Hysteria thread

Predictably, everyone's gone off the deep end after Saturday and in fairness it was worrying because of the selection and subsequent performance. 

But it was still just one game and a tough one at that. He won't be going anywhere for the next couple of months and I never agree with a manager being sacked after one game like Huddersfield. 

Even I won't forgive another selection like last weeks though, normally I follow DF's thinking even when others think it's madness it makes some sense to me. But Saturday did not, we need 2 wingers starting every game when Mavies is out. Now Mason's in he needs to be played with a partner, Im expecting big changes for Forest.

wanderlust wrote:Why is it that the posters who have spent all summer telling us how shit the team is and how inept the manager is are for the most part the same people who are doing most of the complaining now?

Surely they KNEW we were going to get battered by Watford and going off what they've written, surely they EXPECT us to get relegated?

So why the outrage if this was the level of performance they were expecting? Don't they believe what they themselves have written?

Great point and I'm gonna use that if you don't mind.

Breadman wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

I think they looked shell-shocked. Those goals were schoolboy errors - chances that were well-taken but should never have happened in a month of Sundays.
Spearing and one or two others seemed to have the passion for a fight, but I reckon those goals just knocked their confidence so much that their main emotions were fear and caution.

And where do you think they get that from?

Going back to your original question about why those of us who predicted we'd be shit again under Freedman are getting so angry after Saturday's abject display, I think it's probably because we could see what was going to happen but we kept being told to "stop being so negative before a ball's even been kicked" and other comments along those lines.

And when the inevitable happened, it made us even angrier that (on the face of it) we'd been right all along but there are still people saying the same old "give him a chance to bring his own players in and get them playing how he wants" rubbish, despite the fact that the problem clearly lies with Freedman's clueless tactics, naive belief in a stupid system and general inability to coach and motivate players.

That's why I've been having a rant.

Nothing's changed and it looks like it never will under DF.

In that case at what point do you stop feigning surprise at what's happening? 
Just how much mock horror and outrage can a social media site take without dying of boredom and repetition?
And where do you stop oversimplifying the arguments for a rational approach in order to undermine them? All that "those of us who predicted" nonsense is a prime example of how much you are missing the point by. 

I predicted mid table at best. I haven't seen anything that would suggest otherwise and I stand by it for now - after all, we may get Zaha and Woods. Or not.


My point is about people who moan about how shit we are but despite that somehow seem to think we're going to win - and then act outraged when we lose. Mental.

Nobody's "feigning" anything.

Just because I predicted that we'd get gubbed and then we did and I got angry about it just means I'm angry at getting gubbed because I could see it coming, not that I'm "feigning surprise" at what's happened.

And if you honestly believe that's what people are doing, it's you that's missing the point.

And as for this utter rubbish:

"My point is about people who moan about how shit we are but despite that somehow seem to think we're going to win - and then act outraged when we lose. Mental."


Who's done that?


I can't remember reading any comments on here along the lines of - "We're shit and Freedman's rubbish but I think we're going to beat Watford........oh no, we got beat! I'm outraged!"


Utter bollocks and there's no point debating this if you're just going to make stuff up......

Noticed you predicted we'd finish 16th Bread. Norpig agrees with you but everyone else who was brave enough to venture a guess went for higher than you:
Terence & Tiger - around 14th (same as last year)
Slightly higher than 14th Wanderlust and Numpty
Top 12 Aaron
Top 10 Rammy
Between 7 and 10 1874
Top 6: BTID, RT, Boggers & Keegan

That's almost an inverse correlation.

Breadman wrote:Nobody's "feigning" anything.

Just because I predicted that we'd get gubbed and then we did and I got angry about it just means I'm angry at getting gubbed because I could see it coming, not that I'm "feigning surprise" at what's happened.

And if you honestly believe that's what people are doing, it's you that's missing the point.

And as for this utter rubbish:

"My point is about people who moan about how shit we are but despite that somehow seem to think we're going to win - and then act outraged when we lose. Mental."


Who's done that?


I can't remember reading any comments on here along the lines of - "We're shit and Freedman's rubbish but I think we're going to beat Watford........oh no, we got beat! I'm outraged!"


Utter bollocks and there's no point debating this if you're just going to make stuff up......

I'm being hysterical.

I've just re-read my last response to you, Lusty and it's a bit "off", so I apologise for my tone.

I'm just sensing that this season is going to be like the end of Megson's tenure again, fans arguing and fighting and I don't want that.

He is a useless prick, though.......

The surprise was it was worse than even those of us who expected a 3-1 defeat could imagine.
Backwards was not supposed to be happening was it. Lose yes but with guts and showing some signs of change for the better was probably the most we could hope for. To be so much worse than even us doom and gloom merchants could image on Saturday was a bit of a shock.

So some of us were shocked and outraged to the point of being the hysterical doom merchant you have us marked down as.

In my case hysterical laughter broke out after all if you can't laugh what can you do. Clapping is not an option.

wanderlust wrote:We have a manager who plays a system that requires different players that he hasn't got or won't risk yet.

Well, that just says it all!! Madness on a par with General Melchet!

