Should Freedman get the sack?

No - I'm the fourth WUM.
No way can Freedman be blamed for today's result.
Went to the game expecting to get stuffed, but we weren't and if we had a decent midfield we'd have murdered them.
Dougie has defended Lonergan, but it was his stupid mistake that cost us a point and I would expect him to be dropped next game as he deserves it.
However, the real culprit today was Spearing and to a lesser extent, Mavies - in fact of the midfielders only Pratley and Medo put a shift in.

I agree change is needed, but it should be the players not the manager. The likes of Eagles have been trading on past glories for way too long and we need a manager who is willing to offload them at the earliest opportunity and replace them with midfielders that can offer an attacking threat and close down the opposition properly. Freedman won't get ripped off in the market as our recent managers have been and he knows what the real problem with our club is, so he should be allowed to get on with it. It will take time and will test our patience but unless we get new investment in the club (which isn't likely) that's what we've got to go through.

I said Keep him. 

but i do appreciate his position is perilous at this point and if he goes he can't have too many complaints.

Two out of three ain't bad and I'm still not sure about you, Boggers.....

wanderlust wrote:No - I'm the fourth WUM.
No way can Freedman be blamed for today's result.
Went to the game expecting to get stuffed, but we weren't and if we had a decent midfield we'd have murdered them.

I don't understand. He signed three of the five midfielders that started, who between them will be pocketing a handsome amount. He also signed Moritz and Hall who both show signs of promise when they play, yet regularly find themselves on the bench. Then there's Trotter, who's supposedly another skilful addition to the squad, and of course he's finally introduced with only 15 minutes left.

In any case, there's bound to be a lack of ingenuity from a five man midfield made up solely of predominantly central midfielders (two, maybe three of which defensive minded), or is it me?

We're 5th from bottom and facing life in League 1.

The players he's signed have been pants (Baptiste, Cavies, Tierney, Hall etc), the tactics are awful and wrong for the players he has, lowest levels of motivation in my lifetime, pisspoor performances rewarded with another game the following week. I could go on.

The guy is fucking useless. Yes, it's a tough job but plenty of clubs in this league are skint with a below average squad. Yet they have managers that get the best out of below average players. Are Blackpool, Ipswich, Huddersfield etc really that much better than us?

Of course the bellend should be sacked.

How can you judge tierney?  

You said Craig Davies didn't get a fair shot nat now he's "pants" haha.

Lets put it this way IF he does get sacked, how long before we employ a new manager how long before he decides what formation and its too late to get any other players, plus the players we do have don't give a damn and as such we would be in trouble no matter what between no and May! Best time to get rid is at the end of the season when the new person can actually look at the squad and decide what and who we need as it will give us about 13 weeks to shape any new team for a new campaign!

He has to be sacked and the sooner the better. To have the piss took out of you by North End fans is as low as it can possibly get. They are incredulous that they have got Cavies when we are so seriously in the shit. The man is out of his depth and we are now an embarassment both on and off the pitch. If he had anything about him he would walk but then again he is a jock so no effing chance of that happening !

A 'back him' vote from me.

I honestly believe he's been hamstrung with all the shite players, the lack of a balanced squad and no money due to being relegated - all courtesy of Coyle.

It's clear some players don't want to play for him - Mears, Eagles, Cravies, others are just crap - Ngog, Knight, Bogdan and most of the the rest are off form - Lee, Spearing, Moritz, etc.

How do you manage a team like this?

Any manager is going to struggle.

Clearly there is no money for replacements - Dawson almost going to Wigan and the Mason deal not going through showed that - and clearly that is why we didn't get a left back either.

I think Freeman is a better manager than the results have shown so far and when some of the bigger wages have been moved on in the summer he will finally have the opportunity to show us what he can do.

There's nothing to play for this season - apart from staying clear of relegation - so what's the point in spending money we haven't got sacking Freedman and his team and bringing another manager and his crew in?

They won't have any money to bring who they want in until the summer and by then I get the feeling that next season we may have fallen foul of the Financial Fair Play rules and if so, be subject to a transfer embargo.

