The European Union...In or out?

In, we would be worse off if we left.

I know we're are in the European Union.

A layman's veiw.

Why don't we use the Euro ?

Or to put it simply, why can't I go into a Chinese Chippy in England and pay for my Fish and Chips in Euros.

Banks of the Croal wrote:I know we're are in the European Union.

A layman's veiw.

Why don't we use the Euro ?

Or to put it simply, why can't I go into a Chinese Chippy in England and pay for my Fish and Chips in Euros.

Blame Norway.

Banks of the Croal wrote:I know we're are in the European Union.

A layman's veiw.

Why don't we use the Euro ?

Or to put it simply, why can't I go into a Chinese Chippy in England and pay for my Fish and Chips in Euros.

Because Mrs Thatcher (correctly in my view) decided that giving control of currency would mean passing too many powers to bureaucrats in Brussels. They decide on issues such as the money supply, rates of interest and also some fiscal issues. She thought that European countries were all at different levels of economic strength and development- and it was simply giving away too much control and sovereignty. The Euro crises in southern European states ( look at Greece) I think proved her correct. Not being in the Euro has not done us much harm -the pound sterling is still seen as a major currency and a safe haven for overseas investors.
Go into any big London stores and they'll willingly accept Euros. The Chinese chippy won't- yet! one day it probably will

This is where I get confused though......

The Euro is supposedly on its knees but ten years ago, I was getting 2.5 Euros to the Pound on my holidays in Greece.

Last year in Bruges, I got 1.14 Euros for my Pound.

How can this be, if the Pound is so strong and the Euro is screwed?

Breadman wrote:This is where I get confused though......

The Euro is supposedly on its knees but ten years ago, I was getting 2.5 Euros to the Pound on my holidays in Greece.

Last year in Bruges, I got 1.14 Euros for my Pound.

How can this be, if the Pound is so strong and the Euro is screwed?

Are you sure that you were getting €2.5 to the £1?
I think your memory might be playing tricks on you. I don't think the exchange rate has ever shown that differential. I've just checked the historical exchange rates and 10 years ago today the exchange rate was €1.47 to £1- so you must have got an incredible deal in Greece.
Why is the € strong- answer is simple- Angela Merkel is backing it with the German €. She, with the power of Deutsche Bank and the ECB is giving strong guarantees that she'll back it to the hilt

It might have been closer to €2.20 (it was ten years ago) but it was still significantly better than the 1.14 I got in Belgium last year.

Banks of the Croal wrote:I know we're are in the European Union.

A layman's veiw.

Why don't we use the Euro ?

Or to put it simply, why can't I go into a Chinese Chippy in England and pay for my Fish and Chips in Euros.

Because the Eurozone is different to the EU, just as much as the European Court of Human Rights is not the EU - they are basically different bodies to the EU which have to have different treaties set up to be part of - although any new member state nowadays has to be part of all independent bodies which makes up the "EU."   As most people perceive the "EU" as all the bodies as one function, when they are not - although it doesn't help that they all share the same EU flag!!!

Also there is the EFTA - European Free Trade Association which consists of Switzerland, Norway, Lichtenstein and Iceland - means they pay into the EU club and have no say, whatsoever, n what goes on and they have to abide and implement the same laws as the countres that are full members of the EU club!

rammywhite wrote:

Banks of the Croal wrote:I know we're are in the European Union.

A layman's veiw.

Why don't we use the Euro ?

Or to put it simply, why can't I go into a Chinese Chippy in England and pay for my Fish and Chips in Euros.

Because Mrs Thatcher (correctly in my view) decided that giving control of currency would mean passing too many powers to bureaucrats in Brussels. They decide on issues such as the money supply, rates of interest and also some fiscal issues. She thought that European countries were all at different levels of economic strength and development- and it was simply giving away too much control and sovereignty. The Euro crises in southern European states ( look at Greece) I think proved her correct. Not being in the Euro has not done us much harm -the pound sterling is still seen as a major currency and a safe haven for overseas investors.
Go into any big London stores and they'll willingly accept Euros. The Chinese chippy won't- yet! one day it probably will

Yes and no but when the Canadian Dollar is traded more than the Pound on the major money markets it does put our currency into perspective.  The top traded currencies are:
1. USD
2. EUR
3. JPY
4. CAD
=5. GBP
=5. AUD
7. CNY
8. THB

(By the way this has come from the BNYMellon Forex portal and agreed by Bank of America and HSBC Global Operations).

