Quick poll

Bread2.0 wrote:

gloswhite wrote:XM. What do you think of a possible second referendum being limited to those who voted the first time ? After all, if some couldn’t be arsed to join in the first time. Why let them now?
My point is that there are a myriad of different arguments and interpretations of the current mess we’re in, but one constant in all of it, is that we are coming out of the EU. I believe that this is one position the politicians can not get around. If they reneged on the right and morally correct action of adhering to a legal and democratic result, it would cause absolute havoc, for the whole country.  Bear in mind that though the vast majority of the exit voters are keeping quiet, probably because things are in such a state, they are still there, waiting. As for people changing, I believe that can go both ways, especially when the EU politics, bully boy tactics, and intransigence, is taken into account.

Come on now, Glos.......

You suggest banning anyone who didn't vote the first time round from having a say in the second referendum but then go on to talk about a "legal and democratic result."

You can't play the "it's the democratic will of the people" card and then suggest that we exclude eligible voters from the process, mate.

And as for remain voters changing their minds, I'm yet to see a single shred of evidence for that. Anywhere.

Thats just my point Breaders. People are chopping and changing, or trying to, those bits of the referendum they didn't like or agree with. Just look at Nick Clegg. Even published a book on how to stop Brexit. Democracy at its best !
People are now realising that the delay in the talks are not just down to the UK, indeed, according to a leaked EU document, plans are afoot to begin trade negotiations in December. Macron is emerging as a less than powerful leader, and Merkel is slightly damaged goods, and it is they who are driving the delays at this time. Come December, I think we will find that rather more of the other 26 will want to call a stop to this particular approach.
It really is an almighty mess, but I think we have to realise that its going to happen, one way or another.

The thing about democracy is that the people are always given a chance to reverse previous decisions and any decision has a timeframe and that includes electing the Government, Local Authorities and Government policies.

For some unknown reason some people are claiming the referendum is sacrosanct and, unlike any other aspect of the democratic process denies the British public the opportunity to reverse their decision. 

And there is little doubt that they would. 

Surely the only possible conclusion is that the British people are being denied their democratic right to revisit bad decisions and Brexit is being railroaded through to justify Theresa May's existence.

Another aspect that nobody seems to mention is that now that the British people are starting to better understand the issues that Brexit entails and the effect it will have on the UK why can't there be a different referendum asking a different question i.e. one that is unambiguous such as if the negotiating team fail to secure deals that meet specified criteria should we then abandon Brexit?

Perhaps local Councils should organise referenda along these lines and if the nation's feeling has changed as the polls suggest, advise local MPs to call for a vote of no confidence in Brexit?

It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.


It's going to be a long and bloody road, but we will get there despite our crap politicians.

Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.

Must....not....get...angry....and......respond......to...this....utter....fucking......drivel..........

Well done Breaders, I respect you even more now.

Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

Surely it's the Brextremists who don't understand democracy? Tell me, what democratically taken decisions don't have a review process and an option to change the decision? 

Apart from Brexit?

And what right has anyone to tell the British people that they have lost their democratic right to change their minds?

We don't live in a fascist state - yet.

wanderlust wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

Surely it's the Brextremists who don't understand democracy? Tell me, what democratically taken decisions don't have a review process and an option to change the decision? 

Apart from Brexit?

And what right has anyone to tell the British people that they have lost their democratic right to change their minds?

We can't flip in and out of the EU every five years.

That's not the point he was making though, was it?

You've had a pop at the Remain movement, saying that we don't understand how democracy works.

The whole point of fixed-term parliament and regular General Elections is to protect democracy.

ie, to give the people the option to change their minds on things and elect representatives who reflect their views and thus stop one side seizing power and being allowed to keep hold of it without being challenged.

Strangely enough, this "ignorant of how democracy works" Remain advocate learnt that at university 30 years ago when he studied Govt & Politics.....

Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.

So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.

Bread2.0 wrote:That's not the point he was making though, was it?

You've had a pop at the Remain movement, saying that we don't understand how democracy works.

The whole point of fixed-term parliament and regular General Elections is to protect democracy.

ie, to give the people the option to change their minds on things and elect representatives who reflect their views and thus stop one side seizing power and being allowed to keep hold of it without being challenged.

Strangely enough, this "ignorant of how democracy works" Remain advocate learnt that at university 30 years ago when he studied Govt & Politics.....

Yes, I do appreciate and understand the whole point of fixed-term parliament and regular General Elections is to protect democracy.

So do you think that the referendum was put to the country on a consultative basis only and was not binding on Parliament?

xmiles wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.

So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  

In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

Cajunboy wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.

So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  

In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

That avoids the point. If you believe the results of a referendum cannot be changed as that is somehow not how democracy works, then the referendum last year should never have been held.

Cajunboy wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.

So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  

In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

So.......

You initially voted for one thing.

But it then changed into something else.

So you gladly accepted the opportunity to have another vote on whether or not you still wanted to be a part of it.

Can you not see how you are (unwittingly admittedly) making the argument for a second referendum on leaving the EU?

Bread2.0 wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.

So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  

In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

So.......

You initially voted for one thing.

But it then changed into something else.

So you gladly accepted the opportunity to have another vote on whether or not you still wanted to be a part of it.

Can you not see how you are (unwittingly admittedly) making the argument for a second referendum on leaving the EU?

Bread2.0 wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Cajunboy wrote:It's strange how many remainers don't seem to understand how democracy works.

What's the point of a referendum if you don't respect the result.

So using your own logic we should not have had a referendum on brexit because we had one in 1975 supporting joining the EU (or Common Market as it was then known) and apparently once you have had a referendum the decision can't be changed.  

In 1975 I voted to be in the Common Market.

The EU is a totally different animal.

So.......

You initially voted for one thing.

But it then changed into something else.

So you gladly accepted the opportunity to have another vote on whether or not you still wanted to be a part of it.

Can you not see how you are (unwittingly admittedly) making the argument for a second referendum on leaving the EU?

I take your point and I did smile when I read your point. But as you said it changed into something else.

The vote in 1975 was to join the Common Market.

The Brexit vote in 2016 was over 40 years later, the EU is a totally different concept than we  voted for in 1975.

Breaders do you think that the referendum was put to the country on a consultative basis only and was not binding on Parliament?

Without googling the answer, yes.

I thought it was a non-binding advisory referendum.

I may be wrong though.

(And seeing as you've now asked me that twice, I suspect I am.)

The British public had a chance to vote. They voted to leave the EU. That's the end of the story.

Just because you think the majority voted incorrectly doesn't mean you're right.

There is ZERO chance of a second referendum, you need to accept that and get on with your life.

Why...?

I made a massive mistake marrying my first wife because despite initially seeming fine, she turned out to be a bit of a mental bastard.

Should I just've accepted that my life was effectively over at 25 and done fuck all about it?

Bread2.0 wrote:Why...?

I made a massive mistake marrying my first wife because despite initially seeming fine, she turned out to be a bit of a mental bastard.

Should I just've accepted that my life was effectively over at 25 and done fuck all about it?

For the sake of the second Mrs B, yes!