General Election - 8th June.

Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.

Bread2.0 wrote:I know I keep banging on about this but it really pisses me off, so I'm having another go.

Social media is a fucking curse when it comes to forming public opinion regarding politics.

You could post a dry list of all the good stuff Labour are proposing but all it takes is one (allegedly) hilarious gif about Corbyn being a scruffy tramp who hasn't got a clue what he's doing to be circulated and go viral via Faceytime or Twatter and suddenly, everybody's an expert on why Labour are un-electable and that's that - Whallop! 5 more years of the fucking horrible Tories.

What's that saying again? "A lie can be half way around the world before the truth's finished lacing up its boots."

Dead fucking right.

There are still plenty of people in America posting stuff about Obama being a Nigerian Muslim who was spirited into the White House (along with his transsexual wife) by ISIS to take their guns away.

It's all bollocks and we're doing ourselves no favours as a species by falling for it.

Translation: Bread is always right and everyone else is thick as fuck.

Michael Foot got the same treatment. His crime? Wearing a so called 'donkey jacket' at the Cenotaph.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.

There is such a party, say hello to the Lib Dems 

wanderlust wrote:

Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward, it just won't make any difference as lifelong working class Labour voters have moved away from Labour as they are seen as too left wing now and too lenient of immigration during the Blair/Brown years.

I do think that when he loses the election he should stand down, he is not helping himself or the party when he says he will stay on.

What do you reckon about Lavery then? Or Keir Starmer? Both have more charisma in their little fingers than Jezza.

Not aware of Lavery to be honest Lusty but i have seen Starmer and he doesn't convince me either. He seems a bit preachy over Brexit from what i've seen of him and that will wind up a lot of people.
I genuinely can't think who i would want to take over which is a sad indictment of the current Labour Party

y2johnny wrote:

How much credibility does anyone have if they believe in spending billions on Trident but promise to never use it?

xmiles wrote:

y2johnny wrote:

How much credibility does anyone have if they believe in spending billions on Trident but promise to never use it?

How much credibility do the Tories have when May makes energy price capping a central election pledge when only two years ago, Miliband proposed exactly the same policy and was told by David Cameron that it showed "he wanted to live in a Marxist universe"?

Double standards - and policy plagiarism - or what?

I'm sorry to say it's by and large pointless to think Labour have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning the Election. In fact I think we'll lose even more seats, mostly to the Lib Dems who have nowhere to go but up and the Tories will finish with a majority of at least fifty.

Sadly the people of all too many western democracies have lurched dramatically to the right in the last decade or so. One only needs to look at the Brexit campaign and Donald Trump's election to know this. The hot button issue amongst way too many voters is immigration and blaming it for all the ills of the world. Throw in the fear of so-called Islamic State where every moslem is now being viewed as a terrorist sympathiser or a terrorist in fact and it's easy to see why the far right is gaining ground rapidly and gaining control over more and more supposedly moderate conservative parties. Then factor in Rupert Murdoch's massive media campaign that sells fear and ignorance.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:I'm sorry to say it's by and large pointless to think Labour have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning the Election. In fact I think we'll lose even more seats, mostly to the Lib Dems who have nowhere to go but up and the Tories will finish with a majority of at least fifty.

Sadly the people of all too many western democracies have lurched dramatically to the right in the last decade or so. One only needs to look at the Brexit campaign and Donald Trump's election to know this. The hot button issue amongst way too many voters is immigration and blaming it for all the ills of the world. Throw in the fear of so-called Islamic State where every moslem is now being viewed as a terrorist sympathiser or a terrorist in fact and it's easy to see why the far right is gaining ground rapidly and gaining control over more and more supposedly moderate conservative parties. Then factor in Rupert Murdoch's massive media campaign that sells fear and ignorance.

I don't think anyone imagines Labour will win but given that May has stated she is holding the election in order to gain a bigger majority there is still a scenario whereby the Tories could have their confidence tested.
Whilst existing Tory seats are likely to remain Tory, if the Lib Dems, Labour and the Greens pick up a few seats from UKIP and the SNP it may still turn out that the Tories get no or very little increase in majority as they expect.
How will May look then, asking for a mandate to push through a hard Brexit and not getting it?
You are right about the general swing to the right, but that was last year and already there are signs that the joke is starting to wear a bit thin and if the opposition parties can get people focussed on the Tories actual record rather than the veiled threats and undeliverable promises on which they have based their recent success they might get a shock earlier than they think. Although nobody really expects them to get thrown out until the enormity of Brexit kicks in in say a couple of years' time. 
The timing of this election is to ensure that the people won't be able to vote on their performance until it's too late.

wanderlust wrote:

luckyPeterpiper wrote:I'm sorry to say it's by and large pointless to think Labour have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning the Election. In fact I think we'll lose even more seats, mostly to the Lib Dems who have nowhere to go but up and the Tories will finish with a majority of at least fifty.

Sadly the people of all too many western democracies have lurched dramatically to the right in the last decade or so. One only needs to look at the Brexit campaign and Donald Trump's election to know this. The hot button issue amongst way too many voters is immigration and blaming it for all the ills of the world. Throw in the fear of so-called Islamic State where every moslem is now being viewed as a terrorist sympathiser or a terrorist in fact and it's easy to see why the far right is gaining ground rapidly and gaining control over more and more supposedly moderate conservative parties. Then factor in Rupert Murdoch's massive media campaign that sells fear and ignorance.

