Is Neil Lennon still the right man?

We're getting to an important part of the season now which could make or break us. We play Leeds next and they always have a good following behind them. If we lose and others around us win, we start to see the first signs of us being cut adrift.

I've always liked Lennon, with his no nonsense approach and he was a breath of fresh air after Dougie, and although I've recently stated you'd have to be an idiot to fire him off at this point, as no other manager could do anything with the money and players he's working with, I'm beginning to have my doubts.

The guy seems a shadow of the man that first joined. The pressure is on for the first time in his managerial career and he doesn't have a clue how to deal with it. His team selections are more than strange. Why play Dervite when you can play Prince? Why play Heskey when you can play Clayton? Clayton would even be in ahead of Feeney for me, who is also shit. Madine is a fucking joke as well. If he doesn't think lads like Samizadeh are ready for the first team, how he can think madine is worthy of a shirt I'll never know. If I was him I'd throw the youngsters in as a kick up the arse to the Senior players and look at it as a what do I have to lose situation, and the fans would back that I think. Judging by the players, he's struggling to motivate them as well. Has he fallen out with people like vela? Has he lost the dressing room? I don't know but we're spiralling out of control. 

So all this begs the question - is Lennon still the right man to lead us forward?

We need to stop this cycle so yes.

It's a weird one this.

He looks like he's struggling to me and I've said from Day One that I wasn't sure about his credentials to manage successfully with no money because let's face it, you'd have to be a complete John Barnes to fuck up the Celtic gig, especially with no Rangers in the league, so his time in Glasgow proves nowt.

But I am a little surprised at just how poorly he is doing.

To us outsiders he looked like a solid performer who knew the game inside out and who should be well equipped to get mediocre players at least operating at some level but as Nat and Lusty have both pointed out, we may have simply mistaken his "angry little ginger bastard" character for an ability to motivate his players.

Would I get rid?

Probably not - if you take the emotion out of the situation, all that would do would cost us more dead money that we haven't got and there would be no guarantees that matters would improve.

But something does need to change sharpish otherwise we're dead in the water.

So the short answer is, I dunno.

Losing Lennon would be a disaster - again. Going back to the drawing board for the umpteenth time would mean a further drain on our limited resources for no gain. 
We'd spend the first year blaming Lennon for the new manager's failure (because it's not His team) and finding other excuses for the chosen one. Yawn. We've been here before.
What we need is someone to take the squad that we have and if he can't get them to play at least get them to fight and show a bit of spirit. We need a system that suits them and at least gives them a chance of protecting against their evident weaknesses. We need results. 

In order for that to happen, Neil needs to take radical steps - and if what I heard about his stubbornness and temper is true, he needs to ditch that shit and find some tactical and man-management skills pronto.

There are far too many intangibles involved here to be able to make an informed judgement in my view:

Is he too stubborn to change his ways?

Does he lack the basic ability to do the job?

Was he promised money for players than never materialised?

Has he fallen out with key members of the playing personnel?

Have relations with Gartside broken down irrevocably?

Are the rumours about ED's health and his family securing Power of Attorney true?

Is there a takeover in the pipeline that we don't know about?

Is everything being pinned on that?

Is there really no money left at all or is this all part of Gartside's plan to stay in the division on the cheap, ie gamble on not spending and roll the dice on there being worse teams in the league than us?

The question hinges on whether the players still think he is. I know it's bullshit but the reality is if the players don't want to play for a manager they won't and it's beginning to look that way to me. We're not hearing a lot from them in the press and the strange selections/absence of some shows Lennons running out of allies as does. the silence from board level is deafening too, genuinely haven't felt this negative about us for a long time.

Changing managers is the last thing I want to do, and to be honest j doubt Gartside would want to pay up his contract anyway, but right now we're only going one way.

Breadman wrote:
... is this all part of Gartside's plan to stay in the division on the cheap, ie gamble on not spending and roll the dice on there being worse teams in the league than us?

If that's true a period of austerity would be a decent plan providing we're not actually relegated. Halt the financial slide and give potential investors something to hang their hat on.
Mind you, there's not much better than success on the pitch to attract investors.

To be honest, when it became blatantly apparent that we would only be considering bringing in the cheapest of the cheap (Madine and that kid from Carlisle who killed those people in that crash), it obviously pointed to two scenarios:

(A) All the money's gone

or 

(B) There is still some cash left but the preferred option is not to spend it (ALF?)

