Our next five games in February.

Quite right RT cos we have none! We are watching absolute shite at the mo and I shudder to think when it will change. The rot has set well and truly in and I know I'm not alone in saying we've been here before and watched it get worse!!

Culcheth_White wrote:I still think we'll get promoted this season.

Please give me what ever your taking. It sounds awsome

Hipster_Nebula wrote:our "best" players.

who are they.

at this point i'd be most annoyed about losing Vela to be honest.

A lot of clubs who can't go up first time of asking will look more and more to their youth teams. I'm not against that.

Ngog.Chungy,Mavies and Holden,take any two of those and we are well and truly up the Swanee ! To be fair wouldnt blame any of them for jumping ship in the summer,wouldnt you in their shoes ??

N'gog? Really?

I wouldnt be too arsed if ngog went and we got a half decent amount of money for him

Lofty_Love wrote:N'gog? Really?

Said it before,he is the most gifted striker on the ball since Anelka.Playimg with Sordell the partnership showed real promise agaimst Sunder;and but without a prolonged stint in the team how can he buid up an understanding with anyone.Think Holden and Mavies would be able to get the best out of him but will that ever happen ? I for one would be very sorry to see him go.

Tigermin wrote:

Lofty_Love wrote:N'gog? Really?

Said it before,he is the most gifted striker on the ball since Anelka.Playimg with Sordell the partnership showed real promise agaimst Sunder;and but without a prolonged stint in the team how can he buid up an understanding with anyone.Think Holden and Mavies would be able to get the best out of him but will that ever happen ? I for one would be very sorry to see him go.

Sorry, I totally disagree.

Ngog has scored 7 goals in over 50 games, simply not good enough. He's missed more open goals than Elmander and is more lightweight than Chung Lee.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Tigermin wrote:

Lofty_Love wrote:N'gog? Really?

Said it before,he is the most gifted striker on the ball since Anelka.Playimg with Sordell the partnership showed real promise agaimst Sunder;and but without a prolonged stint in the team how can he buid up an understanding with anyone.Think Holden and Mavies would be able to get the best out of him but will that ever happen ? I for one would be very sorry to see him go.

Sorry, I totally disagree.

Ngog has scored 7 goals in over 50 games, simply not good enough. He's missed more open goals than Elmander and is more lightweight than Chung Lee.

He has one blinder in 20. He can never play consistently because he's always picking up little injuries that keep him out for a week or so, we need to get shot before he devalues anymore.

Tigermin wrote:
Said it before,he is the most gifted striker on the ball since Anelka.Playimg with Sordell the partnership showed real promise against Sunder;and but without a prolonged stint in the team how can he build up an understanding with anyone.Think Holden and Mavies would be able to get the best out of him but will that ever happen ? I for one would be very sorry to see him go.

I remember you saying that but thought it was a joke ha. I don't really agree that he hasn't been given long enough. He started a lot of games for us last season, like Nat said if he can't show what he can do in 50 appearances then I can't really see anything more coming from him.

I did have hope for him, I like his work ethic last season and understood it was hard to get goals and supported him in improving this season, but it just hasn't happened. Hes young so he could improve, but if we got 2.5 mill + id snatch their hands off personally. His wages won't be small either.


Also the fact that hes 6ft 3 and can head the ball is bloody annoying. He needs to get in the gym and bulk up a bit as well.

N'Gog the most gifted since anelka?!

Are you discounting loans, as surely sturridge was the most gifted.

Ngog has been a disappointment, but I wouldn't say it's entirely his own fault. I think he hasn't been played in a system that would suit him apart from the one game that I can think of. He's been shoehorned into a 442 with SKD before now, but it doesn't play to his strengths. He showed us that he can be effective as a front man with licence to shoot on sight but hasn't really been given much of a chance - at least not regularly. If we had a more mobile attack he could do well for us - perhaps partnering Sordell with a couple of tricky wingers and someone like Holden at his peak threading balls through for them, but our defensive frailties have prevented successive managers going for such a progressive approach going forward.

Personally, I can't see it happening for him in the near future as Dougie seems focussed on sorting out the back, but if Medo turns out to be half the player the hype suggests it may solve the problem leaving Dougie free to experiment with the front line. If he goes it will be a shame for us as he's one of those players who may turn out to be deadly given the right kind of service.

wanderlust wrote:Ngog has been a disappointment, but I wouldn't say it's entirely his own fault. I think he hasn't been played in a system that would suit him apart from the one game that I can think of. He's been shoehorned into a 442 with SKD before now, but it doesn't play to his strengths. He showed us that he can be effective as a front man with licence to shoot on sight but hasn't really been given much of a chance - at least not regularly. If we had a more mobile attack he could do well for us - perhaps partnering Sordell with a couple of tricky wingers and someone like Holden at his peak threading balls through for them, but our defensive frailties have prevented successive managers going for such a progressive approach going forward.

