Corbyn re-elected

Young Breadman .

The Boat dream is over, he's dreaming of living in a converted barn on a little island now, isn't he?

scottjames30 wrote:The Boat dream is over, he's dreaming of living in a converted barn on a little island now, isn't he?

The last I heard he was trying to rent some land deep in the jungle. The housing isn't up to much,but you're guaranteed never to lose a pencil.

Hahahaha it's better than putting it behind your ear.

scottjames30 wrote:Hahahaha it's better than putting it behind your ear.

We all know where KP would put it.

boltonbonce wrote:

scottjames30 wrote:Hahahaha it's better than putting it behind your ear.

We all know where KP would put it.

In his pencil case?

Hahaha, you should go on 'Hunted', Bonce.
If they came round to your house and hacked into your laptop, they'll be thinking to themselves ' fuck trying to find him'

Many people have regretted finding me.

Boncey would be easy to find on Hunted, just check all the local A&E's

Natasha Whittam wrote:1874 has just been ripped a new arsehole by several posters, they've made him look a right knob.

Somebody had to spark conversation on here it's been dryer than WGO's love life for weeks now.

Hahaha

xmiles wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:Seriously depressing watching question time last night. Yes it was in Boston, but the tone of the immigration debate has changed. Whereas before we saw politicians making the case for immigration (for which there is a strong one) it now seems to be regarded as political suicide to do so, the audience went wild at any suggestion that wasn't in line with - 'immigrants are to blame for all of our problems'.

Fair play to Corbyn for having principles and sticking to them, I fear the narrative in this country has already swung too far to the right though. With UKIP paling into insignificance the Tories could end up picking up those voters who see being tough on immigration the be all and end all.

This constant talk of Corbyn being a man of principle is bollocks. Look at his behaviour over the EU referendum or his farcical claim that there were no seats available on the train. Also look at the way he tolerates his supporters abusing Labour MPs who don't support him.

If he is a man of principle how can he object to other MPs following their principles by opposing him? After all to quote wiki "Between 1997 and 2010, during the most recent Labour Government, Corbyn was the Labour MP who voted most often against the party whip, including three-line whip votes. In 2005 he was identified as the second most rebellious Labour MP of all time when the party was in government. He was the most rebellious Labour MP in the 1997–2001 Parliament, the 2001–2005 Parliament and the 2005–2010 Parliament, defying the whip 428 times while Labour was in power."

I don't see your point on this one to be honest. 

I'm not a fan of his stance on the EU but he said he was 7 out of 10 when asked how keen he was on Europe, and spent the referendum campaign talking up what he saw as the positives of the EU - workers rights, environmental policy, immigration. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with everything he says on the EU, it doesn't illustrate a lack of principle on his part.

As for not voting the same way as the party, doesn't that show he sticks to his principles? Voting against the Iraq war for instance or the creation of a healthcare private market (I forget what the act was)? If he's openly voted against his own principles just to spite Blair's government then I haven't heard about it - which doesn't mean it didn't happen of course!

King Bill wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:Seriously depressing watching question time last night. Yes it was in Boston, but the tone of the immigration debate has changed. Whereas before we saw politicians making the case for immigration (for which there is a strong one) it now seems to be regarded as political suicide to do so, the audience went wild at any suggestion that wasn't in line with - 'immigrants are to blame for all of our problems'.

Fair play to Corbyn for having principles and sticking to them, I fear the narrative in this country has already swung too far to the right though. With UKIP paling into insignificance the Tories could end up picking up those voters who see being tough on immigration the be all and end all.

We've all got principles. The thing is Corbyn's principles aren't in tune with the millions of Labour voters that now vote UKIP and/or Tory.

How can this party get re-elected ? It cannot win back its' own voters, let alone the floating voters needed for an outright majority. 

UKIP has not palled into insignificance. It will continue to be around until Labour sorts itself out, and watching Corbyn's and his cult faction singing 'The Red Flag' at the end of Conference,  that could be years away.

Completeley agree (apart from the UKIP part - I think they'll decline), I'm expressing how disappointed I am that those views now make a party 'insignificant' in the mind of the electorate, whereas actually I think it's perfectly rational. 

Public opinion does not always have the right answer.

bwfc1874 wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:1874 has just been ripped a new arsehole by several posters, they've made him look a right knob.

Somebody had to spark conversation on here it's been dryer than WGO's love life for weeks now.

Leave my love life out of this fuckwit, it's fine thank you I knocked one out only last November as it happens.

bwfc1874 wrote:

xmiles wrote:

bwfc1874 wrote:Seriously depressing watching question time last night. Yes it was in Boston, but the tone of the immigration debate has changed. Whereas before we saw politicians making the case for immigration (for which there is a strong one) it now seems to be regarded as political suicide to do so, the audience went wild at any suggestion that wasn't in line with - 'immigrants are to blame for all of our problems'.

Fair play to Corbyn for having principles and sticking to them, I fear the narrative in this country has already swung too far to the right though. With UKIP paling into insignificance the Tories could end up picking up those voters who see being tough on immigration the be all and end all.

This constant talk of Corbyn being a man of principle is bollocks. Look at his behaviour over the EU referendum or his farcical claim that there were no seats available on the train. Also look at the way he tolerates his supporters abusing Labour MPs who don't support him.

