Hysteria thread

are we a lot worse? You could make the argument we're no better, but Coyle left us in 18th. Dougie has had us finishing 7th and 14th. 

unless of course you think Coyle would have turned it all around and had us challenging year in year out. Which is fair enough, don't agree though.

...and yet here I am fully lubricated and back for more.

I totally understand your analogy about the quality of product on offer. It's shit. But if you have a bad meal at a restaurant you don't go back 78 times to tell them how shit it was. Because if you are going to use that analogy it's only reasonable to suggest that you don't go back. But this is a football club - and it's different from other products so your "paying customer" analogies are irrelevant unless you are actually prepared to vote with your feet.

Let me try to spell it out...

I don't disagree that Freedman is poor and the team is awful.
Nor do I disagree that the club is in a dire state financially.
And I completely accept that the footie being served up (because of all the above) is crap.

But....

I have known that we are in the shit for a long time.
I fully expected us to have to go through a lot of pain whilst the economic decline was halted and hopefully reversed.
I don't expect much from this season


All because I am being realistic about our situation.

So when we get stuffed by teams like Watford, I'm not surprised by it.

And I don't try to guess "what the manager is thinking" or what conversations go on behind closed doors because there is no point - we'll never know.

IMO any anger about our current situation should be directed at the successive managers and directors who have brought us to this situation over the last 10 years or so. 


This thread is not about how shit we are or how shit the manager is - there are plenty of those already. This thread is about "is anyone actually surprised that we played shit on Saturday seeing as we already know we are shit and have said so a gazillion times?"

Hipster_Nebula wrote:are we a lot worse? You could make the argument we're no better, but Coyle left us in 18th. Dougie has had us finishing 7th and 14th. 

unless of course you think Coyle would have turned it all around and had us challenging year in year out. Which is fair enough, don't agree though.

No hipster; I don't think Coyle would have turned things around. I freely admit I supported him for too long as I did Megson before him. What I do think is that we are worse, both in terms of the quality of players we have and the lack of passion and commitment, lack of cohesion and lack of anything remotely resembling a unity of purpose than we've been since (and I say this sadly but in all honesty) Sammy Lee and possibly even John McGovern if not more so. 

As I said in my main post, I don't expect us to play like Barcelona every week or win every match by any means. I do expect to see a team with a common purpose doing its very best. We don't have that and that is getting worse as time goes on. Freedman finished 7th season before last. Last season we had the worst start anyone can remember and finished 14th. This season we've opened with a cringeworthy display and were lucky to lose 3-0. I'd say a clear trend is already showing and if anyone wants to refuse to see it so be it. 

I'd like to be wrong; I love this club and if Dougie can turn it around and get us at least giving us value for money I'd be delighted but it won't happen and I think we all know that. If you disagree so be it but the sad fact is that if Dougie stays till May next August will see us start life in League One. Call it hysteria if you want; I call it an honest assessment based on a clearly identifiable trend and clearly visible pattern.

Natasha Whittam wrote:Not many have picked up on the total lack of passion with in the team. You can sometimes get by with average players and limited managers, but if you don't have passion on the pitch you are doomed.

Do you think Ipswich lack passion?

Shut up about ipswich

Both Coyle and Megson had the luxury of supposedly premiership quality players to choose from so of course we're at a lower standard.

So what are you saying, Lusty?

Because we all know we're shit and skint, we should just go "Oh well....what can you do?", shrug our shoulders and not get angry about the situation?

wanderlust wrote:I totally understand your analogy about the quality of product on offer. It's shit. But if you have a bad meal at a restaurant you don't go back 78 times to tell them how shit it was. Because if you are going to use that analogy it's only reasonable to suggest that you don't go back. But this is a football club - and it's different from other products so your "paying customer" analogies are irrelevant unless you are actually prepared to vote with your feet.

lusty, if a restaurant was as bad at serving food as BWFC is at serving football the council would shut it down under the Food Safety Act mate. In fact it might not be permitted to call itself a restaurant due to the Trade Descriptions Act.  

More seriously, yes I think a lot of people ARE voting with their feet and I am one of them. And why should a football club be "different" to any other business that wants your money? Are you seriously suggesting that we don't have the right to expect some value for money because football clubs are "different" and somehow entitled to take our cash no matter what junk they put in front of us? As to going back 78 times? I wish; I've been back about 7800 times over the years but think of it this way; if a customer satisfaction survey was carried out by BWFC today what do you think the result would say? Would you personally say you're satisfied with the service you're getting or the entertainment on offer? Are you really saying you're happy to continue giving your money to them for this? 

In all honesty I don't want to fight with you; most of the time we have politely discussed and even agreed on many points but surely you cannot still cling to the belief that Dougie Freedman is the right man to manage this club right now? Surely even you can see that I've been clear and said it's not all his fault and Gartside should go with him. 