I went with Option A as that seemed the more likely, but the more I think about it, the more I reckon that there must be some cash floating about otherwise we'd have folded months ago, so I think that the likelihood is that the plan for this season has all along been to cut the money off and hope for the best.

And then hope that someone comes in and buys the club.

Well, how's that working out for you, Phil?

Or c) there's just enough money to keep the creditor's at bay providing we don't spend any more on the team

wanderlust wrote:Or c) there's just enough money to keep the creditor's at bay providing we don't spend any more on the team

Think that's the one.

I wonder how long Option (C) is viable, given that crowds are dwindling (13,000 last night), we've already secured debts against projected future season ticket sales, we have no more saleable assets on the playing staff and there's no more parachute money due.

Look this poor bastard has zero money to work with ..... everybody in the football world knows we a skint with no chance of anything but lower level football.  Whoever he can get to come here is just a leftover or not wanted by anybody else.  So even if can bring in a couple of new players the fans expectations that immediate improvement will be seen which is likely nonsense.
Money is not the end all and do all of course but when you can't even pay a decent loanees salary then what hope is there. I expect Neil to walk either this year or at least not renew his contract.... and who can blame him.

terenceanne wrote:Look this poor bastard has zero money to work with ..... everybody in the football world knows we a skint with no chance of anything but lower level football.  Whoever he can get to come here is just a leftover or not wanted by anybody else.  So even if can bring in a couple of new players the fans expectations that immediate improvement will be seen which is likely nonsense.
Money is not the end all and do all of course but when you can't even pay a decent loanees salary then what hope is there. I expect Neil to walk either this year or at least not renew his contract.... and who can blame him.

I completely agree with you, but when Freedman was in the exact same situation you were saying the complete opposite?

Breadman wrote:I wonder how long Option (C) is viable, given that crowds are dwindling (13,000 last night), we've already secured debts against projected future season ticket sales, we have no more saleable assets on the playing staff and there's no more parachute money due.

These factors will have been built into the budget planning exercise. After all a struggling club is better than no club (just!) and they have to show financial diligence.
These are also the very reasons why no more unbudgeted money will be spent on the playing staff - although Lennon has apparently been given the salary savings from loanees, but can't find anyone within that budget who he thinks would add value - or is willing to join us.

I think the current Board has seriously swung towards risk-aversion after what's happened to us in recent years - perhaps too much.

As you infer, being risk averse is ok up to a point but if it goes too far it (ironically) generates its own risk.

In our case, the very real risk of getting relegated.

Fiddling while Rome burns.

Breadman wrote:As you infer, being risk averse is ok up to a point but if it goes too far it (ironically) generates its own risk.

In our case, the very real risk of getting relegated.

Fiddling while Rome burns.

More investment and new players would be great if they worked out, but I'd be surprised if there are actually any players out there who we could realistically get and who would improve our situation.

But don't you think it's time to put an end to this perpetual cycle of running to the market every time we have a problem?

Surely at some point the manager has to earn his corn?

Let's be honest about it - Lennon hasn't shown us anything in terms of managerial skills so far. His purchases have been so-so, his tactics naive and given the selections he makes I suspect he has issues with some of the players and vice versa. It's all been a media circus of smoke and mirrors if results and performances are anything to go by.

But I'm not prepared just yet to believe he has absolutely no football management talent whatsoever.

Right now we are deep in the mire. Lennon got us here and if the man has any professional pride at all - and I believe he has plenty - he will get hold of the team by the scruff of their neck and bloody well make it work.

I don't think he's a quitter, and now is the time for Lennon to get busy and show us he can inspire this squad to start grinding out results.

terenceanne wrote:Look this poor bastard has zero money to work with ..... everybody in the football world knows we a skint with no chance of anything but lower level football.  Whoever he can get to come here is just a leftover or not wanted by anybody else.  So even if can bring in a couple of new players the fans expectations that immediate improvement will be seen which is likely nonsense.
Money is not the end all and do all of course but when you can't even pay a decent loanees salary then what hope is there. I expect Neil to walk either this year or at least not renew his contract.... and who can blame him.

At the moment there's no passion or commitment. There's also no organisation and team selection is questionable. Why pick the two slowest centrebacks we have? Dervite isn't good enough by a long chalk. Surely Prince should have been playing alongside Wheater, to add a bit of pace, not to mention the fact he's looked our best defender. If he has a problem with Prince then Derik could play alongside Wheater instead with Vela at right back if it came to it. Mavies playing deep is a waste and no one has any idea why Vela can't get a look in. He's been saying all the time we miss Clayton and now he's fully fit he's warming the bench. Misfiring and useless strikers are preferred above youth for reasons only Lennon can understand. We can't pass a ball properly and hold possession for any extended length of time. None of that costs money. It's down to coaching and selection. I'm not saying we should get rid of him but he isn't above reproach. I just can't understand his plan at the minute. Could his team selection be him trying to apply pressure to the board for a bit of cash to spend?

wanderlust wrote:

More investment and new players would be great if they worked out, but I'd be surprised if there are actually any players out there who we could realistically get and who would improve our situation.