If he is a man of principle how can he object to other MPs following their principles by opposing him? After all to quote wiki "Between 1997 and 2010, during the most recent Labour Government, Corbyn was the Labour MP who voted most often against the party whip, including three-line whip votes. In 2005 he was identified as the second most rebellious Labour MP of all time when the party was in government. He was the most rebellious Labour MP in the 1997–2001 Parliament, the 2001–2005 Parliament and the 2005–2010 Parliament, defying the whip 428 times while Labour was in power."

I don't see your point on this one to be honest. 

I'm not a fan of his stance on the EU but he said he was 7 out of 10 when asked how keen he was on Europe, and spent the referendum campaign talking up what he saw as the positives of the EU - workers rights, environmental policy, immigration. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with everything he says on the EU, it doesn't illustrate a lack of principle on his part.

As for not voting the same way as the party, doesn't that show he sticks to his principles? Voting against the Iraq war for instance or the creation of a healthcare private market (I forget what the act was)? If he's openly voted against his own principles just to spite Blair's government then I haven't heard about it - which doesn't mean it didn't happen of course!

I don't think we are very far apart in our views. My problem with Corbyn is that I don't feel his heart was in the Remain campaign. He wouldn't appear on platforms with Tory politicians and frankly every time he spoke he came across as just reading somebody else's speech which he didn't agree with. I would not be surprised if he actually voted Brexit particularly given his previous views on the EU.

And yes he was right to vote against the Iraq war and on the healthcare issue but given his unprecedented defiance of the party whip how can he now object to others defying his party line especially as his line is contrary to the official Labour party line on many issues. It makes him a hypocrite at best and arguably dishonest.

Finally does anyone on this forum really think that Corbyn can deliver a Labour victory at the next general election. Personally I expect Labour to hold even fewer seats than they have now if he is still "leading" the party.

There is no chance of a labour victory, he's alienated: any one to the right of extreme left in his own party, any floaters who voted for Brexit, and as you rightly pointed out has shown a level of hypocrisy and arrogance that even people who share what they believe to be his views will doubt his integrity.
They could even end up third behind UKIP or the SDP

Where do the SDP fit in to all this?

As far as I can remember, they went tits up in 1988.

Although they did re-form a few years back and embarked upon a tour wherein they played their greatest hits but I doubt they remain a serious political force in the UK:

xmiles wrote:

Finally does anyone on this forum really think that Corbyn can deliver a Labour victory at the next general election. Personally I expect Labour to hold even fewer seats than they have now if he is still "leading" the party.

No.

But I don't think that's what they're aiming at, if I'm honest.

The next GE is scheduled for 2020 unless Theresa May goes mental and calls a snap one (which I don't see happening).

We've pulled the plug on Europe in 2016 and it's looking like it's going to have to happen. (Although that's still open to discussion.)

But nobody (including TM) appears to be in a rush to invoke Article 50 anytime soon and most commentators are of the opinion that it'll be at least 18 months from now before the legal wranglings are complete and the government will be anything like in a position to be able to petition for our formal Decree Nisi.

I say Decree Nisi because that's what it would be - An intention to dissolve our relationship with Europe.

The Absolute could take a lot longer to secure.

So would you really want to be taking over at Westminster with all that going on?

It looks like a lose/lose situation to me and there's no fucking way I'd want to be the one left carrying the can if we came out of the divorce with what appeared to be the political equivalent of a broken toaster that my mum bought, some holiday photos and supervised access to the kids once a month.

Corbyn's obviously no PM but I don't think too many people in the PLP are worrying about that for now.

They're sitting back in their high backed leather chairs, stroking their white cats and smiling to themselves, safe in the knowledge that their plan's coming together.

Bread2.0 wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Finally does anyone on this forum really think that Corbyn can deliver a Labour victory at the next general election. Personally I expect Labour to hold even fewer seats than they have now if he is still "leading" the party.

No.

But I don't think that's what they're aiming at, if I'm honest.

The next GE is scheduled for 2020 unless Theresa May goes mental and calls a snap one (which I don't see happening).

We've pulled the plug on Europe in 2016 and it's looking like it's going to have to happen. (Although that's still open to discussion.)

But nobody (including TM) appears to be in a rush to invoke Article 50 anytime soon and most commentators are of the opinion that it'll be at least 18 months from now before the legal wranglings are complete and the government will be anything like in a position to be able to petition for our formal Decree Nisi.

I say Decree Nisi because that's what it would be - An intention to dissolve our relationship with Europe.

The Absolute could take a lot longer to secure.

So would you really want to be taking over at Westminster with all that going on?

It looks like a lose/lose situation to me and there's no fucking way I'd want to be the one left carrying the can if we came out of the divorce with what appeared to be the political equivalent of a broken toaster that my mum bought, some holiday photos and supervised access to the kids once a month.

Corbyn's obviously no PM but I don't think too many people in the PLP are worrying about that for now.

They're sitting back in their high backed leather chairs, stroking their white cats and smiling to themselves, safe in the knowledge that their plan's coming together.

Interesting theory but I wonder how many Corbynistas are that subtle. Even if true I can't envisage any scenario in which Corbyn could win a general election at any time.