"Controlling the game when out of possession"

Dougie's got me a bit confused here.
I was thinking that although we've won the last few games, our performances haven't been scintillating and the margin of victory has been getting smaller, or at that the last two were close enough that they could have gone either way.
I mean Hanley hit the bar twice when we played Rovers and whatsit hit the post for Brighton so it's not as if we're completely in control of the situation all the time during games is it?
But now Dougie is telling me that we controlled the game when out of possession. That's a football managerial first for me.
I understand "containment", but that involves getting the ball back at the earliest opportunity - "controlling the game when out of possession" sounds a bit like "let them have it - we have a cunning plan".

I think it is his plan. Basically let them have the ball but make sure it goes backwards, he went very defensive against a super counter attacking team which is the right idea unless you're Barcelona. It worked a treat

From what Ive witnessed, freedman will become a brilliant manager

Getting everyone behind the ball and defending for your lives is sometimes necessary, but to deliberately use it as a tactic seems dangerous to me. Dougie obviously thought that we were not going to win the midfield and score a second goal and the next best thing is to allow them possession and deny them space around the final third.

I suppose it's the idea of having enough men behind the ball to ensure the opposition can't do anything useful with it. I think we did well to limit Brighton to as many clear cut chances as they made considering the possession they had and the attacking quality they have. My concern is that we've been considerably poor in all other respects this week and the bounce of the ball won't be on our side in future games should we continue to play this way.

Allowing the other team to come at you as a tactic is doomed in the end. Yes you win some but the odds on keeping a clean sheet is not good.
Week in week out teams go to Utd & City etc and sit back and soak up the pressure. Occassional they will get a draw or a breakaway and win the thing....but overall you lose. In our case we are supposed to be the recent Prem team...we are the ones who are supposed to be dishing out the pressure not soaking it up ....
I'll take most of the possession any day of the week.....

God help us when we lose a game.

terenceanne wrote:Allowing the other team to come at you as a tactic is doomed in the end. Yes you win some but the odds on keeping a clean sheet is not good.
Week in week out teams go to Utd & City etc and sit back and soak up the pressure. Occassional they will get a draw or a breakaway and win the thing....but overall you lose. In our case we are supposed to be the recent Prem team...we are the ones who are supposed to be dishing out the pressure not soaking it up ....
I'll take most of the possession any day of the week.....

We've learnt how to defend a lead, some would say it's a good thing.

I don't agree that attack is the best form of defence with our side, we aren't good enough going forward so if Dougie wants to put Medo and Wheater on, and trusts the defence to hold out Im fine with that. Contrary to what you say it does work, it's nothing like city and united playing defensive teams in the premier league, there's not such a big difference in the quality of the sides.

Dougie knew we'd have to concede the majority of possession to Brighton, that's their strength playing them at their own game probably would have left us open to concede. I wouldn't say we've played this way in every match, and that's what's important you set up to win each match individually, not like Coyle's play 442 and hope for the best tactics.

Being able to defend a lead is a good thing and my earlier comment wasn't a criticism particularly. Brighton were excellent in possession and when we couldn't score a second goal DF strengthened the defence to hold on to the lead. I just think that the "controlling the game when out of possession" statement is a bit of a well, strange way of saying defending in numbers.

Bernard Dennis Park wrote:God help us when we lose a game.

I for one I am glad we are all grown up enough to debate the pros and cons of tactics and players despite results. I have said it before, just because we win doesn't mean all topics are off and we must only discuss good things.

We won on Saturday but all the talk has been negative.

Let's slag Kevin Davies and Dougie's tactics off.

Very grown up.

bwfc1874 wrote:

terenceanne wrote:Allowing the other team to come at you as a tactic is doomed in the end. Yes you win some but the odds on keeping a clean sheet is not good.
Week in week out teams go to Utd & City etc and sit back and soak up the pressure. Occassional they will get a draw or a breakaway and win the thing....but overall you lose. In our case we are supposed to be the recent Prem team...we are the ones who are supposed to be dishing out the pressure not soaking it up ....
I'll take most of the possession any day of the week.....

We've learnt how to defend a lead, some would say it's a good thing.

I don't agree that attack is the best form of defence with our side, we aren't good enough going forward so if Dougie wants to put Medo and Wheater on, and trusts the defence to hold out Im fine with that. Contrary to what you say it does work, it's nothing like city and united playing defensive teams in the premier league, there's not such a big difference in the quality of the sides.

Dougie knew we'd have to concede the majority of possession to Brighton, that's their strength playing them at their own game probably would have left us open to concede. I wouldn't say we've played this way in every match, and that's what's important you set up to win each match individually, not like Coyle's play 442 and hope for the best tactics.

I'll agree with some of your points. However you are saying we can't pass a ball like the mighty Brighton..... doesn't that concern you a little bit?

The phrase is a new one on me but the tactics seemed to work.

terenceanne wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

terenceanne wrote:Allowing the other team to come at you as a tactic is doomed in the end. Yes you win some but the odds on keeping a clean sheet is not good.
Week in week out teams go to Utd & City etc and sit back and soak up the pressure. Occassional they will get a draw or a breakaway and win the thing....but overall you lose. In our case we are supposed to be the recent Prem team...we are the ones who are supposed to be dishing out the pressure not soaking it up ....
I'll take most of the possession any day of the week.....

We've learnt how to defend a lead, some would say it's a good thing.

