When do you think a deal will be done

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that the one bloke that plenty of us are looking to for some "truth" on all this is called Nixon?

Nixon must be hiding in Eddie's knicker draw, he knows his shit.

 What a load of old rubbish.

Trust me If we had Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos fighting over a deal we'd still pick Dean Holdsworth and the criminal.

Obviously I'm as clueless as anybody else. But my heavily simplified version of events at the moment is -

Eddie pulls all funding from the club, to try and force a buyer to save us from 'oblivion' - and save him from having to plunder more of his fortune into wages and taxes.

The buyers; instead of jumping in with money they clearly don't have, are instead gambling that Eddie's bluffing and will pay the players off/HMRC at the last minute. Shaving a good £5 million off the initial outlay.

Meaning we're stuck in deadlock for 2 weeks waiting to find out if Eddie will pay or not, which by all accounts (Nixon) would be better than having to go into a very messy admin situation.

Basically Eddie's bent over a barrel IMO.

If you were buying the club would you pay the players for the. previous 2 month?

It's like selling my house and saying to the new owner you have to pay my council tax and electricity bill for the last year.

Barb Dwyer wrote:If you were buying the club would you pay the players for the. previous 2 month?

It's like selling my house and saying to the new owner you have to pay my council tax and electricity bill for the last year.

If I was buying your house I'd happily pay your council tax and leccy bill.
It wouldn't make any odds as long as you knocked it off the price Barb - and knocked off a bit extra for my time sorting out your affairs for you.
I think buyers have to consider it in the same way they should consider the prospect of administration i.e. whilst they'd be able buy the club for less, there wouldn't be much left to buy after the administrator's firesale so they have a vested interest in making sure the bills are paid.
All parties benefit from retaining value in the club at this point and that includes playing staff.

So ED's gambling with the club's future because he doesn't fancy shelling out for a tax bill and a load of back-pay that he's legally liable for because he knows that he can threaten the potential buyers with putting the club into administration and thus devalue their acquisition if they don't pay the bills for him.

Bills which he and his "gravely ill" mate, Gartside have run up.

Yeah, the man personifies the very definition of the word "altruist", doesn't he?

Breadman wrote:So ED's gambling with the club's future because he doesn't fancy shelling out for a tax bill and a load of back-pay that he's legally liable for because he knows that he can threaten the potential buyers with putting the club into administration and thus devalue their acquisition if they don't pay the bills for him.

Bills which he and his "gravely ill" mate, Gartside have run up.

Yeah, the man personifies the very definition of the word "altruist", doesn't he?

Not quite following you here D. 
How's he gambling with the club's future? Surely he's just trying to negotiate a deal? I suppose any negotiation could be described as "gambling" but there's little doubt he wants out and is therefore determined to sell so I don't think he's obstructing a sale - quite the opposite.

If there's a barrier on EDs side logically it's either because he is greedy and wants more out of it personally or because he loves the club and is seeking assurances for the club - or both - but we have no idea if that's the case or not.

And even if he has put up a barrier, it's likely to come down very quickly as our plight worsens.

surely he is gambling with the clubs future if he refuses to pay the players and the tax bill? The next step would be administration and players would be free to leave with 2 weeks notice.

I'm not very business minded (thats why i work in the NHS  ) so a lot of the financial stuff goes over my head so i may be being thick here but things would be an awful lot clearer if Davies actually opened his trap for once and told us what the hold up is and what is happening. Leaving us to feed on carefully planned and worded titbits from Birch is not helping.

I'm not convinced, M.

He (or more likely) the people he answers to at Mooshift made a conscious decision to stop putting any money into the club over a year ago.

And it's looking increasingly likely that that extended to paying basic bills like Tax and VAT.

So he's had plenty of time to safeguard the club's future by reducing his asking price and inviting in potential buyers but he hasn't, has he?

If we believe Stelios (and why wouldn't we?) his lot submitted a proposal back in January but didn't even receive the courtesy of a formal response.

