Teachers: Money Obsessed Arseholes?

not-so-plain-jayne wrote:teachers are paid a pittance considering the amount of abuse they have to put up with.

Abuse??

Spirit of 58 wrote:

What was that?

He avoided the taxman and banks like he would the plague. He had thousands of pounds stashed in his loft. He got raided by the Inland Revenue but he somehow managed to get off with it at court by pleading ignorance. I reckon he advised Harry Redknapp.

not-so-plain-jayne wrote:teachers are paid a pittance considering the amount of abuse they have to put up with.

Bring back the cane!

I stole this off the BEN website - its true though.

If it was any of your wages/conditions/pensions getting cut you wouldn't be as forthcoming with calling them all wankers...

"Its about their pay and about their pension.
If it happened to you, as to what is being proposed what would you do, just accept it and think yeah well the country is in trouble and I don't mind having some of my pay and pension being taken off me??
That's exactly the problem across public services.
it is not about the public because as a country we have forgotten what public service is all about."

I would be pissed off if someone told me I had to work longer for a smaller pension, but it doesn't change the fact that in 2013 the taxpayer should not be funding the pensions of public sector workers. They should have to make their own arrangements like everyone else.

Natasha Whittam wrote:I would be pissed off if someone told me I had to work longer for a smaller pension, but it doesn't change the fact that in 2013 the taxpayer should not be funding the pensions of public sector workers. They should have to make their own arrangements like everyone else.

Not quite sure I understand this.
The council tax payer (who pay for local state education) pays for wages and pension, it's all part of the same thing. I should add that of course the employee makes a contribution to their pension, as they should.
Are you saying that they should not get a pension and take out a pension with a private, profit making company and thereby further reducing their salary. Let's not forget that the public sector have had a freeze on their wages for three years whilst at the same time inflation has been 2.5%pa or more.

Also as we are talking teacher, what is not generally understood (not something the Daily Mail will tell you) is that the new Academy schools do not need to employ teachers who are fully qualified.
The Academies have also abandoned the school meal requirement for health eating ( I forget the proper name for it) much to the great annoyance of Jamie Oliver.

chipbutty wrote:

Not quite sure I understand this.
The council tax payer (who pay for local state education) pays for wages and pension, it's all part of the same thing.
Are you saying that they should not get a pension and take out a pension with a private, profit making company and thereby further reducing their salary.

I'm saying exactly that.

Of course we need teachers and I'm more than happy for my taxes to go towards their salaries. But why should I contribute to their fat pension pots when I myself have to pay into a private pension? How is that fair?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

chipbutty wrote:

Not quite sure I understand this.
The council tax payer (who pay for local state education) pays for wages and pension, it's all part of the same thing.
Are you saying that they should not get a pension and take out a pension with a private, profit making company and thereby further reducing their salary.

I'm saying exactly that.

Of course we need teachers and I'm more than happy for my taxes to go towards their salaries. But why should I contribute to their fat pension pots when I myself have to pay into a private pension? How is that fair?

They also contribute to their own pension just as you do, but not to a private profit making one.

Maybe the private sector could learn from the public. Not something you will learn from the 'Red tops'.

Teachers do like to whinge, and they will tell you that they don't actually work 9-3.30 and get 13 weeks off a year, but everyone knows they do. Everyone also knows that it's a profession that completely free of any accountability. You can be shit a teacher as you want and you'll never lose your job, we know this to be true because we've all been to school. They as a profession also reject any notion of performance related pay because, you know, it's not their fault the thick kids aren't getting good grades. Fuck it, I'm becoming a teacher, given that the current lot are just lazy public sector wankers I'd be head teacher within 6 months I reckon.

chipbutty wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

chipbutty wrote:

Not quite sure I understand this.
The council tax payer (who pay for local state education) pays for wages and pension, it's all part of the same thing.
Are you saying that they should not get a pension and take out a pension with a private, profit making company and thereby further reducing their salary.

I'm saying exactly that.

Of course we need teachers and I'm more than happy for my taxes to go towards their salaries. But why should I contribute to their fat pension pots when I myself have to pay into a private pension? How is that fair?

They also contribute to their own pension just as you do, but not to a private profit making one.

Maybe the private sector could learn from the public. Not something you will learn from the 'Red tops'.

