Should Freedman get the sack?

In my opinion we can't afford NOT to sack him.

boltonbonce wrote:In my opinion we can't afford NOT to sack him.

  

Breadman wrote:Why does every thread discussing this point include at least three posts saying "He's going nowhere because we can't afford to sack him" then?

I agree with what you're saying about the likelihood of him staying but that's got more to do with Gartside's stupidity than money.

My point was that too many people seem to think we haven't got the financial resources to end his contract.

Hi breadman, I don't say we haven't got the cash at hand to put him on 'gardening leave' or sack him outright. I just feel that it would be a waste of money because I don't honestly see a better quality replacement who wouldn't cost us quite a bit in compensation. Most of the out of work managers are out of work for a reason, they're crap and no better than DF at best. 

I believe DF is NOT the right man for the long term but right now I don't see anyone we could really get to come here doing any better. The really good managers will take one look at the mess and keep walking after Phil's last three appointments have left us in a hole so deep daylight is imported from China. 

It's not so much that we lack the money to sack the manager as we have nothing left for a new man to work with in terms of fees/wages etc as long as we're paying huge wages to several underperforming twerps and will be doing so for at least the next year and a bit unless we manage to offload them sooner which is less likely than me landing on Mars tomorrow. There's a thread on here that tells us who has a deal and when it runs out that makes rather grim reading. 

So yes, the financial position does play a big part of me saying don't sack Dougie yet but not quite in the way some people mean. I think we can't afford to fire him because we won't get anyone better and with all the deadwood on the books on huge wages it's going to be that way for some time yet. 

Personally I'd sack Gartside first, get in a competent chairman and someone who can actually read a set of books without deluding themselves then maybe look at how best to restructure the staff lower down the chain.

We're in full rebuild mode and it seems the board are happy to let DF see that through, of course if results like last weeks are strung together they might have a change of heart but as far as i can see DF is the man for the time being. 

The only person i see come up time and time again on twitter (apart from the latest person sacked) is Jimmy Phillips.  I'm not really sure what people expect would happen if he went, even if we, by some miracle, were to fly into the playoffs and go up, we would almost certainly go down (no money to spend) and in 16 months time we'd be saying. "Jimmy Phillips out" no vitriol though because he's a former player.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

Breadman wrote:Why does every thread discussing this point include at least three posts saying "He's going nowhere because we can't afford to sack him" then?

I agree with what you're saying about the likelihood of him staying but that's got more to do with Gartside's stupidity than money.

My point was that too many people seem to think we haven't got the financial resources to end his contract.

Hi breadman, I don't say we haven't got the cash at hand to put him on 'gardening leave' or sack him outright. I just feel that it would be a waste of money because I don't honestly see a better quality replacement who wouldn't cost us quite a bit in compensation. Most of the out of work managers are out of work for a reason, they're crap and no better than DF at best. 

I believe DF is NOT the right man for the long term but right now I don't see anyone we could really get to come here doing any better. The really good managers will take one look at the mess and keep walking after Phil's last three appointments have left us in a hole so deep daylight is imported from China. 

It's not so much that we lack the money to sack the manager as we have nothing left for a new man to work with in terms of fees/wages etc as long as we're paying huge wages to several underperforming twerps and will be doing so for at least the next year and a bit unless we manage to offload them sooner which is less likely than me landing on Mars tomorrow. There's a thread on here that tells us who has a deal and when it runs out that makes rather grim reading. 

So yes, the financial position does play a big part of me saying don't sack Dougie yet but not quite in the way some people mean. I think we can't afford to fire him because we won't get anyone better and with all the deadwood on the books on huge wages it's going to be that way for some time yet. 

Personally I'd sack Gartside first, get in a competent chairman and someone who can actually read a set of books without deluding themselves then maybe look at how best to restructure the staff lower down the chain.

Absolutely. Nobody is saying that Dougie is the next best thing since sliced bread but sacking Dougie would also mean the termination of Lennie Lawrence and any other back room staff. Factor in that cost and then find the money for a new manager and all his entourage and you are looking at quite a few bob.

The end of this season is the proper time to make such an important decision. We could go on a run and comfortably finish mid table or we could only just avoid relegation but either way I can't see the board making a decision before then, unless we drop into the bottom three.

