Isis - The bad guys.

Considering that Islam is supposed to be a religion of peace I don't see much evidence of brotherly love in the middle east. Isis are rumoured to have links with Al Qaeda so how did they get so powerful and be able to form an army capable of taking over entire areas in such a short time?  Surely the Americans must have known something was afoot? .

There will be a major conflict,in this region to settle a power struggle that has gone on for centuries, the West has kept a lid on it for many years as occupying colonialists or supporting the more "acceptable" regions since the second world war. As the US becomes more self sufficient in energy with shale gas they are less likely to want to intervene, this may be upto China as the new superpower, Europe doesn't have the will or the strength to fight a war in the Middle East and has been reducing its military for years. Times are changing power and might are moving East.

Yes it will be interesting to see if the Chinese get involved. They certainly don't like Muslim fanatics. Maybe they can replace the Americans as the "bad guys" to ISIS and similar organisations, although it will probably take a few years.

It's a crock of shit whichever way you look at it. It's about time the likes of Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Bahrain and the rest of the United Arab Emirates got involved. Let them go into the shit storm for a change.

They have the money RT but not the manpower. They are all sunnis and therefore won't do much to help the shiite Iraqi government even though they aren't fond of ISIS either.

It's about time Catarrh cleared its throat as well. If it can afford to host a World Cup it can afford to send soldiers to help it's fellow brothers in their struggle against oppression.

I've been reading up a bit more on the events and things although bad may not get much worse.

To cut a long story short - and even if Lusty doesn't like the way I explain things simply, there is a power vacuum in the region where ISIS have had their spectacular recent success.

ISIS is a radical Sunni muslim group. The area they have taken (at least in Iraq) is populated mostly by Sunni's.

The reports I read (depends on if they are true or not of course) suggest Mosul fell to several hundred ISIS even though there were 30,000 government troops there - the problem (similar to when the US were there) was that they had no support from the locals who viewed the troops of the Shia government as an occupying force. In fact they had more in common with ISIS than there own leader Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki, who as been described as a Shia Saddam Husasein!

Bagdad to the south is overwhelmingly Shia, so it is probable that the army won't run if it is attacked - who knows for sure though?

Up to know it doesn't seem ISIS is a match for the Kurdish Iraq's to their north, or the Hezbollah or government troops in Syria (the west) - but then again this was before they got all the abandoned army equipment from the 30,000 troops in Mosul.

To the east is Iran, which is Shia and who it is believed will prop up the Iraq government to stop ISIS getting close to their country which boarders Iraq.

So if all that is right it seems ISIS has limited room to expand further - probaly explains why the US don't need to get involved on the ground right now.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of ISIS are made of Saddam's Presidential Guard who did a runner after the Iraq war. It's a sectarian war and ISIS will probably try to annexe the Sunni areas around Mosul and Tikrit as a separate state.

I agree with Sluffy that it may not get much worse but a lot depends on how far ISIS try to go (they may get over confident) and whether Maliki can rally the Shiites (if he can't will Iran intervene?).

RT I have no doubt that some members of ISIS are former Presidential Guard but again this goes back to the colossal stupidity of the Americans who dismissed the whole Iraqi army and left them unemployed and unpaid instead of purging the Saddam loyalists and using them to maintain law and order.

xmiles wrote:RT I have no doubt that some members of ISIS are former Presidential Guard but again this goes back to the colossal stupidity of the Americans who dismissed the whole Iraqi army and left them unemployed and unpaid instead of purging the Saddam loyalists and using them to maintain law and order.

To be honest, I don't think the yanks gave a shit what was going to happen after they'd pulled out.

They went after Saddam as a publicity exercise (something like 3 out of 10 yanks actually believed he was involved in 9/11 and the hijackers were Iraqis) and once they'd disposed of him and made billions out of rebuilding Iraq, they couldn't fuck off quick enough.

Agreed. The ridiculous thing is that there was no Al Qaeda presence in Iraq until Saddam was overthrown - he hated them as a potential threat to his own rule. Only idiots like Bush and liars like Blair could believe otherwise.

Hopefully Tony Blair and his diplomatic charm offensive will sort it all out. He's made a bloody good living as a middle east diplomatic expert since he left office. The Arabs relate to him because they know Cherie will do everything she can to uphold their human rights.