Yes, but everyone knows that defined benefit final salary pension schemes are out dated and unsustainable. That's why virtually all existing schemes in the private sector are closed to new members and have been replaced by defined contribution schemes. I would say that it isn't right to move the goal posts on who have paid into a scheme based on a pre-existing agreement, but that gravy train can't be realistically kept going for new teachers.

Dinae Moe Humm wrote:Teachers do like to whinge, and they will tell you that they don't actually work 9-3.30 and get 13 weeks off a year, but everyone knows they do. Everyone also knows that it's a profession that completely free of any accountability. You can be shit a teacher as you want and you'll never lose your job, we know this to be true because we've all been to school. They as a profession also reject any notion of performance related pay because, you know, it's not their fault the thick kids aren't getting good grades. Fuck it, I'm becoming a teacher, given that the current lot are just lazy public sector wankers I'd be head teacher within 6 months I reckon.

Post of the day. After mine.

I have pensions, one of which is a state pension. I've contributed a vast sum of NI for 40 years on the basis that I would always have a state pension to fall back on if needed if/when I get to be 65. That was the deal. Last year I got a letter saying I wouldn't get state pension until I'm 66 - because they randomly selected a cutoff point two months before my birthday. No discussion and it pissed me off as a matter of principle.
Teachers pension is part of the T & C of their employment contract. If they start employing teachers on a private sector pension basis that would be fair - take it or leave it. But if you change the rules halfway through someone's working life it's not.

wanderlust wrote: If they start employing teachers on a private sector pension basis that would be fair - take it or leave it. But if you change the rules halfway through someone's working life it's not.

I agree it isn't fair to move the goalposts regarding pensions, but sometimes tough decisions have to be taken for the greater good.

As has been stated above, it isn't sustainable to safeguard these final salary pensions for public sector workers.

And when it comes down to it why should some lazy government office worker just plodding through life get a fat pension when they retire? If they want a fat pension they should bloody well go out and earn it, not expect people like me to contribute to it.

I wish the government had the balls to cancel all public sector pensions and make people sort out their own.

The problem with defined benefit pension schemes is that when the economy is in the shitter like right now, you're going to end up with a massive deficit on your pension scheme. That's risky, but moreso for the employer than the employee. Defined contribution schemes shift that risk from the employer, whose exposure will be nothing more than a matched contribution of the employees own to a pension scheme. I think that proves to be pretty good value, although you are susceptible to stock market fluctuations, for the price of 6% of my salary I get a 12% contribution to my pension plus a tax and NI saving. Plus, it's then not dependent on the long term success of that employer. I wouldn't be surprised to see the public sector move into similar schemes in the near future.

One of my Ex's was a trainee teacher and she used to get to school at like 7am get home at 6pm and be lesson planning for the next day until midnight/1am.

The job isn't 9 - 3:30 trust me.

I'm not saying they deserve a pay rise or anything of the sort but thats one of the misconceptions. The job is hard and no you can't be shit and be a teacher, the scrutiny you're under during your training is intense.

How was the sex?

Bernard Dennis Park wrote:How was the sex?

superb!!!!!!

Hipster_Nebula wrote:One of my Ex's was a trainee teacher and she used to get to school at like 7am get home at 6pm and be lesson planning for the next day until midnight/1am.

The job isn't 9 - 3:30 trust me.

I'm not saying they deserve a pay rise or anything of the sort but thats one of the misconceptions. The job is hard and no you can't be shit and be a teacher, the scrutiny you're under during your training is intense.

Yeah, but once you're in you're in and you can just chuck text books at kids, tell them which questions to do and sit there for the rest of the lesson. They know when the inspectors are coming and lesson plans and lesson objectives miraculously appear. I'm not saying their aren't good and hard working teachers out there. There are also those that don't work hard and just happen to be good at it, and those that work hard and are still shit. My favourite teacher was one who probably spent half the lesson sat there chatting to us, then let us leave early. Everyone in the class got an A at A-level.

Also, in regards to your ex if she's spending as long planning a lesson as she is teaching it, then she's obviously doing something wrong. Work smart, not hard.

Her experience isn't uncommon i have a friend doing teacher training now who spends long hours lesson planning.

It's nothing to with "being smart" or cutting corners it's because it is actually a hard job.

I'm not passing comment on the pay or the holidays or anything like that but for people to suggest it's a piss job, i just disagree personally.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

superb!!!!!!

This made me laugh.