CAPITULATION: EU ELECTIONS ARE ON.

karlypants wrote:

rammywhite wrote:Labour inexorably moving onto a second referendum. That's Labour, the Lib Dems, the Greens ,SNP, Plaid ,Sinn Fein the DUP, the UUP, Change and all the rest heading in that direction. The only ones going in the opposite direction are now the impotent, dysfunctional and utterly bereft Tories.
We're going to have a second referendum and undo the madness of leaving . Hooray!!!
Leavers, get over it -we're staying in the EU

Deary, deary me.

KP
Please explain deary ,deary me in the context of the EU vote a couple of days ago!

xmiles wrote:Because people would know what they were voting for.

I think Leave would win again, by a bigger margin.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:Because people would know what they were voting for.

I think Leave would win again, by a bigger margin.

Vey much doubt it! But what do you and I know when we have brains like Hunt ,Gove, Thornberry.Farage and Kuennsberg telling us what we need to know

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:Because people would know what they were voting for.

I think Leave would win again, by a bigger margin.

So you should be in favour of a second referendum then.

xmiles wrote:So you should be in favour of a second referendum then.

Why? We had vote and Leave won.

Are we now a nation that says best of 3?

Be honest, if Remain had narrowly won and there was talk of another referendum you'd be up in arms.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:So you should be in favour of a second referendum then.

Why? We had vote and Leave won.

Are we now a nation that says best of 3?

Be honest, if Remain had narrowly won and there was talk of another referendum you'd be up in arms.

And now we know a damn sight more than we did then. Its not like choosing whether you want your eggs fried or scrambled. Its a major decision affecting this country for  decades to come and also future generations. So its not the best out of 3 - its a confirmatory vote. Lets see if the citizenship, now with a much clearer idea if what is involved still wants to go ahead to leave. Its called democracy- finding out the will of the people.
If Remain had won and there was talk about another referendum I wouldn't be up in arms, I'd accept it.
The reason leavers are so petrified of going back to the people is because they have a real and justified fear that the leave decision will be overturned.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:So you should be in favour of a second referendum then.

Why? We had vote and Leave won.

Are we now a nation that says best of 3?

Be honest, if Remain had narrowly won and there was talk of another referendum you'd be up in arms.

In the first referendum we voted by a big margin to remain in the EU (67.2% in favour with a turnout of 64.0%) yet you have no problem with a second referendum reversing this decision. So what is the problem now? Your hero Farage certainly believed that a 52/48 decision was "unfinished business by a long way".

xmiles wrote:In the first referendum we voted by a big margin to remain in the EU (67.2% in favour with a turnout of 64.0%) yet you have no problem with a second referendum reversing this decision.

Oh dear, did you really just claim something people voted for 40-odd years ago should be set in stone?

That is your most desperate argument yet.

Why don't you just answer my original question.

rammywhite wrote:So its not the best out of 3 - its a confirmatory vote.

When, in the history of British politics, have we ever had a "confirmatory" vote?

Hmmmm

rammywhite wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:Why would a second poll be any different?

Because many Leavers have changed their mind to remain.

Many Remainers respect the result of the referendum.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:In the first referendum we voted by a big margin to remain in the EU (67.2% in favour with a turnout of 64.0%) yet you have no problem with a second referendum reversing this decision.

Oh dear, did you really just claim something people voted for 40-odd years ago should be set in stone?

That is your most desperate argument yet.

Why don't you just answer my original question.

What is the difference between calling for another referendum now and calling for one in 2016?

Apparently the 2016 one is set in stone according to you despite Farage's view on a 52/48 result.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Hmmmm

So you think all conservative voters are brexit fans and no labour voters want to remain in the EU?

xmiles wrote:What is the difference between calling for another referendum now and calling for one in 2016?

Apparently the 2016 one is set in stone according to you despite Farage's view on a 52/48 result.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing for any more.

The simple fact is, in UK history we've never had a public vote to ratify a vote already taken.

Most people who believe in democracy would agree it's daft to even consider it.

If we have a second referendum, every time we have a close election in future years the losing side will be banging on for years about having a second vote.

It's utter nonsense. You lost, accept it and move on. Life's too short to be worrying about shit like this.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

xmiles wrote:What is the difference between calling for another referendum now and calling for one in 2016?

Apparently the 2016 one is set in stone according to you despite Farage's view on a 52/48 result.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing for any more.

The simple fact is, in UK history we've never had a public vote to ratify a vote already taken.

Most people who believe in democracy would agree it's daft to even consider it.

If we have a second referendum, every time we have a close election in future years the losing side will be banging on for years about having a second vote.

It's utter nonsense. You lost, accept it and move on. Life's too short to be worrying about shit like this.

As usual you don't deal with the point. For you the 2016 referendum result is set in stone although the first referendum on the EU is not for some reason.

I do believe in democracy which is why I think the refusal of a "second" referendum when we actually know what the terms of leaving the EU are (no magical £350m for the NHS, no lies about Turkey joining the EU, etc) is a denial of democracy. Since when has giving people a vote been anti-democratic?

xmiles wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Hmmmm

So you think all conservative voters are brexit fans and no labour voters want to remain in the EU?

Labour aren't on that list. 

But assuming everyone thinks the same because they have voted a certain way is very stupid.

Priorities are all wrong here: UK political parties are more concerned with saving themselves than saving the planet or even the country and its citizens.

 The media stir up a frenzy about our insular leadership battles rather than looking at the bigger picture and at election results across the rest of Europe to report strongly enough how the environment has become the major concern for most of the population now....and how our two main parties ignore the stark reality for our future existence.

It should not take a 93year-old man and myriad youngsters across the globe to have to try to convince our ostriches to lift their heads out of the sand. Are Attenborough's devastating conclusions and schoolchildren's passionate pleadings to fall on deaf ears?
 Tragic reactions ultimately from most of our politicians and newspapers.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Hmmmm

So you think all conservative voters are brexit fans and no labour voters want to remain in the EU?

Labour aren't on that list. 

But assuming everyone thinks the same because they have voted a certain way is very stupid.

But by putting all the tory votes in the leave column you are doing just that.

xmiles wrote:As usual you don't deal with the point. For you the 2016 referendum result is set in stone although the first referendum on the EU is not for some reason.

The first referendum was taken in the 1970s, half the current population weren't even born at the time.

I'm sure you'll agree the world has changed dramatically since then.