Should we be fighting in Syria?

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Tactical nuke incoming.

To Aberdeen? Not before time.

Another thread wrecked by Nat...

karlypants wrote:Another thread wrecked by Nat...

Don't make me angry.

David Icke sums this Syria up really well.

Bombing Syria will create even more refugees, Europe cannot cope now, just wait if we start bombing!!

Turkey downed a Russian jet this morning, emergency NATO meeting called. 

Not good.

bwfc1874 wrote:Turkey downed a Russian jet this morning, emergency NATO meeting called. 

Not good.

We are going to end up with a full scale war at this rate.

bwfc71 wrote:Bombing Syria will create even more refugees, Europe cannot cope now, just wait if we start bombing!!

Yep.
Bombing Syria will create more refugees, create more sympathisers, increase the chances of attacks in the UK, cost a fortune that could be better spent on anti-terrorist measures in the UK and create the potential for increased international tension - all in all as dumb a plan as it is possible to come up with. 

Apart from nuking Leeds where the London bombers came from.

bwfc1874 wrote:Turkey downed a Russian jet this morning, emergency NATO meeting called. 

Not good.

Typical of Turkish priorities. When they are not attacking the Kurds they shoot down a Russian plane bombing ISIS.

Couldn't agree more Miles, Putin's just said there will be 'significant consequences' for Turkish Russian relations.

xmiles wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:Turkey downed a Russian jet this morning, emergency NATO meeting called. 

Not good.

Typical of Turkish priorities. When they are not attacking the Kurds they shoot down a Russian plane bombing ISIS.

But they weren't bombing ISIS were they? 

They were bombing the Turkmen (Syrians of Turkish descent) villages in north Syria in support of the Assad regime which Turkey (and Britain and the US) oppose. 
The Russians were just doing a bit of ethnic cleansing for Assad and the ruling Alawi minority.
Have you forgotten that Assad is a military dictator representing a minority tribe that is 15% of the Syrian population - similar set up to Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein and Robert Mugabe? Bastard who retains power by rewarding his own people and killing and torturing anyone who opposes him. 

Bottom line is that Russia is supporting Assad and the West - and Turkey - want rid of him. 

Of the 3 ethnic Kurd groups in the region, only the PKK/Turkish Kurds are at war with Turkey and have been since the '80s. PKK are basically "Kurdish State" whose objective is to create a Kurdish Republic within Turkey and they're viewed like the IRA was viewed here in the '70s as they bomb crowded areas and employ similar tactics. Clearly throwing IS into the mix is going to provide the opportunity for some shenanigans and score-settling so nobody is blameless. Especially us - we're only doing it to protect the oil rights after all.

BBC's attempt to explain it...

Your analysis of Russia's bombing is fair Lust I didn't realise this was an enemy of Assad rather than an IS target, but Erdogan's actions in aiding IS so far have been deplorable Miles point regarding his lack of action is a fair one.

However you clearly don't know much about Kurdish history, their state and the persecution they've suffered from across the Middle East and previous imperial powers like ourselves. I suggest you leave it there as what you've written there is a grossly over simplified analysis of a very complex history and conflict.

The whole middle east conflict is a crock of shit, and it stinketh.

bwfc1874 wrote: I suggest you leave it there

Dream on, Wanderlust loves to pretend he is an expert on everything.

A ridiculous act of war by Turkey. Why in the world would Russia bomb Turkey, it's pretty obvious why they are there. 

I hope the Turks reap what they sow.

bwfc1874 wrote:Your analysis of Russia's bombing is fair Lust I didn't realise this was an enemy of Assad rather than an IS target, but Erdogan's actions in aiding IS so far have been deplorable Miles point regarding his lack of action is a fair one.

However you clearly don't know much about Kurdish history, their state and the persecution they've suffered from across the Middle East and previous imperial powers like ourselves. I suggest you leave it there as what you've written there is a grossly over simplified analysis of a very complex history and conflict.

Not trying to condone the historic treatment of the Kurds 74 - just contextualising the "typical of Turkish priorities" remark which was misguided at best.

And I do know a bit about the history of the Caucasus and the Ottoman empire and the displacement of the Kurds from Iran but I've left it to the BBC to clarify the modern day tripartite conflict so I was indeed "leaving it there" as there isn't enough time in the world to write anything more than an over-simplified analysis.

My Turkish runs to about 20 phrases - not enough to hold any meaningful conversations, but enough to get the Kurds who run the Aylsham kebab shops to open up and talk about their experiences and what their families are experiencing so I do understand what a complex scenario it is - and no side comes out of it smelling of roses.

Problem Yok amigo.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:A ridiculous act of war by Turkey. Why in the world would Russia bomb Turkey, it's pretty obvious why they are there. 

I hope the Turks reap what they sow.

So you are suggesting that Turkey is declaring war on Russia - despite their economic dependence on Russia?


And it has nothing to do with the reported 10 warnings in 5 minutes that the F16's gave to the Russian pilots for flying over Turkish airspace?


Well it's possible. After all the Russians were attacking Syrians of Turkish descent so that would have pissed them off. And they were doing it for the dictator Assad. Plus they want to appease Britain and the US who are opposed to Assad.

Maybe as the most secular Muslim State, Turkey has decided to throw their lot in with the West and cut ties with Russia?

Very brave move if true. Reckless even.

Two points WL.

First this action is typical of Turkish priorities. Turkey under its present regime is constantly seeking to undermine any Kurdish success in Syria and it is also far more hostile to Assad than it is to ISIS. Look at its refusal to let Kurds cross the border to defend Kobane whilst doing nothing to stop loonies crossing to join ISIS. Similarly in its recent attacks on terrorists it has devoted virtually all its efforts against Kurds and only made token attacks on ISIS.

Secondly Erdogan is constantly undermining Turkey's secular constitution. The longer he stays in power the worse the situation will get in Turkey.

Part of the problem in Syria is the West's fantasy that you can simultaneously oppose Assad and ISIS. The non-ISIS opposition to Assad is unfortunately militarily weak and American efforts to supply it with arms have proved to be a sick joke as all the weapons were promptly handed over to ISIS.

Turkey are aiding ISIS, they're obviously not serious about fighting them in any way.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Turkey are aiding ISIS, they're obviously not serious about fighting them in any way.

The Turkish economy relies heavily on tourism.

It accounts for almost 12% of their GDP and one in eight jobs is in the tourism industry.

So how does that work?