Bolton Wanderers Football Club Fan Forum for all BWFC Supporters.


You are not connected. Please login or register

Isis - The bad guys.

+7
Natasha Whittam
wanderlust
Hipster_Nebula
xmiles
Tigermin
Reebok Trotter
Sluffy
11 posters

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Go down  Message [Page 3 of 4]

41Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sat Jun 14 2014, 12:14

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

You can rationalise the situation and talk about religion all you want but at the end of the day it's a power struggle between tribes.

To paraphrase RT, we're supposed to be Christians who turn the other cheek, don't covet our neighbour's oil and indeed love our neighbour so we'll presumably be staying well out of it. As if.

42Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sat Jun 14 2014, 12:29

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

There is definitely a tribal element (just as there is in Afghanistan) but ISIS, being fanatics, add something extra. This is why even though ISIS are Sunni they are not getting support from any Sunni countries apart from maybe Turkey who are doing it because they don't like Assad.

43Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sat Jun 14 2014, 12:40

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

44Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sat Jun 14 2014, 16:34

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

xmiles wrote:There is definitely a tribal element (just as there is in Afghanistan) but ISIS, being fanatics, add something extra.

From what I have seen they all seem to be bloody fanatics. Al Qaeda, Al Shabab, Mujahideen, Hezbollah, Isis, Taliban, Boko Haram, etc etc. The problem is that you cannot negotiate with these extremist types. You either accept their philosophy and ideology or else you are dismissed as a Kafir and are only fit for having your head chopped off.

Any group of individuals that are prepared to kidnap 200 schoolgirls simply because they are Christians, are unlikely to come to the negotiation table and scoff snails and Vol-au-vents while eschewing the virtues of tolerance and humanity to all religions, races and creeds. Communication and negotiations don't always work. That's why politicians declare war.

45Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sat Jun 14 2014, 16:37

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

It'll be interesting if the West get involved, when the Arab countries start squaring up to each other. A wise move, especially as its religion-based, is to let them sort it out themselves. With all the money sloshing around, and the ever-present fanatical element, along with the easy availability of arms, I think it might get very dirty, very quickly. Lets hope the West take a step backwards, at least to start with. As RT, said, they won't be too interested in negotiating, they all think they can take what they want.

46Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sat Jun 14 2014, 17:35

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

The common sense approach would be to just let them get on with it. But, genocide is a crime against humanity and the West cannot idly stand by while millions of innocent people are displaced from their homelands. These asylum seekers will all need food and water and somewhere to live.

47Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sat Jun 14 2014, 18:22

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Reebok Trotter wrote:
xmiles wrote:There is definitely a tribal element (just as there is in Afghanistan) but ISIS, being fanatics, add something extra.

From what I have seen they all seem to be bloody fanatics. Al Qaeda, Al Shabab, Mujahideen, Hezbollah, Isis, Taliban, Boko Haram, etc etc.  The problem is that you cannot negotiate with these extremist types. You either accept their philosophy and ideology or else you are dismissed as a Kafir and are only fit for having your head chopped off.


I wouldn't disagree with you about all the groups you list being different kinds of Muslim religious fanatics and this does make negotiation difficult but not impossible. Governments often do negotiate with terrorists and years later treat former enemies as respectable politicians e.g. the IRA. There already is evidence of negotiation with the Taliban over the recent release of Bowe Bergdahl and even the Israelis negotiate with Hezbollah.

48Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sat Jun 14 2014, 18:39

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Good point XM, but that usually happens when the dust has settled and both, or all, sides are firmly entrenched. Unfortunately, its the initial fighting and killing that causes problems, along with the long-term resentment and hatred.

49Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sat Jun 14 2014, 22:57

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

xmiles wrote: Governments often do negotiate with terrorists and years later treat former enemies as respectable politicians e.g. the IRA.

The IRA is not a good example. The Paddies may be stupid but they are not that stupid. There is no documented record of a single Irish suicide bomber since the conflict began. The IRA were happy to make the bombs but they had no intentions of being present when they went off. Seamus was happy to kill hundreds of people on sectarian grounds as long as he was well out of the blast zone.

50Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 11:38

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

In the Middle Ages in England the underpinning cultural and social values were not that much different from those in Middle Eastern countries just a hundred years ago. Modern communications and technology have accelerated tribal and cultural change and in many respects it's a natural extension of the Industrial Revolution. 