As for it costing nothing to promote from within - of course it does!

If you gave the job to say Phillips, don't you think he would want a pay rise to the manager salary?  Also who is going to do the work that he does now - or does he do two jobs for the same money?

Also would Phillips not want his own team on rather than work with Freedman's?  Would Freedman's team want to work with Phillips?  Might they sue the club for constructive dismissal?

On many levels it makes sense to stick with Freedman.

But football and sense don't usually go together really - do they?

Sluffy, if we had Mickey Mouse as manager, you'd still be saying "give him a chance, it's not his fault he inherited a load of shit from Coyle!"

I just don't see it that way personally.

doffcocker wrote:Sluffy, if we had Mickey Mouse as manager, you'd still be saying "give him a chance, it's not his fault he inherited a load of shit from Coyle!"

I just don't see it that way personally.

What can I say except that I do, it is my honest opinion.

I'm not here to WUM.

I don't post under multiple accounts with different - and opposing view points - simply to create artificial debates - I simply post as I see it.

Coyle fucked up big time and whoever had to follow him, be it Freedman, Ferguson or Mickey Mouse, had a bloody difficult job to do based on what players they had inherited and the lack of any meaningful transfer budget to change things around.

I'm sorry if you don't like me saying this but it seems blatently obvious to me.

Freedman had a huge job on his hands after coyle no doubt but some of the things he has done tactics and personnel wise have seriously back fired on him. Plus he hasn't done himself no favours either.

If it's true that he really has lost the dressing room and the players he has signed like Hall and spearing have stopped playing for him then it will only end one way.

Sluffy wrote:

doffcocker wrote:Sluffy, if we had Mickey Mouse as manager, you'd still be saying "give him a chance, it's not his fault he inherited a load of shit from Coyle!"

I just don't see it that way personally.

What can I say except that I do, it is my honest opinion.

I'm not here to WUM.

I don't post under multiple accounts with different - and opposing view points - simply to create artificial debates - I simply post as I see it.

Coyle fucked up big time and whoever had to follow him, be it Freedman, Ferguson or Mickey Mouse, had a bloody difficult job to do based on what players they had inherited and the lack of any meaningful transfer budget to change things around.

I'm sorry if you don't like me saying this but it seems blatently obvious to me.

We all know Coyle fucked up. That doesn't mean Freedman hasn't failed in making the most of the hand he's been dealt.
I don't see much more to your argument in favor of Dougie than that Coyle was an idiot who left behind a load of overpaid players. Obviously, Coyle spent money poorly which has made Dougie's job harder than it could have been but that doesn't mean we should be in a relegation battle.

I think there's a bit more to it than Coyle just leaving behind 'a load of overpaid players'.

There were no wide midfield players on the entire team!

Yes Coyle left us wingers - but not a single one of them did 'defending'!

Our attack consisted of Ngog and ninetynine year old Kevin Davies!

Our midfield meastro was Keith Andrews! Mavies and Holden perpetually being injured.

What money we had was blown on Sordell - who clearly as some form of attitude problem - as he never was selected to play for us!

So I really need to say anything about our centre backs of Knight, Wheater, Mills and Ream?

Fair play to Ream though for reinventing himself this season.

Our fullbacks - Alonso who can't defend - major flaw for a defender, and Ricketts - who better as a centre back - weren't much better than Bogdan was as a keeper.

If you honestly and truly believe that Coyle left a decent team behind him then that's your opinion - I certainly do not share it.

Whoever followed Coyle had to more or less build a new team, with no money, and with very few other clubs interested in taking these 'wonderful' players and their - stupidly high wages - off our hands.

It takes time to undo the damage that as been done by Coyle. Of course Freedman could have done some things better but we don't know why he did certain things - maybe he had to?

Clearly something as gone on behind the scenes with players like Mears, Eagles and Cavies - otherwise they would nave played more. There must be a reason why no left back cover as been brought in for over four months now.

I'm not happy with some of his actions - Knight club captain, Wheater extended contract - is the man blind or something?

