Sam Allardyce to publish autobiography.

Just to get back to the business of the quality of the squad that Allardyce left us with:
Dzemaili never got a look in under Allardyce, even when he was fit.
Vaz Te was shit when he did play for us apart from the one goal in Portugal
Only Anelka was a "top four club" quality player and the other 5 were premiership quality players but would struggle to get into any of the top 4 sides.

Even if all those listed were able to play, we'd still be four or 5 short of a team - and IMO 9 or 10 players short of a top four team. And that's assuming that Dzemaili had stayed and realised the potential he later showed.

So how does Allardyce's claim that he only needed two players stack up?

Fact is it doesn't and the whole thing about "lack of ambition" is a cover story for his own inadequacies in failing to build the club whilst the sun was shining. He passed over the best opportunity in our history to consolidate our place at the top table. Instead, he protected his reputation and earning power by pissing off under the cover of darkness.. leaving us deep in the poo.

And he's not fit to clean Bruce's boots let alone be considered as our greatest ever manager.

wanderlust wrote:Just to get back to the business of the quality of the squad that Allardyce left us with:
Dzemaili never got a look in under Allardyce, even when he was fit.
Vaz Te was shit when he did play for us apart from the one goal in Portugal
Only Anelka was a "top four club" quality player and the other 5 were premiership quality players but would struggle to get into any of the top 4 sides.

Even if all those listed were able to play, we'd still be four or 5 short of a team - and IMO 9 or 10 players short of a top four team. And that's assuming that Dzemaili had stayed and realised the potential he later showed.

So how does Allardyce's claim that he only needed two players stack up?

Fact is it doesn't and the whole thing about "lack of ambition" is a cover story for his own inadequacies in failing to build the club whilst the sun was shining. He passed over the best opportunity in our history to consolidate our place at the top table. Instead, he protected his reputation and earning power by pissing off under the cover of darkness.. leaving us deep in the poo.

And he's not fit to clean Bruce's boots let alone be considered as our greatest ever manager.

There you go again, Dzemaili was only signed by Allardyce on a pre contract, and only joined in pre season, so your logic died right there in that one sentence, give  it up.

Some good little snippets in today's Sun. I am most certainly putting his book on my Xmas list. Interesting in his all time best eleven during his time at Wanderers. No room for Kevin Nolan or Campo.

MartinBWFC wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Just to get back to the business of the quality of the squad that Allardyce left us with:
Dzemaili never got a look in under Allardyce, even when he was fit.
Vaz Te was shit when he did play for us apart from the one goal in Portugal
Only Anelka was a "top four club" quality player and the other 5 were premiership quality players but would struggle to get into any of the top 4 sides.

Even if all those listed were able to play, we'd still be four or 5 short of a team - and IMO 9 or 10 players short of a top four team. And that's assuming that Dzemaili had stayed and realised the potential he later showed.

So how does Allardyce's claim that he only needed two players stack up?

Fact is it doesn't and the whole thing about "lack of ambition" is a cover story for his own inadequacies in failing to build the club whilst the sun was shining. He passed over the best opportunity in our history to consolidate our place at the top table. Instead, he protected his reputation and earning power by pissing off under the cover of darkness.. leaving us deep in the poo.

And he's not fit to clean Bruce's boots let alone be considered as our greatest ever manager.

There you go again, Dzemaili was only signed by Allardyce on a pre contract, and only joined in pre season, so your logic died right there in that one sentence, give  it up.

Seems a perfectly reasonable response to '74s statement that Dzemaili was part of Allardyce's legacy so no need for another tantrum. 
Either he was our player before he was loaned to Torino (according to '74) or he wasn't (according to you)
Either way, you're saying '74 is talking shite not me and my point about the squad Allardyce left is valid.

What I don't get is why Gartside would say we can't afford to be in Europe. I would have thought being in a European competition would bring revenue not lose it. I don't understand. Anyone shed any light?

I can, a bit. There are automatic wage increases if a team is in Europe, the costs of travel and accom are immense, stewarding requirements are raised, you have to register for the competition (not cheap), there is income share on some games, sponsors (unless European focused) do not consider it good value to plough money in for games so money is purely shared gate receipts. Even down to additional floodlight time for eve match, cost of different kit, constant physio with more matches, so many small things add up, and that is without a manager saying (rightly) squad needs more strength and depth.

Cheers mand, didn't think about it that way tbh. I did wonder if he was on about extra players that would be needed but not the rest. 

Another thing, if there was no money to give to Sam, how did we manage to afford the next few managers so much. We spent £21 million on Elmander, Ngog, Cahill and sordell alone. I know we sold Anelka for a profit but that doesn't cover the rest. We signed other players besides those four also.

Bwfc1958 wrote:Cheers mand, didn't think about it that way tbh. I did wonder if he was on about extra players that would be needed but not the rest. 

Another thing, if there was no money to give to Sam, how did we manage to afford the next few managers so much. We spent £21 million on Elmander, Ngog, Cahill and sordell alone. I know we sold Anelka for a profit but that doesn't cover the rest. We signed other players besides those four also.

The following season after Allardyce left the newest Sky three year contract kicked in and greatly increased what clubs got. If Sam had waited just another year he would have had all the money Megson went on to squander on such wonder signings as Knight and Elmander.