No, he's waited until it's almost too late before anything's started in earnest.

And it's just my gut feeling but I honestly get the impression that if push came to shove, the people at Moonshift would let the club go into administration rather than pay the bill themselves because they really, really don't want to put any more money in.

If they did, they would have avoided the PR disaster of the non-playing staff not receiving their Christmas wages on time.

I have the utmost respect for Rammy's knowledge and expertise in this matter but what I simply can't see is how any bidder would have a business plan that could afford to pay £30 million to buy the club and a further £15 million of working capital to keep the club going until the end July 2016 - and still be financially viable as an investment.

Even if Davies sold his stake for just £1, I still can see the return on paying £15 million to end up at best with a bottom half of the table Championship side, or more likely a newly relegated to the third tier club by the end of July next year.

Whoever buys the club at this stage must have very deep pockets and not looking for a quick return on their investment.

I simply can't see that as an attractive investment for anyone.

Therefore I can't see the hold up being on Davies side - more likely the bidders simply can't find anyone to back them with investment they need for working capital to keep the club going until they can turn it around to profitability.

Norpig wrote:surely he is gambling with the clubs future if he refuses to pay the players and the tax bill? The next step would be administration and players would be free to leave with 2 weeks notice.

I'm not very business minded (thats why i work in the NHS  ) so a lot of the financial stuff goes over my head so i may be being thick here but things would be an awful lot clearer if Davies actually opened his trap for once and told us what the hold up is and what is happening. Leaving us to feed on carefully planned and worded titbits from Birch is not helping.

But ED is no more personally responsible for paying the players or the tax bill than the potential bidders are.

It's BWFC Ltd that is responsible for these bills. 

If I asked you to invest a £million to buy a 95% share in my kebab shop and then I ran it into the ground, how would you feel if I turned around and asked for more money to keep it going? Would you feel personally responsible for paying the bills that kebab shop ltd had run up? Don't think so. You'd be furious that I'd let things get so bad and tell me to eff off - and that you were going to sell your goddamn shares in the kebab shop because you'd damned well lost enough already.

Where's Boggers? I need someone to tell me everything is going to be alright 

Come on now, M.

That takes us back to the argument about Gartside being 100% culpable for this mess and ED having been in the dark for the last ten years.

And, again, I simply don't buy that.

ED and Gartside have worked hand in glove for years - they must have otherwise when the money was getting pissed down the tubes on Gavin McCann and Keet Andrews, ED would surely have said "Enough!" sooner?

Or he's properly a stupid man.

Which I don't think he is.

Sluffy wrote:I have the utmost respect for Rammy's knowledge and expertise in this matter but what I simply can't see is how any bidder would have a business plan that could afford to pay £30 million to buy the club and a further £15 million of working capital to keep the club going until the end July 2016 - and still be financially viable as an investment.

Even if Davies sold his stake for just £1, I still can see the return on paying £15 million to end up at best with a bottom half of the table Championship side, or more likely a newly relegated to the third tier club by the end of July next year.

Whoever buys the club at this stage must have very deep pockets and not looking for a quick return on their investment.

I simply can't see that as an attractive investment for anyone.

Therefore I can't see the hold up being on Davies side - more likely the bidders simply can't find anyone to back them with investment they need for working capital to keep the club going until they can turn it around to profitability.

Sluffy,-I was presenting that as a possible scenario. If Davies wants £30 mill for his controlling shareholding in the club then that money would all go to him. The club then needs a further £15 mill injected to keep it afloat. That's a possible interpretation of what could be happening - if ED is digging his heels in.
But you're quite correct- it would be insane for any investors to stump up £45 mill in total for what is effectively a basket case.
In fact any one who does buy a football club needs psychiatric help.
I suspect that it will be more like Eddy wants £15mill with the balance of £15 mill being invested in the club as working capital by the new owners.
But to be honest- I'm as much in the dark as anyone else.
But one thing is for sure-and that no one on this website has any legal right to be told anything . We are interested in the club as supporters- a sort of social contract with the club. But as none of us are employees or shareholders ,then legally they don't have to tell us anything. Some of us are customers( the ones who go to the games and stump up the cash) but that's all we are-external third parties with absolutely no rights whatsoever to be informed of what's happening.