Gartside has made FOUR rotten appointments on the bounce and Freedman is clearly out of his depth and getting more so every season. BOTH men need to go, a decision that has been clearly needed for some time and is getting clearer every day.

It's all well and good for you lot to be saying that freedman should go but who the hell do you want to replace him? You can't keep sacking managers after one or two years, give the guy time to build something..

Boggersbelief wrote:It's all well and good for you lot to be saying that freedman should go but who the hell do you want to replace him? You can't keep sacking managers after one or two years, give the guy time to build something..

He is building something; a constant expectation of failure. Perhaps you think he should have more time to lower our hopes even further. I don't and believe the man who appointed him should go with him. I appreciate you and wanderlust have the right to stick in the pro-dougie camp but I think you're just plain wrong to do so. 

As to whom we replace Freedman with; well first I'd replace Gartside then start a serious search for a true long term replacement who will know before he/she starts exactly what the financial situation and other off field factors are and has a clear plan to make the best of them. If necessary I'd go with a caretaker all season to do that job right. 

Naturally that won't happen but in all honesty I think it or something like it needs to and soon.

Boggersbelief wrote:It's all well and good for you lot to be saying that freedman should go but who the hell do you want to replace him? You can't keep sacking managers after one or two years, give the guy time to build something..

He's building nothing. He says there's a long term plan then signs another player on loan.

Boggers, serious question:

Irrespective of all the behind the scenes stuff about getting the wage bill down and getting shut of Eagles and Knight and all that stuff, do you think Freedman is a good enough tactician, team picker, motivator, strategist, planner and all the other stuff associated with winning football matches?

And if so, what have you seen that I've missed, because he looks clueless and out of his depth to me?

Boggersbelief wrote:It's all well and good for you lot to be saying that freedman should go but who the hell do you want to replace him? You can't keep sacking managers after one or two years, give the guy time to build something..

Jiminiho, Phil Brown or Big Sam back.

same answers, every time.

Boggersbelief wrote:It's all well and good for you lot to be saying that freedman should go but who the hell do you want to replace him? You can't keep sacking managers after one or two years, give the guy time to build something..

 The only thing he's going to build is a bigger problem, get rid now before he starts, he's already proved he's not up to the task.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:are we a lot worse? You could make the argument we're no better, but Coyle left us in 18th. Dougie has had us finishing 7th and 14th. 

unless of course you think Coyle would have turned it all around and had us challenging year in year out. Which is fair enough, don't agree though.

Coyle left us in 18th after 10 games.

If you were to assume we'd finish last season in the same position we were in after 10 games, you'd have us relegated.

There's no saying if Dougie had started that first season in the Championship as manager, we wouldn't have had the same slow start as under Coyle. He didn't exactly "turn it around" overnight when he came in.

Personally, I don't think Coyle is a better overall manager than Freedman, but can anybody honestly say that the players are better motivated and the teamsheets are less ridiculous now than under Coyle?

Breadman wrote:So what are you saying, Lusty?

Because we all know we're shit and skint, we should just go "Oh well....what can you do?", shrug our shoulders and not get angry about the situation?

We could self-immolate with annoyance but it won't change anything Bread.

Writing about it on an internet forum? I don't think anything new has been said on the subject for weeks. After the Watford game we just got a regurgitated version of the criticisms leveled at Dougie, Gartside and the team before the match so what did we learn? Nothing as far as I could tell.

Pretty sure that the players and manager are aware of the situation and the fans feelings. The way they stuck McNaughton up to do the PR job was indicative of that.

We have the right to feel however we wish to feel about our situation but I think that the first step to rehabilitation is acceptance. 

I was just commenting on how difficult it must be for people who know we're shit but won't accept it.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Jiminiho, Phil Brown or Big Sam back.

same answers, every time.

Where are those answers on here? You made it up.

Breadman wrote:Boggers, serious question:

Irrespective of all the behind the scenes stuff about getting the wage bill down and getting shut of Eagles and Knight and all that stuff, do you think Freedman is a good enough tactician, team picker, motivator, strategist, planner and all the other stuff associated with winning football matches?

And if so, what have you seen that I've missed, because he looks clueless and out of his depth to me?

I agree that he has made mistakes regarding tactics and team selections but which manager hasn't? I have no doubt that he's a fantastic motivator, why else would players like feeney, mason and Mcnaughton want to return, it was only the other day that Mcnaughton was saying how he jumped at the chance to return and feeney said that freedman was the main reason he came back. 

Former team mates dervite and Beckford also chose to play under his guidance, speaks volumes about dougie imo.

Ok, so his mates like him.

What about the other stuff?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Jiminiho, Phil Brown or Big Sam back.

same answers, every time.

Where are those answers on here? You made it up.

They have been in the past, they are also consistently mentioned on twitter by fans if the question comes up.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

They have been in the past, they are also consistently mentioned on twitter by fans if the question comes up.

There are plenty of credible managers out there, I honestly couldn't see anyone being any worse than Freedman.

Glenn Hoddle would be ace.