Manslaughter Bullshit

I blame the Tories. Years ago nearly every county had a full time operational mental hospital. People who were sectioned by doctors were taken there for evaluation and if they were deemed a risk to others they ended up staying there permanently.

Bridgewater Hospital covered Greater Manchester and Winwick covered Cheshire. A work colleague of mine who was due to retire in a couple of weeks had a nervous breakdown one night and ended up running naked down Church Road in Urmston at 3am in the morning in the middle of winter. The bloke was in his fifties at the time. The police and paramedics turned out and found him. One of the paramedics was a friend of his son and they knew one another! As my work colleague was being strapped in the ambulance to be taken to Bridgewater he shouted to the paramedic, ' Are you coming to my retirement do ?'

He ended up spending a week in Bridgewater for psychiatric assessment and was then released in time for his leaving do.

As part of the cutbacks the Tories introduced a policy called ' Care in the Community'. Bridgewater Hospital was sold to private developers who flattened it and built luxury apartments.

Most of the previous residents were given sheltered hosing or council flats with minimum medical supervision. This nearly always involved a ' carer ' going round to make sure they had taken their medication or doing their shopping for them.

One such lady who was a former resident ended up being housed in some flats in Eccles run by a Housing Association. She ended up stabbing and killing an elderly resident.

Care in the Community was really about saving money in the hope that family, friends and neighbours would look after the vulnerable ex residents of the likes of Bridgewater.

It was cynically sold to the public as being a 'great opportunity for independent living.'

largehat wrote:
Not all mentally ill people who commit serious crimes are like Ian Brady, some of them can be safely letout after suitable rehabilitation.

Are you seriously saying that cold blooded killers who are deemed mentally ill should be let back onto the streets just because some quack says they are rehabilitated?

It's basically someone guessing at the mental state of another human being. It is total guess work. Psychiatry is the biggest load of bullshit ever.

I wouont describe, say, a woman who stabs her abusive husband to death after years of torture and bullying, someone who just reaches a breaking point, as "a cold blooded killer", so it's a stupid question.

largehat wrote:I wouont describe, say, a woman who stabs her abusive husband to death after years of torture and bullying, someone who just reaches a breaking point, as "a cold blooded killer", so it's a stupid question.

When I say cold blooded killer I am talking about someone who kills a complete stranger for no reason. So it's not a stupid question.

It is a stupid question because if murder is committed in cold blood, it's not a crime of passion or driven by mental health issues. It's done fully aware of one's actions and their repercussions.

You can dramatise it all you like Nat but your 'lock everybody up and throw away the key" mentality is 150 years out of date, it's the kind of attitude championed by populist right-wing commentators with a lynch mob mentality and it driven by total ignorance of the human condition.

It's the same with your line about psychiatry. You don't know anything about it, it is inconvenient to your Victorian notion of justice, so you dismiss it as "bullshit".

largehat wrote:It is a stupid question because if murder is committed in cold blood, it's not a crime of passion or driven by mental health issues. It's done fully aware of one's actions and their repercussions.

You can dramatise it all you like Nat but your 'lock everybody up and throw away the key" mentality is 150 years out of date, it's the kind of attitude championed by populist right-wing commentators with a lynch mob mentality and it driven by total ignorance of the human condition.

It's the same with your line about psychiatry. You don't know anything about it, it is inconvenient to your Victorian notion of justice, so you dismiss it as "bullshit".

Right, so mentally ill people never kill random people do they.

And of course psychiatry is a load of old bollocks, I find it quite ironic that you defend it when you're not prepared to accept ghosts/aliens etc on the other thread. They are ultimately the same thing.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Right, so mentally ill people never kill random people do they.

I never said that, did I. People's circumstances and the circumstances of their crimes should be treated on a case-by-case basis. Your argument is

'murderer = scum = punish'

but within the act of murder there are so many individual factors to consider, that you're not interested in. I'm sorry Nat but this is like having a discussion with a 5 year old.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
And of course psychiatry is a load of old bollocks, I find it quite ironic that you defend it when you're not prepared to accept ghosts/aliens etc on the other thread. They are ultimately the same thing.

I'm now convinced that you haven't got the slightest idea what psychiatry is.

largehat wrote:

I'm now convinced that you haven't got the slightest idea what psychiatry is.

Of course I do, Frasier is my favourite programme.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:

I'm now convinced that you haven't got the slightest idea what psychiatry is.

Of course I do, Frasier is my favourite programme.