I'm so tired of Bolton fans using this excuse for overpaid plonkers who don't perform, it was exactly the same with Elmander.

Does the system we play stop a striker kicking a ball into the net from 6 yards out under no pressure? Does it stop him passing a ball 10 yards to a teammate, does it stop him controlling a ball? No it does not.

If he was a good player we'd have seen evidence of it by now.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Ngog has been a disappointment, but I wouldn't say it's entirely his own fault. I think he hasn't been played in a system that would suit him apart from the one game that I can think of. He's been shoehorned into a 442 with SKD before now, but it doesn't play to his strengths. He showed us that he can be effective as a front man with licence to shoot on sight but hasn't really been given much of a chance - at least not regularly. If we had a more mobile attack he could do well for us - perhaps partnering Sordell with a couple of tricky wingers and someone like Holden at his peak threading balls through for them, but our defensive frailties have prevented successive managers going for such a progressive approach going forward.

I'm so tired of Bolton fans using this excuse for overpaid plonkers who don't perform, it was exactly the same with Elmander.

Does the system we play stop a striker kicking a ball into the net from 6 yards out under no pressure? Does it stop him passing a ball 10 yards to a teammate, does it stop him controlling a ball? No it does not.

If he was a good player we'd have seen evidence of it by now.

You don't think the system played has any effect on a players performance?

Natasha is right.

N'gog just doesn't have 'it', he works hard but he doesn't have the natural ability, and his height brings nothing since he can compete physically or head the ball, in fact it just makes his balance worse.

N'gog: 52 games, 8 goals

Sordell: 17 games, 6 goals

Same team, same tactics - it shows the difference, and it can't be denied.



I can sum up N'gogs finishing/composure like this, and I think most will agree:

Id rather have Ricketts or Ream take a penalty than N'gog.

bwfc1874 wrote:

You don't think the system played has any effect on a players performance?

I think it can have an effect, but it can't make a good player appear crap. Systems don't make you miss easy chances or mis-control a pass under no pressure. Are you suggesting Ronaldo would look like Stuart Storer if he played for Bolton?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

You don't think the system played has any effect on a players performance?

I think it can have an effect, but it can't make a good player appear crap. Systems don't make you miss easy chances or mis-control a pass under no pressure. Are you suggesting Ronaldo would look like Stuart Storer if he played for Bolton?

Exactly, our tactics don't stop him from ever getting the ball. A good player would stand out in a team of underperformers not look worse.

I reckon hes our 4th best striker at the moment:



Sordell
C.Davies (although we can't really be sure yet)
SKD
N'gog
Eaves

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

You don't think the system played has any effect on a players performance?

I think it can have an effect, but it can't make a good player appear crap. Systems don't make you miss easy chances or mis-control a pass under no pressure. Are you suggesting Ronaldo would look like Stuart Storer if he played for Bolton?

Not the point I was making really. Ngog will never be Messi standard, but I think he could develop into a better player than he currently is if he got regular first team football with more creative players around him in close support. Unfortunately the system we play doesn't give him a lot of close support therefore he looks lost, therefore he gets dropped, therefore he doesn't get the opportunities or game time that would improve him. We're just not set up to get the best out of him so when he does get on the pitch he is asked to run around chasing lost causes and long balls - like Elmander was - and all we get out of him is the mileage.

Ngog was shit at Liverpool. Now he's shit for us.

Good player though.

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

You don't think the system played has any effect on a players performance?

I think it can have an effect, but it can't make a good player appear crap. Systems don't make you miss easy chances or mis-control a pass under no pressure. Are you suggesting Ronaldo would look like Stuart Storer if he played for Bolton?

Not the point I was making really. Ngog will never be Messi standard, but I think he could develop into a better player than he currently is if he got regular first team football with more creative players around him in close support. Unfortunately the system we play doesn't give him a lot of close support therefore he looks lost, therefore he gets dropped, therefore he doesn't get the opportunities or game time that would improve him. We're just not set up to get the best out of him so when he does get on the pitch he is asked to run around chasing lost causes and long balls - like Elmander was - and all we get out of him is the mileage.

Cheers Wanderlust,exactly what I was trying to say but obviously not as clearly as your good self. I strangely enough watch the players performances at each match and when I see class I like, appreciate it,next match ie Dingles if by a miracle he gets a game ( or more likely 15 mins ) watch both his positional sense and his ball control and when he does eventually go to a better more appreciative manager and team watch him go. On the other hand do exactly the same with that TIT Pratley and please tell me what the fck is he doing playing in a Bolton shirt,positional sense nil,ball control = bambi on speed,use to the effectiveness of the midfield absolutely diddly squat !!!

My only problem with Ngog is that he NEVER EVER looks committed to the cause. He always seems to play with a half-smile across his lips as if he is just happy to be here. Plus, he has a funny shaped head.