Finances are stuffed long term with or without a sacking.
Get rid at least we might be able to enjoy a match knowing we are broke with the prospects looking brighter than what we have now.

Reebok Trotter wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

Breadman wrote:Why does every thread discussing this point include at least three posts saying "He's going nowhere because we can't afford to sack him" then?

I agree with what you're saying about the likelihood of him staying but that's got more to do with Gartside's stupidity than money.

My point was that too many people seem to think we haven't got the financial resources to end his contract.

Hi breadman, I don't say we haven't got the cash at hand to put him on 'gardening leave' or sack him outright. I just feel that it would be a waste of money because I don't honestly see a better quality replacement who wouldn't cost us quite a bit in compensation. Most of the out of work managers are out of work for a reason, they're crap and no better than DF at best. 

I believe DF is NOT the right man for the long term but right now I don't see anyone we could really get to come here doing any better. The really good managers will take one look at the mess and keep walking after Phil's last three appointments have left us in a hole so deep daylight is imported from China. 

It's not so much that we lack the money to sack the manager as we have nothing left for a new man to work with in terms of fees/wages etc as long as we're paying huge wages to several underperforming twerps and will be doing so for at least the next year and a bit unless we manage to offload them sooner which is less likely than me landing on Mars tomorrow. There's a thread on here that tells us who has a deal and when it runs out that makes rather grim reading. 

So yes, the financial position does play a big part of me saying don't sack Dougie yet but not quite in the way some people mean. I think we can't afford to fire him because we won't get anyone better and with all the deadwood on the books on huge wages it's going to be that way for some time yet. 

Personally I'd sack Gartside first, get in a competent chairman and someone who can actually read a set of books without deluding themselves then maybe look at how best to restructure the staff lower down the chain.

Absolutely. Nobody is saying that Dougie is the next best thing since sliced bread but sacking Dougie would also mean the termination of Lennie Lawrence and any other back room staff. Factor in that cost and then find the money for a new manager and all his entourage and you are looking at quite a few bob.

The end of this season is the proper time to make such an important decision. We could go on a run and comfortably finish mid table or we could only just avoid relegation but either way I can't see the board making a decision before then, unless we drop into the bottom three.

Anyone can get sacked if they're bad enough and if we are judging DF solely on results and team performances he is not long of this world as we have Ipswich away after QPR away and a few tough fixtures after that so there's a strong chance we will drop into the bottom 3 barring a miracle change on the pitch.

If we are judging DF solely on team performances and results then DF would be gone by now.

But I don't think that those are the criteria by which DF is being judged by the Board.
What keeps him around is his performance in player salary reduction, youth development and short-term survival in this league - which as far as I can tell he's doing OK but not much more.

If we use those criteria:
* No evidence as yet that his work developing young players is bearing fruit (we can't really tell how that's going, but perhaps the Board are seeing something)
* Still far too many players on high paying contracts (Fair enough. Nobody wants them and they refuse to budge so DF will just have to wait until their contracts expire)
* Flirting with relegation (major worry)

What keeps him around is somebody not having to face up to the mistakes he made, poor old Phil is in a right old piddle with this one yet again.
2 wins at home when home form is supposed to be the making of a team. Yet we still get the usual excuses high earners cunning plans but didn't the ginger do that as well as throwing out all that expensive technology.
All very Deja vu

carrs wrote:What keeps him around is somebody not having to face up to the mistakes he made, poor old Phil is in a right old piddle with this one yet again.
2 wins at home when home form is supposed to be the making of a team. Yet we still get the usual excuses high earners cunning plans but didn't the ginger do that as well as throwing out all that expensive technology.
All very Deja vu

Hi carrs, is this the carrs of pasty fame from other forums? If so it's great to see you here mate.

I think you raise a good point about home form but megson had advantages DF doesn't, primarily we were in the prem and still had much of the team Big Sam had built. Yes they were aging and in decline but they were still quality and had megson been blessed with more than three active brain cells he'd have used them much better. 