I watched Forest v Blackpool highlights yesterday. How can a team that has had no preseason and thrown together on the morning of the match look better than us?

okocha wrote:

wanderlust wrote:We have a manager who plays a system that requires different players that he hasn't got or won't risk yet.

Well, that just says it all!! Madness on a par with General Melchet!

It is madness, but we know it's madness, so why is anyone surprised by it?

Perhaps the only thing madder than repeating the same stuff forever and expecting a different result every time is gawping at the same stuff repeating itself and being surprised by it when the outcome doesn't change.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Not many have picked up on the total lack of passion with in the team. You can sometimes get by with average players and limited managers, but if you don't have passion on the pitch you are doomed.

Totally agree....and that's been my consistent point: Freedman is a control freak. He eschews passion and tries to instil a calm, methodical approach, building slowly from the back. Our defenders don't have the necessary skills for this, and, in any case, opposing sides in the championship just won't allow you time on the ball to pass it around at leisure. 
His (and Lennie's) touchline demeanour lacks animation so that we are not roused to fervour; he admits he never shouts at the players but prefers to analyse; this might be ok if:  a. he was rational;   b. the players were receptive The result is that our defenders look half asleep and are caught flat-footed. In attack we are just not on our toes, not sharp enough to take the few chances that arise because of the lack of urgency DF transmits. He should have been looking to inject pace and energy into the squad. Instead he bought Trotter, which speaks volumes.
Sounds to me as if Natasha could do a better job. At least she'd get them roused!

we are not roused to fervour

  

He should have been looking to inject pace and energy into the squad

Feeney?

okocha wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:Not many have picked up on the total lack of passion with in the team. You can sometimes get by with average players and limited managers, but if you don't have passion on the pitch you are doomed.

Totally agree....and that's been my consistent point: Freedman is a control freak. He eschews passion and tries to instil a calm, methodical approach, building slowly from the back. Our defenders don't have the necessary skills for this, and, in any case, opposing sides in the championship just won't allow you time on the ball to pass it around at leisure. 
His (and Lennie's) touchline demeanour lacks animation so that we are not roused to fervour; he admits he never shouts at the players but prefers to analyse; this might be ok if:  a. he was rational;   b. the players were receptive The result is that our defenders look half asleep and are caught flat-footed. In attack we are just not on our toes, not sharp enough to take the few chances that arise because of the lack of urgency DF transmits. He should have been looking to inject pace and energy into the squad. Instead he bought Trotter, which speaks volumes.
Sounds to me as if Natasha could do a better job. At least she'd get them roused!

Apart from the Touchline demeanour, I don't see how you can back up a word of what you've posted here it's complete guesswork. 

It's posts like this that get my back up because they're presented as fact but are clearly opinion. Let's criticise things that are actually happening not just guess and assume so we have something else to moan about.

wanderlust wrote:

okocha wrote:

wanderlust wrote:We have a manager who plays a system that requires different players that he hasn't got or won't risk yet.

Well, that just says it all!! Madness on a par with General Melchet!

It is madness, but we know it's madness, so why is anyone surprised by it?

Fans can still get enraged at performances even if not surprised. How else to facilitate change? Sitting quietly implies acceptance and we will suffer more of the same.
I don't wish to be rude, but you are showing the same tendencies as Dougie: an over-analytical lack of righteous passion to shock and rouse the club to action.

bwfc1874 wrote:

okocha wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:Not many have picked up on the total lack of passion with in the team. You can sometimes get by with average players and limited managers, but if you don't have passion on the pitch you are doomed.

Totally agree....and that's been my consistent point: Freedman is a control freak. He eschews passion and tries to instil a calm, methodical approach, building slowly from the back. Our defenders don't have the necessary skills for this, and, in any case, opposing sides in the championship just won't allow you time on the ball to pass it around at leisure. 
His (and Lennie's) touchline demeanour lacks animation so that we are not roused to fervour; he admits he never shouts at the players but prefers to analyse; this might be ok if:  a. he was rational;   b. the players were receptive The result is that our defenders look half asleep and are caught flat-footed. In attack we are just not on our toes, not sharp enough to take the few chances that arise because of the lack of urgency DF transmits. He should have been looking to inject pace and energy into the squad. Instead he bought Trotter, which speaks volumes.
Sounds to me as if Natasha could do a better job. At least she'd get them roused!

Apart from the Touchline demeanour, I don't see how you can back up a word of what you've posted here it's complete guesswork. 

It's posts like this that get my back up because they're presented as fact but are clearly opinion. Let's criticise things that are actually happening not just guess and assume so we have something else to moan about.

All this is indisputable, Mr Supercilious. Use your eyes!

Lusty I think you have to understand something that you're clearly either failing or flat out refusing to see. 

No one expects to win every match. No one who's supported BWFC for more than five minutes would ever say we should be world beaters. What sticks in our craw and should be sticking in yours is the manner in which we are being beaten. 


The truth is that Dougie Freedman has learnt nothing since he came in and is clearly uninterested in learning. The football itself is dire, the team has no unity and shows no fight and there is not one sign from either pre-season or the match against Watford that could suggest to even the most myopic rose tinted fan that we are in any way shape or form moving forward anywhere. 