Also iirc correctly I read that clubs had to reach the semi-finals of the UEFA Cup before the winnings would offset the debts accrued of getting there.

It may have been great for the fans to be in Europe but it certainly is costly for the clubs.

wanderlust wrote:

MartinBWFC wrote:

wanderlust wrote:Just to get back to the business of the quality of the squad that Allardyce left us with:
Dzemaili never got a look in under Allardyce, even when he was fit.
Vaz Te was shit when he did play for us apart from the one goal in Portugal
Only Anelka was a "top four club" quality player and the other 5 were premiership quality players but would struggle to get into any of the top 4 sides.

Even if all those listed were able to play, we'd still be four or 5 short of a team - and IMO 9 or 10 players short of a top four team. And that's assuming that Dzemaili had stayed and realised the potential he later showed.

So how does Allardyce's claim that he only needed two players stack up?

Fact is it doesn't and the whole thing about "lack of ambition" is a cover story for his own inadequacies in failing to build the club whilst the sun was shining. He passed over the best opportunity in our history to consolidate our place at the top table. Instead, he protected his reputation and earning power by pissing off under the cover of darkness.. leaving us deep in the poo.

And he's not fit to clean Bruce's boots let alone be considered as our greatest ever manager.

There you go again, Dzemaili was only signed by Allardyce on a pre contract, and only joined in pre season, so your logic died right there in that one sentence, give  it up.

Seems a perfectly reasonable response to '74s statement that Dzemaili was part of Allardyce's legacy so no need for another tantrum. 
Either he was our player before he was loaned to Torino (according to '74) or he wasn't (according to you)
Either way, you're saying '74 is talking shite not me and my point about the squad Allardyce left is valid.

Dzemaili was part of Allardyce's 'legacy' picking up one of European football's brightest talents, on a free showed how far we'd come as a club and I think was indicative of Allardyce moving into a different direction.

To say in response that Allardyce barely played a player who he never had the option to is a ridiculous response Lust.

I won't labour the point but even if Dzemaili was a genuine option for the next manager we were still very short of players who could realistically compete for a CL place and yet Allardyce claimed he left because he was refused the money to buy just the two players he claimed he needed.

I think Manda summarises the financial issues well and I think that in addition some of the players would expect to receive bonuses just for playing in Europe. 

I honestly think Allardyce was planning to follow the money anyway otherwise he'd have sat down with the Board and discussed cashflow to ascertain when it was likely he'd have what to spend - which as Sluffy points out wasn't too bad a scenario as it turned out. His disloyalty after everything we did for him is why he lost my respect.

so i take it his book won't be on your Christmas list then Lusty? 

I'm not disputing any of that, I'm only pointing out that you're analysis of Dzemaili as hardly playing under Allardyce is completely false.

The rest about Europe etc. I don't disagree with really, that squad would have needed a ridiculous amount of investment to actually get Champions League. 

But that doesn't change the fact that he left us with a very good squad of players at decent ages, there was a hell of a lot there for a new manager to work with. Gartside went cheap though, there was no proper succession plan in place and clearly the investment wasn't there from Davies judging by the players Lee signed.

at the time i didn't really have an issue with Sammy Lee taking over but when he tried to change the playing style and formation so quickly it backfired because the players just couldn't cope with such a massive change.

I'm never a fan of appointing Assistant Managers to be honest, they're often the softer get on with the players types and I think they struggle to win over the players respect. Judging by the teams performances for Lee, I don't think they had much respect for him.

Norpig wrote:so i take it his book won't be on your Christmas list then Lusty? 

He's had enough of my hard-earned dosh already and anyway I can practically guarantee it will be a homage to himself peppered with a few digs at his usual targets i.e. Garty, the England Manager selection Board and any of the top clubs that didn't want to employ him, all sweetened by lashings of nostalgic claptrap about how "little old Bolton" showed the big boys a thing or two.
Absolutely nothing will be mentioned about the fantastic set up he inherited or how Bolton made the reputation he's been trading on ever since, the ungrateful sod. 

I could write the book for the teflon-coated tw@t myself so I'll be saving my money.

wanderlust wrote: 

I could write the book for the teflon-coated tw@t myself

May I suggest 'Musings From My Armchair' as a title.

Like it or not, he's our most successful manager of modern times.

bwfc1874 wrote:I'm never a fan of appointing Assistant Managers to be honest, they're often the softer get on with the players types and I think they struggle 

What a ridiculous thing to say. The majority of world class managers started as assistants.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

wanderlust wrote: 

I could write the book for the teflon-coated tw@t myself

May I suggest 'Musings From My Armchair' as a title.

Wa-hey! New material!

Hang on. For a second there I imagined you'd had an original thought.

Didn't you know? I'm Bolton's most famous fan Phil Gartside so I've seen more games than anyone apparently.

However this is Cowardyce's book so perhaps a more appropriate title might be "The Importance of Being Me"

Boggersbelief wrote:What a ridiculous thing to say. The majority of world class managers started as assistants.

Out of Klopp, LVG, Guardiola, Ancelotti and Mourinho, how many started out as Assistants?

1 - Mourinho at Benfica.

I see your point though, some top managers will be assistants as part of a learning curve. Spend too long in those roles though and it becomes very difficult to get out of it IMO.