Barb Dwyer wrote:Where's Boggers?

He's the one in the Star Wars hoodie shouting: "Come on, sort it! My cred on Nuts depends on this deal happening!"

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Holdsworth's the one on the floor looking confused.

Worst case (but eminently possible) scenario for me is:

Moonshift have had enough (as detailed in my previous comment).

Holdsworth and his crew are just a front for some very dodgy people indeed (I don't give a shit what Iles, Boggers or anybody else says, a picture is worth a hundred words and the one with DH and that Disley bastard in it is still worrying me now).

So even if the club does get sold, it's to a bunch of asset-stripping wankers who flog off what they can over the next twelve months and leave us screwed in League One with no ground, training facilities, hotel or any players worth a carrot.

(Buy the club for £15 million, spend nowt, flog the property assets for £40 million, run away.)

Unless one of the other interested consortia involves someone properly wealthy who is prepared to throw money at the situation, I think we're already in real trouble irrespective of what happens next.

My guess is the "real" debt is a lot more than people know about.

wanderlust wrote:

Norpig wrote:surely he is gambling with the clubs future if he refuses to pay the players and the tax bill? The next step would be administration and players would be free to leave with 2 weeks notice.

I'm not very business minded (thats why i work in the NHS  ) so a lot of the financial stuff goes over my head so i may be being thick here but things would be an awful lot clearer if Davies actually opened his trap for once and told us what the hold up is and what is happening. Leaving us to feed on carefully planned and worded titbits from Birch is not helping.

But ED is no more personally responsible for paying the players or the tax bill than the potential bidders are.

It's BWFC Ltd that is responsible for these bills. 

If I asked you to invest a £million to buy a 95% share in my kebab shop and then I ran it into the ground, how would you feel if I turned around and asked for more money to keep it going? Would you feel personally responsible for paying the bills that kebab shop ltd had run up? Don't think so. You'd be furious that I'd let things get so bad and tell me to eff off - and that you were going to sell your goddamn shares in the kebab shop because you'd damned well lost enough already.

Well said Lusty- its about time that someone demolished this argument that ED is personally responsible for paying all the clubs liabilities. The players are employed by BWFC Ltd and not by Eddy Davies.. He is simply the majority shareholder. 
As an analogy- I own shares in Marks & Spencer-me and thousands of others. But I don't personally employ any of its employees- M&S does. I'm not responsible for paying them or paying the tax bill. Its the company (M&S in which I'm a shareholder ) which is responsible. The onus in corporate governance lies with the directors who have day to day responsibility for the business who carry that responsibility. ED (as far as I'm aware) is not a director and therefore bears no responsibility in law for paying the bills. You might suggest that he has a moral responsibility and you may be right. But there is a chasm between moral responsibility and legal responsibiity

Breadman wrote:Come on now, M.

That takes us back to the argument about Gartside being 100% culpable for this mess and ED having been in the dark for the last ten years.

And, again, I simply don't buy that.

ED and Gartside have worked hand in glove for years - they must have otherwise when the money was getting pissed down the tubes on Gavin McCann and Keet Andrews, ED would surely have said "Enough!" sooner?

Or he's properly a stupid man.

Which I don't think he is.

Ok if he aint a 'really really stupid' man explain then why the fuck he persevered for years with Gartside at the helm when it was obvious to the dogs on the street that he was dragging the club down, refusing to acknowledge his mistakes and alienating his 'customer (fan) base' at the same time- what was his objective? to get to where we are now? It certainly doesn't make me think he's a very bright man