There's no point saying he doesn't have the players he wants. He's got to get the best out of what he has, something he clearly cannot do. Don't bother to say he won't risk some players, if you've got them then use them. If you don't think they're good enough get rid. 

To say we are a mid table side might be a reasonable assumption but for one thing. We're not my friend. We're a bottom three side on current form and as long as Dougie is in charge that's where we will be next May. 

I have long been an advocate of patience; I was one of Megson's last defenders and Coyles, I was even sorry that Sammy Lee didn't get more time but in this case Dougie has HAD time including TWO complete summer transfer windows and we are a lot WORSE now than when he came in. 

This is not hysteria my friend; by now you should know I don't do hysterical knee jerk. It's my honest opinion, arrived at after a cold hard look at the quantifiable facts that are available to me that leads to only one possible conclusion. Dougie Freedman is not competent to manage this football club at this time. Phil Gartside is clearly not competent to find the person who is and as a result both men should be relieved of their duties forthwith and the owner should be bringing in people who are competent to at the very least stabilise this club and then move it forwards on and off the field. 

Frankly I doubt any of that will happen. Ed seems all too content to leave things as they are; a baffling decision both in football and business terms but nonetheless the one he seems to have made. 

Finally speaking purely as a fan I do not see why, as a paying customer I should be expected to put up with sub standard personnel delivering sub standard entertainment and be asked to pay large amounts of money for the privilege of doing so. I see no point in "proper fans go to every game no matter what" when it now costs so much to do so and I don't hold with the dogma that says we have to put up with garbage with no right to withhold our money if we feel it can be better spent elsewhere. 

Wanderlust I know you try to be the voice of reason here but in this case you are flat out wrong my friend. There is no reasonable way to defend what is happening in our club and the more you try to do it the more you sound like an apologist for the very people who are taking the mickey and money out of you, the paying customer. Right now you're starting to sound like a man who's been mugged who says "It's my fault for carrying a wallet" because that's what's happening. you're being mugged albeit legally.

i can't argue with any of LPP's comments above - spot on for me

luckyPeterpiper wrote:The truth is that Dougie Freedman has learnt nothing since he came in and is clearly uninterested in learning. The football itself is dire, the team has no unity and shows no fight and there is not one sign from either pre-season or the match against Watford that could suggest to even the most myopic rose tinted fan that we are in any way shape or form moving forward anywhere. 

My aim was to wait until after the Forest game before getting hysterical but, fuck it, I can't hold back any longer.

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luckyPeterpiper wrote:Lusty I think you have to understand something that you're clearly either failing or flat out refusing to see. 

No one expects to win every match. No one who's supported BWFC for more than five minutes would ever say we should be world beaters. What sticks in our craw and should be sticking in yours is the manner in which we are being beaten. 


The truth is that Dougie Freedman has learnt nothing since he came in and is clearly uninterested in learning. The football itself is dire, the team has no unity and shows no fight and there is not one sign from either pre-season or the match against Watford that could suggest to even the most myopic rose tinted fan that we are in any way shape or form moving forward anywhere. 

There's no point saying he doesn't have the players he wants. He's got to get the best out of what he has, something he clearly cannot do. Don't bother to say he won't risk some players, if you've got them then use them. If you don't think they're good enough get rid. 

To say we are a mid table side might be a reasonable assumption but for one thing. We're not my friend. We're a bottom three side on current form and as long as Dougie is in charge that's where we will be next May. 

I have long been an advocate of patience; I was one of Megson's last defenders and Coyles, I was even sorry that Sammy Lee didn't get more time but in this case Dougie has HAD time including TWO complete summer transfer windows and we are a lot WORSE now than when he came in. 

This is not hysteria my friend; by now you should know I don't do hysterical knee jerk. It's my honest opinion, arrived at after a cold hard look at the quantifiable facts that are available to me that leads to only one possible conclusion. Dougie Freedman is not competent to manage this football club at this time. Phil Gartside is clearly not competent to find the person who is and as a result both men should be relieved of their duties forthwith and the owner should be bringing in people who are competent to at the very least stabilise this club and then move it forwards on and off the field. 

Frankly I doubt any of that will happen. Ed seems all too content to leave things as they are; a baffling decision both in football and business terms but nonetheless the one he seems to have made. 

Finally speaking purely as a fan I do not see why, as a paying customer I should be expected to put up with sub standard personnel delivering sub standard entertainment and be asked to pay large amounts of money for the privilege of doing so. I see no point in "proper fans go to every game no matter what" when it now costs so much to do so and I don't hold with the dogma that says we have to put up with garbage with no right to withhold our money if we feel it can be better spent elsewhere. 

Wanderlust I know you try to be the voice of reason here but in this case you are flat out wrong my friend. There is no reasonable way to defend what is happening in our club and the more you try to do it the more you sound like an apologist for the very people who are taking the mickey and money out of you, the paying customer. Right now you're starting to sound like a man who's been mugged who says "It's my fault for carrying a wallet" because that's what's happening. you're being mugged albeit legally.

Wow Peter! What a post! You bent old Lusty over on this thread and shagged him right up the arse!!!