Sluffy wrote:Thing is though that those so called 'rag heads' control much of the wests oil and if you really are as old as your avatar says you are, you will remember the time in 1973 when they cut us off and we had the 3 day week.

Not much fun coming home to candles and no heating or telly.

The good old days eh, not again for me thank you - we don't want the nutjobs turning the oil off just because some bloke made a cartoon of Allah in a suiside jacket or something else as equally daft.

I was 15 in 73 Sluffy lad and would gladly  go back to candles,no heating or telly if it meant none of our lads being sent to die in that sand pit shit hole again.

Tigermin wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Thing is though that those so called 'rag heads' control much of the wests oil and if you really are as old as your avatar says you are, you will remember the time in 1973 when they cut us off and we had the 3 day week.

Not much fun coming home to candles and no heating or telly.

The good old days eh, not again for me thank you - we don't want the nutjobs turning the oil off just because some bloke made a cartoon of Allah in a suiside jacket or something else as equally daft.

I was 15 in 73 Sluffy lad and would gladly  go back to candles,no heating or telly if it meant none of our lads being sent to die in that sand pit shit hole again.

You might but there would be riots our streets if that was allowed to happen these days.

Sluffy wrote:

Tigermin wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Thing is though that those so called 'rag heads' control much of the wests oil and if you really are as old as your avatar says you are, you will remember the time in 1973 when they cut us off and we had the 3 day week.

Not much fun coming home to candles and no heating or telly.

The good old days eh, not again for me thank you - we don't want the nutjobs turning the oil off just because some bloke made a cartoon of Allah in a suiside jacket or something else as equally daft.

I was 15 in 73 Sluffy lad and would gladly  go back to candles,no heating or telly if it meant none of our lads being sent to die in that sand pit shit hole again.

You might but there would be riots our streets if that was allowed to happen these days.

You may be right but I prefer to think we as a nation might just be better than that .

Tigermin wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

Tigermin wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Thing is though that those so called 'rag heads' control much of the wests oil and if you really are as old as your avatar says you are, you will remember the time in 1973 when they cut us off and we had the 3 day week.

Not much fun coming home to candles and no heating or telly.

The good old days eh, not again for me thank you - we don't want the nutjobs turning the oil off just because some bloke made a cartoon of Allah in a suiside jacket or something else as equally daft.

I was 15 in 73 Sluffy lad and would gladly  go back to candles,no heating or telly if it meant none of our lads being sent to die in that sand pit shit hole again.

You might but there would be riots our streets if that was allowed to happen these days.

You may be right but I prefer to think we as a nation might just be better than that .

You've obviously forgotten the riots across the country just a few years ago then (2011) - and what sparked them was a over nothing really - the seniority of a policeman to talk to some protestors (in Tottenham though!).

Can't see todays chavs thinking about anything other than themselves and having the easiest of all lives no matter what.

Tigermin wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

Tigermin wrote:

Sluffy wrote:Thing is though that those so called 'rag heads' control much of the wests oil and if you really are as old as your avatar says you are, you will remember the time in 1973 when they cut us off and we had the 3 day week.

Not much fun coming home to candles and no heating or telly.

The good old days eh, not again for me thank you - we don't want the nutjobs turning the oil off just because some bloke made a cartoon of Allah in a suiside jacket or something else as equally daft.

I was 15 in 73 Sluffy lad and would gladly  go back to candles,no heating or telly if it meant none of our lads being sent to die in that sand pit shit hole again.

You might but there would be riots our streets if that was allowed to happen these days.

You may be right but I prefer to think we as a nation might just be better than that .

I'd be willing to bet you were one of the people that helped justify the war in the first place, it's hardly a stretch to imagine you saying invading Iraq's a 'great chance to batter some ragheads' is it?

Shites hate Sunnis, Sunnis hate Shites, what chance the infidel?
Religion at it's evil best!!

Soul Kitchen wrote:Shites hate Sunnis, Sunnis hate Shites, what chance the infidel?
Religion at it's evil best!!

  

Throwing our own forces into something that is going to happen anyway, is pointless. Let them sort it out once and for all, and then negotiate for whatever we want, after the event. Getting involved in tribal warfare just will not help, especially as we have seen that integrity and training count for nothing.

Having said that, I really can't condone innocent men, women, and children, slaughtered for somebody else's warped ideals.