Homelargehat wrote:
How did they determine what drugs to give her Nat?
What do you think they did when they weren't giving her drugs? Chained her up? You don't think they conducted any evaluations?
All done by a doctor, not a Frasier type.
Message [Page 3 of 3]
41 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Tue Jun 26 2012, 23:11
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
All done by a doctor, not a Frasier type.
42 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Tue Jun 26 2012, 23:14
largehat
Frank Worthington
Natasha Whittam wrote:
All done by a doctor, not a Frasier type.
All done by practising psychiatrists. I think I win this one, don't you?
43 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 09:31
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
largehat wrote:
All done by practising psychiatrists. I think I win this one, don't you?
You're missing the point, probably on purpose to score cheap points.
Psychiatrists are just fancy doctors who are guessing whether someone is fit to enter society. Fine, they might get it right most of the time, but do you think that's of any consolation to the random person who gets killed by one of these mentally ill people?
Plus, in a lot of cases these mentally ill people are trusted to medicate themselves. That's just asking for trouble.
While I accept most mentally ill people are perfectly safe when medicated, I don't think it's worth the risk to let them out on the streets if they'e killed in cold blood before, because no one, not even you Largehat, know whether someone will kill again. Better to be safe than sorry.
44 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 13:28
largehat
Frank Worthington
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Psychiatrists are just fancy doctors who are guessing whether someone is fit to enter society. Fine, they might get it right most of the time, but do you think that's of any consolation to the random person who gets killed by one of these mentally ill people?
What are we actually discussing in this thread? Last night you said psychiatry was ultimately the same as people communicating with ghosts and the like. Today you accept it exists and is largely effective, even if you express that view strangely and in the context of guesswork.
At what point have I claimed psychiatry is perfect or flawless or cures everyone? I haven't.
I've also never argued that the mentally ill should be completely excused for any crime them commit under duress during a period or episode of proven cognitive instability. Like any other type of mitigation, it should be taken into consideration, but the priority should always be the safety of the public at large. It's not an exact science but it is better in every way than treating mentally ill people with contempt and pretending they are all just as bad as the idiot from Salford.
So your question doesn't make much sense. Do you think if they lock away this wanker from Salford who shot the Indian lad for 50 years it will be 'any consolation' to the Indian student? He's dead.
Natasha Whittam wrote:
Plus, in a lot of cases these mentally ill people are trusted to medicate themselves. That's just asking for trouble.
While I accept most mentally ill people are perfectly safe when medicated, I don't think it's worth the risk to let them out on the streets if they'e killed in cold blood before, because no one, not even you Largehat, know whether someone will kill again. Better to be safe than sorry.
I think our discussion is nearing an end. Your use of the phrase "in cold blood" is completely contradictory to someone who kills because they are mentally incapable, remember about 20 posts ago when I gave an example of an abused woman? No point repeating myself ad infinitum if you're not reading my posts is there?
If someone has been to prison after committing murder while mentally ill, they are supervised in the community Natasha. They're not given a bottle of pills and sent on their way.
The law in this country is not based on a principle of keeping people incarcerated 'just in case'. Lets keep the Pakistani cricketers in prison until they are too old to play cricket again 'just in case' they are tempted to match fix again.
45 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 14:45
Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
largehat wrote:
Lets keep the Pakistani cricketers in prison until they are too old to play cricket again 'just in case' they are tempted to match fix again.
Good idea.There is no room for cheating in sport.
46 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 15:31
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
largehat wrote:
The law in this country is not based on a principle of keeping people incarcerated 'just in case'. Lets keep the Pakistani cricketers in prison until they are too old to play cricket again 'just in case' they are tempted to match fix again.
No, but I would keep all killers in prison 'just in case'.
47 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 16:06
largehat
Frank Worthington
Natasha Whittam wrote:
No, but I would keep all killers in prison 'just in case'.
Ok, what about this guy?
48 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 16:38
Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Good choice LH. Freemans character is a good example of rehabilitation.
49 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 17:13
largehat
Frank Worthington
I don't know about that, he's filmed committing criminal damage and violating his parole conditions by visiting Mexico. Natasha will argue he goes on a mass killing spree in Zihuatanejo.
50 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 17:19
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
largehat wrote:
Ok, what about this guy?
That's the President of the USA isn't it? He's not a killer.
51 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 17:21
largehat
Frank Worthington
Natasha Whittam wrote:largehat wrote:
Ok, what about this guy?
That's the President of the USA isn't it? He's not a killer.
No, this is the President. I accept there is a passing resemblance.
52 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 17:27
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
They look the same to me.
You'll need to give better examples in the future.
You'll need to give better examples in the future.
53 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 17:30
largehat
Frank Worthington
Natasha Whittam wrote:They look the same to me.
You'll need to give better examples in the future.
Oh right, you mistake an elderly prisoner for the leader of the free world, and it's my fault for giving bad examples. I see how that works.
54 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Wed Jun 27 2012, 18:00
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
largehat wrote: and it's my fault for giving bad examples.
I accept your apology.
55 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Thu Jul 26 2012, 15:03
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Natasha Whittam wrote:I don't know if you've been following the Kiaran Stapleton case, but I find it one of the most reprehensible crimes I've read about in a long time.
Basically, this dickhead walked upto a complete stranger, an Indian student by the name of Anuj Bidve, and shot him in the head. No warning, no disagreement, just walked up to him and pulled the trigger.
Stapleton has admitted the crime, but is claiming manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. Apparently he'd had an argument with his girlfriend.
Can you fucking believe that?
This is exactly the sort of person who should face a firing squad, not get off on a reduced charge.
Surely we are all united on this one. Walking upto a complete stranger and killing them is MURDER, regardless of any circumstances.
The good news is that Kiaran Stapleton has today been found guilty of MURDER. Enjoy prison.
56 Re: Manslaughter Bullshit Thu Jul 26 2012, 15:08
largehat
Frank Worthington
largehat wrote:Lets see what he gets convicted of before being outraged. I don't think it's going to wash.
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