a political con, won't deliver what was promised and is a huge f*** up that will damage the country irreparably.
I'm positive that as the temporary transitional arrangements expire people will start to feel the impact more and more and continue to turn against the government.
I'm positive that the political balance will switch as the core Brexit vote dies off and more and more young people become eligible to vote.
I'm positive that Labour needs to get their act together if the opposition vote isn't going to be split as Tory defectors move towards their personal palatable alternatives - and I'm positive that means centrism if they seek an outright majority or alliances if they can't get over the line on their own.

And having repeatedly asked Brexiteers to list the benefits of Brexit only to be told things that we already enjoyed whilst in the EU, I'm positive there are none.

How much more positive do you want me to be?

wanderlust wrote:
Loads of positives mate!

I'm positive Thatcher was a disaster for this country economically  having wasted the North Sea Oil boom and depleted our key industries instead of investing in them so we became more dependent on imports -

...Thatcher - zero impact on growth and a negative trade balance that has increased ever since the old bat was finally kicked out.

(BTW these are facts not nationalist rhetoric)

I'm positive Brexit is a political con, won't deliver what was promised and is a huge f*** up that will damage the country irreparably.
I'm positive that as the temporary transitional arrangements expire people will start to feel the impact more and more and continue to turn against the government.
I'm positive that the political balance will switch as the core Brexit vote dies off and more and more young people become eligible to vote.
I'm positive that Labour needs to get their act together if the opposition vote isn't going to be split as Tory defectors move towards their personal palatable alternatives - and I'm positive that means centrism if they seek an outright majority or alliances if they can't get over the line on their own.

And having repeatedly asked Brexiteers to list the benefits of Brexit only to be told things that we already enjoyed whilst in the EU, I'm positive there are none.

How much more positive do you want me to be?

We’ll I’m positive I’ve just read the biggest load of tosh written on this thread Lusty. Once again you fail to take any account of the level this country had sunk to under Labour before she came in. The headwinds she faced were unbelievable and thank God she had the balls to stand up to them. No point really discussing the Thatcher era any further Lusty because I can’t think of a thing we’d agree on. It’s nice to have a frothy debate but when we are so far apart it can’t possibly lead to anything positive. There you are, at least we can end on a “positive.”

She's dead.

Whitesince63 wrote:I don’t need to watch “Brassed off” Oko, I was living in Rotherham all through the period and saw at first hand what was happening. 

I wasn't suggesting that you "needed" to watch Brassed Off, WS63.
 It's  not some sort of revelatory documentary or social history.

 It was just a recommendation by virtue of its quality as an excellent, enjoyable piece of film-making with the closure of the pits as a backdrop. Great cast, great music and great story/human drama. You'll love it! Tara Fitzgerald, Ewan McGregor, Peter Postlethwaite, Jim Carter star.

okocha wrote:
I wasn't suggesting that you "needed" to watch Brassed Off, WS63.
 It's  not some sort of revelatory documentary or social history.

 It was just a recommendation by virtue of its quality as an excellent, enjoyable piece of film-making with the closure of the pits as a backdrop. Great cast, great music and great story/human drama. You'll love it! Tara Fitzgerald, Ewan McGregor, Peter Postlethwaite, Jim Carter star.

It's very good.

Alternatively.....

okocha wrote:
I wasn't suggesting that you "needed" to watch Brassed Off, WS63.
 It's  not some sort of revelatory documentary or social history.

 It was just a recommendation by virtue of its quality as an excellent, enjoyable piece of film-making with the closure of the pits as a backdrop. Great cast, great music and great story/human drama. You'll love it! Tara Fitzgerald, Ewan McGregor, Peter Postlethwaite, Jim Carter star.

I’ve watched the film lots of times Oko and love it. To be fair it is also pretty representative of how things were at the time. I lived right in the middle of the coalfields near the Silverwood pit, one of the most productive and they were difficult times. Families and friends are still split today but things are changing. I now live near Barnsley and most of the pits have been built on with either new housing or retail parks. Nobody can not respect the way those men worked down the mines facing danger every day. 

Having moved from Manchester, I remember being struck how close the mining communities were. The miners earned good money and they spent it so the pubs and shops in the towns and villages prospered. Rotherham today is a shit hole, closed shops and full of drunks and druggies. What a shame because it’s such a picturesque town with the Minster and numerous timber framed buildings going to waste, not a decent shop left since the clueless Labour council offered the majors goodies to move to the Retail Park at Parkgate. So very sad. I may be a Tory but it doesn’t stop me feeling sorry for how it went. You blame Maggie whilst for me it was Scargill who caused the real damage with his strike.

Most people seem to ignore the fact that the previous Labour governments closed more pits than Thatcher did. In fact the Tory closures were all part of a plan created by Labour and Joe Gormley, the previous Miners leader before Scargill. Through Scargill’s overly aggressive and confrontational actions, Maggies hands were forced to speed up the closure process, which eventually created all the devastation. Thankfully recovery is under way and many new hi tech industries have opened around the Orgreave area creating good well paid jobs. Sad to see the communities split but life goes on.

Jacob Rees Mogg defends the upcoming 1.25% rise in Income Tax just 24 hours after demanding it to be scrapped.

JRM had been backed by loads of Tory MPS who are also against the idea of scrapping the 5% VAT on fuel to partially offset the forthcoming approx 50% rise in household bills.

Why?

Because on average, a rise in NI would cost higher earners more than low income families albeit the same pro rata, however fuel costs represent around 4% of higher earners' post tax income but as much as 12% of low income families' post tax income.

What a scoundrel......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59898748

Whitesince63 and everybody else too: Please read this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/05/johnson-fumbles-and-flails-under-pressure-from-rayner

okocha wrote:Whitesince63 and everybody else too: Please read this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/05/johnson-fumbles-and-flails-under-pressure-from-rayner

To be fair it's a very entertaining watch.

There's a new story emerging on the back of the investigation into Boris lying about his communications with Tory donor Lord Brownnose who paid for the refurbishment of his flat.
Apparently Brownnose - who is a jingoistic nationalist  Brexiteer member of the "Leader Group" dining club - had a proposal for GE2 - a reboot of the Great Exhibition of 1851 that showcased the British Empire and would in this modern era glorify Brexit.



Usually PMs under pressure go for a big ticket item to distract the nation from their folly - building an edifice, hosting a sports event or declaring war on someone - so at the time, GE2 seemed a good idea to Boris. However with the pandemic, Brexit, inflation, excess borrowing and trade going down the pan etc now is not the time to throw money around and Boris seems to have cooled to the idea.
Not sure how significant it will be, but that's the second time in a week that Boris has pissed off members of the super rich dining club that controls the Tories. Add that to the disenchantment on the ground and I'm wondering if the balance is tilting towards a leadership challenge as he's getting it from both sides?

If there was an electable replacement he'd have gone already IMO.