I don't agree that attack is the best form of defence with our side, we aren't good enough going forward so if Dougie wants to put Medo and Wheater on, and trusts the defence to hold out Im fine with that. Contrary to what you say it does work, it's nothing like city and united playing defensive teams in the premier league, there's not such a big difference in the quality of the sides.

Dougie knew we'd have to concede the majority of possession to Brighton, that's their strength playing them at their own game probably would have left us open to concede. I wouldn't say we've played this way in every match, and that's what's important you set up to win each match individually, not like Coyle's play 442 and hope for the best tactics.

I'll agree with some of your points. However you are saying we can't pass a ball like the mighty Brighton..... doesn't that concern you a little bit?

Not really, that's the way Poyet has trained his players how to play since he has been there, Dougie hasn't even been here a season yet.

Besides I am quite pleased with how we knock it around on the floor, our passing game is easier on the eye than what is was under GM and OC.

Suspect the defending was forced upon us as Poyet claims it was one of their best away performances bof the season. This is certain to happen from time to time. At least we have a plan B to combat it even if it ain't pretty

Barryjw wrote:Suspect the defending was forced upon us as Poyet claims it was one of their best away performances bof the season. This is certain to happen from time to time. At least we have a plan B to combat it even if it ain't pretty

Couldnt agree more there barry. We all knew this would be a tough game. Yeah we ended up defending for large periods but dougie put the defensive game plan forward and ended up with the clean sheet

terenceanne wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

terenceanne wrote:Allowing the other team to come at you as a tactic is doomed in the end. Yes you win some but the odds on keeping a clean sheet is not good.
Week in week out teams go to Utd & City etc and sit back and soak up the pressure. Occassional they will get a draw or a breakaway and win the thing....but overall you lose. In our case we are supposed to be the recent Prem team...we are the ones who are supposed to be dishing out the pressure not soaking it up ....
I'll take most of the possession any day of the week.....

We've learnt how to defend a lead, some would say it's a good thing.

I don't agree that attack is the best form of defence with our side, we aren't good enough going forward so if Dougie wants to put Medo and Wheater on, and trusts the defence to hold out Im fine with that. Contrary to what you say it does work, it's nothing like city and united playing defensive teams in the premier league, there's not such a big difference in the quality of the sides.

Dougie knew we'd have to concede the majority of possession to Brighton, that's their strength playing them at their own game probably would have left us open to concede. I wouldn't say we've played this way in every match, and that's what's important you set up to win each match individually, not like Coyle's play 442 and hope for the best tactics.

I'll agree with some of your points. However you are saying we can't pass a ball like the mighty Brighton..... doesn't that concern you a little bit?

This highlights part of the problem for me, you completely discredit Brighton, but they are a strong championship side. We are beginning to compete on this level but over the course of this season and last we have been shit whilst Brighton have been a better side than us.

You should give them more respect, thinking we should walk over these teams purely because you don't know much about them is incorrect.

Douglas is a thinking man's manager. He seems to actually evaluate the opponents prior to each game and determine the best way to play against them. He has also managed to get the players to buy into his system and stay focused and disciplined for 90 minutes. One point that has evaded everybody on here is the disappearance of the red cards that plagued us earlier on this season, under Coyle. More discipline, better results and improvement in fitness levels - so far, Douglas shits all over Owen as a manager. In Owen's defense, he's the best manager he's ever been.

bwfc1874 wrote:

terenceanne wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:

terenceanne wrote:Allowing the other team to come at you as a tactic is doomed in the end. Yes you win some but the odds on keeping a clean sheet is not good.
Week in week out teams go to Utd & City etc and sit back and soak up the pressure. Occassional they will get a draw or a breakaway and win the thing....but overall you lose. In our case we are supposed to be the recent Prem team...we are the ones who are supposed to be dishing out the pressure not soaking it up ....
I'll take most of the possession any day of the week.....

We've learnt how to defend a lead, some would say it's a good thing.

I don't agree that attack is the best form of defence with our side, we aren't good enough going forward so if Dougie wants to put Medo and Wheater on, and trusts the defence to hold out Im fine with that. Contrary to what you say it does work, it's nothing like city and united playing defensive teams in the premier league, there's not such a big difference in the quality of the sides.

Dougie knew we'd have to concede the majority of possession to Brighton, that's their strength playing them at their own game probably would have left us open to concede. I wouldn't say we've played this way in every match, and that's what's important you set up to win each match individually, not like Coyle's play 442 and hope for the best tactics.

I'll agree with some of your points. However you are saying we can't pass a ball like the mighty Brighton..... doesn't that concern you a little bit?

This highlights part of the problem for me, you completely discredit Brighton, but they are a strong championship side. We are beginning to compete on this level but over the course of this season and last we have been shit whilst Brighton have been a better side than us.

You should give them more respect, thinking we should walk over these teams purely because you don't know much about them is incorrect.

Let's agree to difer then ..... Brighton are ok ....and Peterborough must be good to since they put 5 past us. Mentally a team should go into a game with swagger & confidence....nobody will beat us etc..... give them some credit but then hammer them .....just my opinion.

"Containment" is one thing but I just think that getting a lot of players behind the ball is hardly "controlling the game".
Best way to control the game is to have possession of the ball IMO.
Not suggesting Dougie's doing a bad job - he's doing really well with these players. Just think the phrase whiffs of media bullshit.

Aye ...can't wait till next time we play Utd .....give them 84% possession....38 shots on goal.......and then hammer 'em.