But don't you think it's time to put an end to this perpetual cycle of running to the market every time we have a problem?

Surely at some point the manager has to earn his corn?

Let's be honest about it - Lennon hasn't shown us anything in terms of managerial skills so far. His purchases have been so-so, his tactics naive and given the selections he makes I suspect he has issues with some of the players and vice versa. It's all been a media circus of smoke and mirrors if results and performances are anything to go by.

But I'm not prepared just yet to believe he has absolutely no football management talent whatsoever.

Right now we are deep in the mire. Lennon got us here and if the man has any professional pride at all - and I believe he has plenty - he will get hold of the team by the scruff of their neck and bloody well make it work.

I don't think he's a quitter, and now is the time for Lennon to get busy and show us he can inspire this squad to start grinding out results.

Fully agree that it's time for Lennon to start earning his corn, as his apparent limitations are starting to surface but I think it's slightly disingenuous to suggest that he's wholly responsible for us being "deep in the mire", as he hasn't been given anywhere near the level of funding afforded to previous managers.

Even Freedman and Megson (neither of whom were behind the door when it came to pointing out that they were working hard to move the high earners on) had substantially more cash available to source new playing talent than Lennon's ever had.

And I know you've already suggested that you think that Lennon came into this with his eyes open regarding the finances but I struggle to believe that someone as obviously intelligent as he is would agree to operate on a budget of basically nothing from the off - that'd be suicide and I simply don't buy it.

If Gartside had sat him down and said:

"Look, we need to continue cutting the wage bill, so we will be selling anybody who can command a fee and you may or may not get some of that money but I'm not guaranteeing it."

"There will be no permanent signings and nor will we be sanctioning loan deals for players where any fee is involved, nor will we be prepared to pay more than (for argument's sake) £2k a week in wages for anyone we do bring in on loan."

....Lennon's either supremely (over)confident in his ability or not as bright as he comes across because those aren't terms that I'd accept.

Yes, he's culpable but the lack of investment in the playing staff has got to be a major factor in why we're doing so poorly.

If you can only sign third rate players because you're offering third rate money, you will only get third rate commitment from them, irrespective of who you are and what you try.

I stand by my assertion that he was mislead regarding the finances when he joined us and he's had the rug pulled out from underneath him as a result.

Gartside loves a fall guy and whatever you think of him, he's certainly not thick and I think he's had Lennon over a bit and set him up in a way that means that if we fail collectively, he can point the finger squarely at him.

Starting to get the feeling you don't rate Gartside


Trying to con the guy you're working with is a short cut to disaster and I'd be amazed if PG was that stupid as it would put his own position in jeopardy. I honestly don't know what was said though.

wanderlust wrote:

Breadman wrote:As you infer, being risk averse is ok up to a point but if it goes too far it (ironically) generates its own risk.

In our case, the very real risk of getting relegated.

Fiddling while Rome burns.

More investment and new players would be great if they worked out, but I'd be surprised if there are actually any players out there who we could realistically get and who would improve our situation.

But don't you think it's time to put an end to this perpetual cycle of running to the market every time we have a problem?

Surely at some point the manager has to earn his corn?

Let's be honest about it - Lennon hasn't shown us anything in terms of managerial skills so far. His purchases have been so-so, his tactics naive and given the selections he makes I suspect he has issues with some of the players and vice versa. It's all been a media circus of smoke and mirrors if results and performances are anything to go by.

But I'm not prepared just yet to believe he has absolutely no football management talent whatsoever.

Right now we are deep in the mire. Lennon got us here and if the man has any professional pride at all - and I believe he has plenty - he will get hold of the team by the scruff of their neck and bloody well make it work.

I don't think he's a quitter, and now is the time for Lennon to get busy and show us he can inspire this squad to start grinding out results.

His purchases have been so-so because that's all the money he had to work with. I do not believe that Neil has brought in anybody he actually wanted. They are all stop gap measures.
As for various team selection.... most have been tried...still  carp. Although playing Heskey is beyond me....I give you that.