Problems in Greece were caused by mismanagement of their finances and not keeping a check on what was being spent and what on - how can an economy grow when the retirement age was 50!!!  In Spain their relied on housing to bolster their economy and you can guess what happened when the recession built, whilst Ireland have always relied on handouts on white-collar work but it is the white-collar jobs that disappear when recession bites.

So in a way Maggie T was right, with regards to the diverse economies and not being ready to become one tier currency but the more richer and diverse countries have succeeded in promoting the Euro so much that it is the 2nd most traded currency in the world whilst the GBP has slipped from 3rd to joint 5th!!!    If anything the Euro should have been a 2 tier currency  with 1st tier being thee richer countries and the 2nd tier being the weaker countries. 

But the worst thing is that countries like Greece, Spain and Ireland are actually paying back their "loans" (that not a bad things) but their national debt, compared to the GDP, is now far lower than ours whilst ours is still increasing and supposedly will reach a peak of 87% of the GDP in 2017, whilst the "handout" countries National debt is now around the 60% of the GDP mark and falling!!!  (National debt is always measured against what the GDP (Gross Domestic product) is, and if it is over 70& of the GDP then it is classed as a danger country/currency but the UK relies on its historic Empire to bolster the loan but its doesn't help that the credit rating for UK is actually lower than Germany, France or even The Netherlands nowadays because of the debt!!!

The Euro can actually be spent in the major chain stores, but they don't advertise the fact as they don't want the hassle of working out the exchange rate!!!  In fact the UK is a dual currency country with the GBP an the EUR being the accepted.

As you can see it isn't really a straightforward explananation and never will be because of the various variables involved!!!

Out of Europe the pound may struggle for numerous reasons including those cited above. We'd then have the double whammy of the potential reintroduction of import taxes for British goods and I believe Europe constitutes something like 40% of our export market. Very risky to leave altogether whereas if we remain in the tent we'll at least be able to have a seat at the table and continue negotiating for the UK.

Leaving Europe does have a degree of popular support though, mainly because those who are attracted to the idea tend to confuse the economic arguments with immigration issues - which is fundamental to nationalists and other xenophobes.

bwfc71 wrote:  So do you honestly believe we would pull out of the EU if UKIP got any power - would Farage would want to lose his job in the EU and end up on the unemployment list?

I couldn't give a toss about him.   

Breadman wrote:It might have been closer to €2.20 (it was ten years ago) but it was still significantly better than the 1.14 I got in Belgium last year.

When the euro came in it was worth 60p. I know this because the first place I went when it came in was Portugal. They had a coin that looked like a £2 coin and they were worth 60p, the equivalent of 1€ there. 
These coins came in very handy back home when they accidently got mixed up with my English money and I'd had a few sherberts!!

This has been bugging me for a couple of days now, so I went back through a load of old receipts that The Boss insists on keeping and it appears that I have been talking absolute bollocks.

In Crete in 2004, the exchange rate was more like the figure quoted by SK above.

It was 1€ a pack for Leader cigarettes which worked out at about 65p.

It appears I was getting confused with the exchange rate we got against the dollar in the US in 1998, when it was definitely $2 to the Pound Sterling.

Apologies for talking shite.

(Not often you hear that on here, is it?)

Breadman wrote:This has been bugging me for a couple of days now, so I went back through a load of old receipts that The Boss insists on keeping and it appears that I have been talking absolute bollocks.

In Crete in 2004, the exchange rate was more like the figure quoted by SK above.

It was 1€ a pack for Leader cigarettes which worked out at about 65p.

It appears I was getting confused with the exchange rate we got against the dollar in the US in 1998, when it was definitely $2 to the Pound Sterling.

Apologies for talking shite.

(Not often you hear that on here, is it?)

Well done mate. Thought you were stretching it a bit, but the principle of what you were saying was right although nobody could have predicted how currencies will go in relation to each other.