But he was left a crap hand by Coyle and as I've already said, whoever followed Coyle, be it Freedman, Ferguson or Micky Mouse, would all have had a bloody hard time making anything positive from it.

Sacking him won't change anything now - whoever comes in still as the same problems - until the summer when we finally can get rid of some of the shit and free up some wages at long last.

Sluffy wrote:
If you honestly and truly believe that Coyle left a decent team behind him then that's your opinion - I certainly do not share it.

I don't think Coyle left a team that should be battling relegation to League One and I certainly don't think we should be struggling now that Dougie's added the quality that he has.

You could go through any squad in this league and say "he's injury-prone, he has an attitude problem, he doesn't track back, he makes a lot of mistakes, he's alright going forward but he's no Paulo Maldini at defending..."
I particularly don't understand it when people complain that we should have wide players that are defenders one minute then wingers the next. I can't think of many wide players in this league that scrap for the ball in their own half effectively and cause defensive problems at the other end in equal measure.

Essentially, Coyle left behind enough quality to mount a serious promotion bid, as backed up by the late run last season once Dougie began to play to our strengths and brought the best out of players left behind by Coyle.
He's since moved on several of the players you cite as being unsatisfactory and brought in ones that would have been out of many other Championship clubs' grasps, and we're no better off for it.

As I've said, your opinion - I don't share it.

We all know one loan player was insrtumental in that promotion push last season 'as backed up' by how crap we were before he came (which resulted in Coyle finally being sacked) and how crap we've been since.

And that player can't even get into his own team's starting line up!

Without any doubt the best player we had lasr season was a West Brom RESERVE player - who completely outshone our susposedly 'serious promotion bid squad' left behind by Coyle.

I suggest then that West Brom must either have a fantastic first team squad or your assessment of the players left behind by Coyle is well wide of the mark.

(As a final note, wasn't Coyle's Wigan squad susposed to walk out of this division this season too?

I note his marquee signing flopped so badly that he has been sent out on loan and they are already TWENTYSIX points out of first place in the league!

So much for him leaving squads behind that can mount 'serious promotion bids'!).

Sluffy your anti Coyle tripe is wearing a little thin now. He's been gone for well over a year. Get over it! Most of OCs players are being moved on and replaced with truly awful players.

OC was a far superior manager to DF. OC got a team promoted, got us to a top 10 finish in the Premier and to the semi final of the fa cup playing some of the most attractive football seen by a Bolton side since the White Hot years. DF had not and never will achieve any of this.

Sluffy you complete bellend. Have you ever managed, for example, in an office?

If after 18 months your sales figures were worse than your predecessor do you think your Directors would accept the excuse that "the last guy left you a load of dross"? Of course they wouldn't.

A manager is there to improve performance by any means necessary. Training, motivation and in extreme cases by getting rid of people. Can you honestly say Freedman has improved any area of the team?

He may not have a load of cash to play with like QPR but let's not pretend he's had no money. £1 on Beckford, £2m on Spearing. Only this week the Millwall manager said his club could only dream of matching the contract given to Liam Trotter by BWFC.

The simple fact is Freedman couldn't spot a good player if his life depended on it. Craig Davies signed for £300k and not given a chance and fucked off to PNE, Spearing has been awful, as has Medo,  Tierney was pathetic before his injury, Hall anonymous, Moritz either "not match fit" or just shit, and Baptiste a fucking liability at times. How many of his signings can you say improved the team?

And how many players have actually improved under Freedman? A typical example is Eagles, he's been pretty solid in his Bolton career - but shit under Freedman. How many of the rest of the squad have become better players under Freedman? None is your answer.

Coyle was a fucking disaster, but you can't blame Coyle for the awful tactics, for playing players out of position, for the lack of motivation, and for signing the likes of Baptiste, Hall and Moritz.

Give it up you bellend, you clearly have issues with Coyle - did he steal your Barbie collection?

JAH wrote:

OC was a far superior manager to DF. OC got a team promoted, got us to a top 10 finish in the Premier and to the semi final of the fa cup playing some of the most attractive football seen by a Bolton side since the White Hot years. DF had not and never will achieve any of this.