I don't think anyone imagines Labour will win but given that May has stated she is holding the election in order to gain a bigger majority there is still a scenario whereby the Tories could have their confidence tested.
Whilst existing Tory seats are likely to remain Tory, if the Lib Dems, Labour and the Greens pick up a few seats from UKIP and the SNP it may still turn out that the Tories get no or very little increase in majority as they expect.
How will May look then, asking for a mandate to push through a hard Brexit and not getting it?
You are right about the general swing to the right, but that was last year and already there are signs that the joke is starting to wear a bit thin and if the opposition parties can get people focussed on the Tories actual record rather than the veiled threats and undeliverable promises on which they have based their recent success they might get a shock earlier than they think. Although nobody really expects them to get thrown out until the enormity of Brexit kicks in in say a couple of years' time. 
The timing of this election is to ensure that the people won't be able to vote on their performance until it's too late.

UKIP don't have any seats to lose!



Also there are approximately 70 Labour seats who have a majority smaller than the UKIP vote at the last election.


I suggest you don't let your prejudice blind you to the facts.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.

welcome to the LibDems Nat...that's our headline policy

Chairmanda wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.

welcome to the LibDems Nat...that's our headline policy

Amanda I hate to say this but the Lib Dem's credibility is gone with the vast majority of ordinary voters after Clegg jumped in bed with Cameron. They've got no chance of even catching Labour let alone the Tories and no one will ever trust them as a party of government again, not even as part of a coalition. I don't wish them ill, in fact I agree with many of their espoused policies but the way Clegg and his cohorts abandoned those principles, not least tuition fees for a frankly useless seat at the cabinet table killed them in the eyes of many centrists and moderates.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:Amanda I hate to say this but the Lib Dem's credibility is gone with the vast majority of ordinary voters after Clegg jumped in bed with Cameron. They've got no chance of even catching Labour let alone the Tories and no one will ever trust them as a party of government again, not even as part of a coalition. I don't wish them ill, in fact I agree with many of their espoused policies but the way Clegg and his cohorts abandoned those principles, not least tuition fees for a frankly useless seat at the cabinet table killed them in the eyes of many centrists and moderates.

I would think the Lib Dems will revert back to being the party for the protest vote as it now seems likely UKIP will fade and die away quite quickly because they achieved Brexit - they don't have any other reason for being.

I do wonder though if some new party springs up after the elections - Macron only created his party a couple of years ago and he's now the President of France.

Maybe one exactly opposite to UKIP with the single aim to get us back IN the EU.

If so there's two off here who would no doubt jump on board with them!

Sluffy wrote:If so there's two off here who would no doubt jump on board with them!

The Armchair Party.

I've got an MA in Politics and the other fella was a regular at the CBI during a distinguished business career, so I think we're not completely clueless about this shit.

We don't sell mobile phones in a high street shop or organise the local council's bin collection schedule for a living.

I wish Brexit had failed but would never join any single issue party regardless of what they might want. In truth I'd like to see a Labour Government, one that's made up of the moderates rather than the far left but while I think Corbyn is far more moderate than some papers and forums would have us believe I do think he and some of his advisors are stuck in the past as are the Tories in many ways.

This country is changing, it always has and always will be that way and parties who hark back to the 'good old days' are selling an illusion of a time that never happened in a country that never existed outside Ealing Studios.

Britain is now a multi-cultural, multi-creed country and that diversity should be seen as a great strength, it's going to keep on in that direction anyway so we can either embrace and make the most of the opportunities it provides or we can keep doing a 'Farage' and pretending we can go backwards.

Bread2.0 wrote:I've got an MA in Politics and the other fella was a regular at the CBI during a distinguished business career, so I think we're not completely clueless about this shit.

We don't sell mobile phones in a high street shop or organise the local council's bin collection schedule for a living.

So you do think you're better than everyone else?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Bread2.0 wrote:I've got an MA in Politics and the other fella was a regular at the CBI during a distinguished business career, so I think we're not completely clueless about this shit.

We don't sell mobile phones in a high street shop or organise the local council's bin collection schedule for a living.

So you do think you're better than everyone else?

Has he not said " no - just you" yet?

As regards the Lib Dems, they were shafted by the Tories last time out so perhaps there is mileage in a Lib/Lab pact once again? In itself, that wouldn't be enough to overturn the overall majority but if you throw in the Tory "hard Brexit" dissenters and the SNP it might be enough to put the handbrake on May before she completely f**** up our trade deals. We'll see how it pans out after the election.

Chairmanda wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Norpig wrote:As a lifelong Labour supporter i agree with most of what he is putting forward

If there was a party that would sort out the NHS, even if it meant more taxes, I would vote for it. The NHS is something that we all have an interest in because we never know when we might need it.

But successive governments have failed to improve things, and in the unlikely situation that Labour got in again it would be more of the same.

Someone needs to be brave and stop the NHS being free for conditions brought on by stupidity. If you insist on going rock climbing then you should fooking well pay for your treatment. But it will never happen because politicians care more about perceived image than actually doing what is best for the country.

welcome to the LibDems Nat...that's our headline policy

I have a question Manda.
If the Libddems Trident policy is to maintain a nuclear capability but reducing CASD and having 3 subs instead of four, how much money would that save?
Given that the cost of Trident renewal as proposed by the Tories runs into tens of billions (plus running the Successor class and decommissioning of the Vanguards) couldn't that money be used to fund the NHS? And would enough be saved?