DF inherited a right mess because of Megson and Coyle spending money we couldn't afford on players who were nowhere near as good as Sam's team then failing to get the best out of what they had. Coyle had some atrocious luck with injuries in the first half of the season we went down but he failed to deal with that and eventually got the chop. Since he came in DF has been trying to reshape the team and rebuild but with what? I know he's not the best manager around by any means but the situation with the contracts and wages wasn't his fault. 

That said I do feel that his 'system' lacks any sort of clarity, I don't really understand what he's trying to do and I don't mean the usual gripes about formations and such. He's been here for a while now, he should know who his strongest players are and how best to utilise them but I'm far from certain he does which worries me a lot. 

The performance against Reading was mostly down to the players, no manager can legislate for such behaviour but the fact is that there have been too many matches this season where they've looked disjointed and uncertain of where they're supposed to be and what they should be doing. 

The hallmark of BSA's days were that we were organised, all eleven men knew what was required in terms of tactics and positioning etc, something we have clearly lacked since his departure. I credit Phil with bringing Big Sam in but he must take the blame for the failures since. Sacking DF now wouldn't in my opinion make much difference. The changes need to start at the top and Eddie is playing with fire leaving his 'mate' in charge. 

If we dump DF now with the way things are I really can't see anyone better wanting to come here. The managers who are available are generally out of work because they failed in their last job and wouldn't do any better than DF as things currently stand. I appreciate I can't PROVE they'd be no better but I truly feel that we should be concentrating on restructuring the whole club from boardroom down rather than going for another bloke who's been sacked three or four times or paying compensation to DF then more compensation to bring in someone who might and only might be able to work with one hand tied behind his back the way any manager would in our current dire circumstances. 

I suspect we'll be in this division for a few years yet until the books are balanced and we have players who are on realistic wages we can afford to pay with a manager who knows how to get the best out of them. That won't happen until Eddie wakes up and smells the coffee or Phil gets very lucky and picks out another winner from somewhere. 

It won't be Dougie Freedman when those days come but right now I think we just have to grit our teeth and hang on until we can actually bring in a manager who can succeed and give him something to work with.

LPP nails it once again.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:
If we dump DF now with the way things are I really can't see anyone better wanting to come here.

Anyone with a tactics book and a Mr Motivator video is better than Freedman.

There are several managers in Leagues 1 & 2 doing fantastic work on a shoestring budget - many would see Bolton as a huge job.

Of course any manager can be a disaster, but the next manager of BWFC will be hard pushed to be worse than Freedman.

According to someone on another forum, Malky McKay might be coming .

Freedman has one more league game to turn it around.

Don't shoot the messenger .

QPR away is no gimme.

scottjames30 wrote:According to someone on another forum, Malky McKay might be coming .

Freedman has one more league game to turn it around.

Don't shoot the messenger .

Whats the point he will only lose the next few games scott.

The rearranged home game against Burnley would be a better test.

scottjames30 wrote:According to someone on another forum, Malky McKay might be coming .

Freedman has one more league game to turn it around.

Don't shoot the messenger .

If they wanted Malky they'd give him the job now so he had time to bring some people in.

Isn't Malky currently embroiled in a legal battle with Tan regarding the compensation for his dismissal?

scottjames30 wrote:According to someone on another forum, Malky McKay might be coming .

Freedman has one more league game to turn it around.

Don't shoot the messenger .

Scott I won't shoot you but there's more chance of the two of us landing on Pluto tomorrow than there is of McKay coming here. He's just had one onanist of a chairman and self-pleasuring twerps calling themselves a board of directors and no way would he want another with a club that's going nowhere and has no money either.  

This wouldn't be another tweet from that bull's excrement spouting idiot called Nixon would it?  

If it is and you give it the slightest credence then I'm stunned because I thought you'd be smarter than that mate.

If Makay takes another job before next season he loses his right to claim constructive dismissal against Tan which also means he'd be giving up a sizeable pay off he's owed.

He'd also be mad to come to a club with our financial problems when he's among the bookies favourites whenever a premier league side outside the top 8 need a manager.

After todays performance definitely, O yes he should.

Three of our loan players score Eaves, Sordell and Cravies. but we had nothing up top, weak as a kitten.

Time to fuck off Freedman, At least the loan players are given a chance by their new manager.

Oh and PS, your football is dire.