Held a lot of seances did he? Get the ouija board out and dimmed the lights when someone came to him with mental health issues? Drew pentagrams on the ground?

largehat wrote:

I'm now convinced that you haven't got the slightest idea what psychiatry is.

My Dad made me see a psychiatrist when I was 15, she was the best in the business and it cost something like £200 per hour.

I spent the whole time taking the complete piss, I had her convinced my behavior was down to me being forced to take a wee in the bushes at Moor Park when I was 12.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
My Dad made me see a psychiatrist when I was 15, she was the best in the business and it cost something like £200 per hour.

I spent the whole time taking the complete piss, I had her convinced my behavior was down to me being forced to take a wee in the bushes at Moor Park when I was 12.

That's a charming image Nat but you've not quite demonstrated that psychiatry and ghosts are ultimately the same thing.

largehat wrote:

That's a charming image Nat but you've not quite demonstrated that psychiatry and ghosts are ultimately the same thing.

Plnety of people believe in them both, but there's no proof that either exists.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Plnety of people believe in them both, but there's no proof that either exists.

So you don't think there's any proof that psychiatry exists? This is what you are saying? Sigmund Freud is like Santa Claus is he?

largehat wrote:

So you don't think there's any proof that psychiatry exists? This is what you are saying? Sigmund Freud is like Santa Claus is he?

Fair enough, there are plenty of people with certificates that state they are psychiatrists, so I guess that technically they exist.

Let's say psychiatrists are more like ghost catchers then. They exist, but the job they claim to be doing is made up.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Fair enough, there are plenty of people with certificates that state they are psychiatrists, so I guess that technically they exist.

Let's say psychiatrists are more like ghost catchers then. They exist, but the job they claim to be doing is made up.

I'll tell that to my best mate whose girlfriend is bi-polar.

I'll tell him to get her sectioned again because even though she had a complete breakdown in March and spent 3 months sectioned under the mental health act, and is now back to 'normal' with her illness under control, it's a totally ineffective branch of science. Even though she had completely lost her cognitive reasoning ability before and she has it back after.

No in fact, fuck sectioning her, I'll tell him to get her locked up for life.

When a sexually perverted rapist goes onto the streets and attacks an innocent women, there can be no excuse for his behaviour.

The defence lawyers come up with a load of bullshit that at the time he was suffering from diminished responsibility because he was a cokehead or pissed out of his brains or suffering fron depression etc etc ( ) Leave whatever excuse in the brackets.

The reality is , that the guy was a fucking nasty piece of work who just wanted to live out his sexual urges and didn't give a fuck about his ' victim.'

The defence theory is to lead us to believe that the defendant was so mentally deranged and unstable at the time of his discretion that he somehow wasn't reponsible!

Give us all a break FFS. If he was that out of touch with reality why didn't he attack and sexually assault his daughter, or his wife, or his mother, or Granny ( whatever floats your boat )
These sexual predators leave their homes in the morning and kiss their wife and children and say goodbye to them before they go out and commit horrific crimes against people, that they don't even know!

That is because they have no emotional attachment to their victims. They do not want any. If they had emotional attachment they couldn't carry out their evil deeds.

Mankind will always be a permanent victim of ' sins of the flesh.' It's just how we are wired up. In my younger days I would often be driving along and see a young filly walking by and think to myself, " I would love to give her one."

Once you cross the line and attack someone purely for sexual gratification you have crossed the boundary to the dark side.

There can be no excuses. Without consent there can be no mutual copulation.

largehat wrote:

I'll tell that to my best mate whose girlfriend is bi-polar.

I'll tell him to get her sectioned again because even though she had a complete breakdown in March and spent 3 months sectioned under the mental health act, and is now back to 'normal' with her illness under control, it's a totally ineffective branch of science. Even though she had completely lost her cognitive reasoning ability before and she has it back after.

No in fact, fuck sectioning her, I'll tell him to get her locked up for life.

What's that got to do with psychiatry? Some doctor gave her a load of drugs so her illness is under control.

Good post RT, you should email that to your pal Richard Littlejohn who lacks your understanding of the subject.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
What's that got to do with psychiatry? Some doctor gave her a load of drugs so her illness is under control.

How did they determine what drugs to give her Nat?

What do you think they did when they weren't giving her drugs? Chained her up? You don't think they conducted any evaluations?

On the subject of psychiatry I had lunch today with Dr Richard ( Dick ) Badcock who is based at Rampton and he might just sponsor Brother Dar for July!