Only 50 years ago there were still cargo cults in the Melanesian Islands worshipping white-faced idols because they thought that the French rubber planters who had metal tools, mirrors and aeroplanes had the secret for communicating with the ancestors.
100 years ago the Middle East was largely populated by nomadic tribes to whom the British decided to give land and turn the bigger tribes into royal families in return for oil rights. 
From living in tents, traveling the trading routes and warring over women, water and camels or eeking out a stone age agrarian living in the foothills of the Himalayas to having access to TV, modern weaponry, in some cases wealth and exposure to decadence on a previously unimaginable scale in the space a two or three generations is an incredible journey - a journey that took hundreds of years in the west.

In England it took a civil war to wrest the power away from the King, revolutions, demographic reprofiling, establishment of Parliament and an Industrial working class, social reform, multiple wars, suffrage, technological advance, economic revolution and a whole bunch of other stuff over several hundred years to reshape our culture and values into what they are today. 

Societal rules and culture develop to support the community in their natural environment and in some historical environments there was a logic to e.g. women covering up in public especially where there is lawlessness and can't always be protected from kidnap or rape which is how it became adopted into the cultural value system.

Our Western values changes and evolved over a very long period of time as we moved from a agrarian serf (slave?) based society through industrial to technological.

But in those societies in the Middle East, parts of Asia, Africa and S America where modernity has been thrust upon them over no more than a handful of generations at the most it will take a very long time before culture and societal values catch up.

And whilst that's the case, those seeking power will always be able to justify their actions on the basis of culture and values and do it in the name of religion - the ultimate persuasion because it is a reflection of societal values and culture.

51Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 11:51

Reebok Trotter

Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Should the British stop tolerating intolerance?

52Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 12:15

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Has anyone else seen what that lying twat Blair has been saying? He basically says that the present trouble has nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq (really?) and even more bizarrely that it is because we didn't intervene in Syria! How that useless twat thinks overthrowing Assad and in effect helping ISIS would have prevented their expansion into Iraq is a mystery to me.

53Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 12:23

Guest


Guest

xmiles wrote:Has anyone else seen what that lying twat Blair has been saying? He basically says that the present trouble has nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq (really?) and even more bizarrely that it is because we didn't intervene in Syria! How that useless twat thinks overthrowing Assad and in effect helping ISIS would have prevented their expansion into Iraq is a mystery to me.

I nearly smashed my telly up when I saw him spouting that shite earlier. (Second time in about 12 hours I've wanted to do it - thanks Woy!)

The man is a slimy, vacuous twat and I can't believe I actually used to think he was different to the rest and was a decent human being.

He is a wanker.

54Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 12:26

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Reebok Trotter wrote:Should the British stop tolerating intolerance?

Did you watch BBC the big questions too? 

I did, what a load of guff. 

Muslims unable to give a yes or no as to whether stoning women for adultery is right or wrong. 

I think that sums it up frankly.

the religion of peace.

55Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 12:52

Guest


Guest

Lusty,

Are you related to that other great apologist for the barbaric practices so favoured in Islam, the late T E Lawrence?

You don't half sound like him.......

It's ok saying they're behind us in terms of intellectual development and are still operating at some medieval, feudal level (although slightly disingenuous and a bit patronising, if I'm honest), but they soon cottoned on about how valuable their oil reserves are and the power they would give them, didn't they....?

They can't have it both ways.....

56Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 13:18

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Did you watch BBC the big questions too? 

I did, what a load of guff. 

Muslims unable to give a yes or no as to whether stoning women for adultery is right or wrong. 

I think that sums it up frankly.

the religion of peace.

I'm tiring of your intolerance towards religion, you hater.

While you were trying on kilts this morning I was in church. What a lovely place full of happy and caring people. No one got stoned.

57Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 14:42

Soul Kitchen

Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

You practice the religion of the infidel! Smile
Just like Mr Blair!!

58Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 15:08

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Soul Kitchen wrote:You practice the religion of the infidel! Smile
Just like Mr Blair!!

Enjoy Hell.

59Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 15:51

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Breadman wrote:Lusty,

Are you related to that other great apologist for the barbaric practices so favoured in Islam, the late T E Lawrence?

You don't half sound like him.......

It's ok saying they're behind us in terms of intellectual development and are still operating at some medieval, feudal level (although slightly disingenuous and a bit patronising, if I'm honest), but they soon cottoned on about how valuable their oil reserves are and the power they would give them, didn't they....?

They can't have it both ways.....

the apologists allow the kind of barbaric crap we see on the news every day to continue, It's also why It's been allowed to find it's way into our schools.

60Isis - The bad guys. - Page 3 Empty Re: Isis - The bad guys. Sun Jun 15 2014, 16:37

Soul Kitchen

Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Soul Kitchen wrote:You practice the religion of the infidel! Smile
Just like Mr Blair!!

Enjoy Hell.
Hell exists as a figment of mans' mind or as an away football supporter in Turkiye!!

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 3 of 4]

Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum