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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Wandering Minds » How is the Tory government doing?

How is the Tory government doing?

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Cajunboy
gloswhite
xmiles
wanderlust
Natasha Whittam
okocha
Norpig
boltonbonce
Sluffy
sunlight
wessy
Ten Bobsworth
Angry Dad
Hipster_Nebula
18 posters

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61How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Jan 20 2020, 10:56

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

okocha wrote:XM and Wander, very well expressed....but don't forget The Express, Telegraph and Piers in your list....
Frankly I don't give a monkey's about the media other than in the sense that they are damaging our country peddling damaging untruths in order to make money, get kudos from their owners and consolidate brand loyalty from the converted who lap it up without questioning motives because they want to believe it.
My concerns are purely based on the economics of the whole shenanigans in the knowledge that it is the economics that will start to impact people's lives sooner or later.
It's already impacted on Chris Odey's life after he pocketed £220 million the day after the referendum. Perhaps Murdoch sent him round to meet Boris simply to congratulate him? Smile

62How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Jan 20 2020, 13:02

Guest


Guest

I was telling you to give it a rest on the wanting to see our country fail bile.

Fair enough on the rest of your post, but I’ll judge him by his record. And his and this governments record on policy so far is very poor (in my opinion). See my post on the first page for specifics.

63How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Jan 20 2020, 20:51

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

T.R.O.Y wrote:I was telling you to give it a rest on the wanting to see our country fail bile.

Fair enough on the rest of your post, but I’ll judge him by his record. And his and this governments record on policy so far is very poor (in my opinion). See my post on the first page for specifics.
Bit harsh TROY, that's the first time I've actually put it in those terms.

64How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Mon Jan 20 2020, 21:39

Guest


Guest

It’s quite a common response to negative Brexit press in my experience - so apologies if that came across harsh on you personally.

65How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 21 2020, 01:37

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Well the question is a about a year or two premature - we haven't even left the EU yet and won't for at least another year and that will be the main factor in deciding what/how they've done.
Although blaming remainers for "not wanting it to work" does come across as an early excuse for faiilure in the making but time will tell.

66How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 21 2020, 17:13

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

T.R.O.Y wrote:It’s quite a common response to negative Brexit press in my experience - so apologies if that came across harsh on you personally.
Cheers TROY, I am duly mollified  Very Happy

67How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 21 2020, 17:15

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

wanderlust wrote:
Although blaming remainers for "not wanting it to work" does come across as an early excuse for faiilure in the making but time will tell.
I don't see this Wander. Without the backing of half the country from the outset, its going to be tougher than it needs to be.

68How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 21 2020, 17:53

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

gloswhite wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Although blaming remainers for "not wanting it to work" does come across as an early excuse for faiilure in the making but time will tell.
I don't see this Wander. Without the backing of half the country from the outset, its going to be tougher than it needs to be.

Exactly how is it going to be tougher glos? Just because remainers think it will be a disaster doesn't make it a disaster any more than leavers thinking it will be wonderful won't make it wonderful. This isn't Tinkerbell glos. No matter how hard you remainers believe in it, it won't make it happen. Smile

69How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Tue Jan 21 2020, 22:35

Guest


Guest

A Brexit MEP, not a Tory, but still a complete idiot

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 EOv_P-KWkAEduE-?format=jpg&name=medium

70How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 22 2020, 01:44

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

T.R.O.Y wrote:A Brexit MEP, not a Tory, but still a complete idiot

How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 EOv_P-KWkAEduE-?format=jpg&name=medium
Amazing that someone who was told that leaving the EU would be losing control rather taking it back   ( :facepalm: ) before the referendum has suddenly realised the truth of the matter 3 years down the line. Idiot.

Meanwhile, Borat is defeated 4 times in 24 hours as he tries to shuffle his half-cocked ideas through the Lords.

Plus his proposed social media tax has been parked.
And as for his pitch for votes claiming he will "revitalise the North" it seems his own MPs are scuppering the deal. Not a good day for the puppet.

71How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 22 2020, 12:48

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

Copy of a previous post on Next Labour Leader thread that should have been on here instead.

Very funny and astute!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/20/useful-fall-guy-a-preview-of-boris-johnsons-minister-ratings

72How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 22 2020, 20:53

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Although blaming remainers for "not wanting it to work" does come across as an early excuse for faiilure in the making but time will tell.
I don't see this Wander. Without the backing of half the country from the outset, its going to be tougher than it needs to be.

Exactly how is it going to be tougher glos? Just because remainers think it will be a disaster doesn't make it a disaster any more than leavers thinking it will be wonderful won't make it wonderful. This isn't Tinkerbell glos.  Smile
Quite simple really. How can a government negotiate with confidence when there are a large number of its population who will continue to do anything to hamper talks, mainly (because they lost the original argument).
How does Tinkerbell come into this? 
Nothing worse than a grown man calling on a flighty fairy to back him up. Very Happy

73How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 22 2020, 20:54

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

Oh, and it will happen, because its already begun  Laughing

74How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Wed Jan 22 2020, 23:01

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Although blaming remainers for "not wanting it to work" does come across as an early excuse for faiilure in the making but time will tell.
I don't see this Wander. Without the backing of half the country from the outset, its going to be tougher than it needs to be.

Exactly how is it going to be tougher glos? Just because remainers think it will be a disaster doesn't make it a disaster any more than leavers thinking it will be wonderful won't make it wonderful. This isn't Tinkerbell glos.  Smile
Quite simple really. How can a government negotiate with confidence when there are a large number of its population who will continue to do anything to hamper talks, mainly (because they lost the original argument).
How does Tinkerbell come into this? 
Nothing worse than a grown man calling on a flighty fairy to back him up. Very Happy

How exactly are people "hamper[ing] talks"?

You seem to think that merely believing in something, no matter how preposterous, makes it real. Hence the Tinkerbell reference - which I suspect you were able to work out for yourself glos. Smile

75How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jan 23 2020, 02:04

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Although blaming remainers for "not wanting it to work" does come across as an early excuse for faiilure in the making but time will tell.
I don't see this Wander. Without the backing of half the country from the outset, its going to be tougher than it needs to be.

Exactly how is it going to be tougher glos? Just because remainers think it will be a disaster doesn't make it a disaster any more than leavers thinking it will be wonderful won't make it wonderful. This isn't Tinkerbell glos.  Smile
Quite simple really. How can a government negotiate with confidence when there are a large number of its population who will continue to do anything to hamper talks, mainly (because they lost the original argument).
With a remit granted by less than a third of the population any negotiation was never going to have the backing of the country, but we all knew that and as pointed out it above it will have no impact whatsoever on the hardnosed negotiators.
Negotiate with confidence?
Has anyone actually said they have any confidence in the negotiations? Europhiles have always said that taking us out of a situation where we already have strong and proven highly beneficial agreements in place is a incredibly stupid risk.
And I don't even recall the Tories/Leavers ever saying there was any guaranteed outcome so that's hardly a recipe for "confidence" anyway.

If anything is going to undermine the confidence of the negotiators it's the ridiculous position we have put ourselves in i.e. with massively reduced influence and buying power, the stench of desperation that comes from having thrown away a strong hand and the America-first attitude of the very people the remainers have bet the house on.

If anyone had actually bothered to listen to the people we are allegedly going to be negotiating with they would know that they think Britain is in cloud cuckoo land and that we have ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE of getting any sort of deals that are remotely as good as the ones we are pissing away.

THAT will undermine any confidence the British negotiators may have, not what the people think.

As an aside, it seems highly pertinent that today Trump alluded to renegotiating the deal between the US and the EU which he thinks is unfair on the US - as clear an indicator of what we can expect e.g. this - and a measure of what a great deal we had before Britain went mad.

Ironically, any new agreement between the US and the EU is likely to be far better than any deal between the US and the UK as we have so much less to negotiate with than our partners in the EU. Why the hell do you think we voted overwhelmingly to join the EU in the first place if not for massively increased negotiating power in a global economy? Even Thatcher recognised it was our only chance of competing with the super-economies of China and the USA.

As for "losing the original argument" - Britain lost and the corporate foreigners who manipulated the outcome will be the only winners. Plus the British puppets and traitors who facilitated it for personal gain. That includes you Borat.

76How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jan 23 2020, 12:37

gloswhite

gloswhite
Guðni Bergsson
Guðni Bergsson

wanderlust wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Although blaming remainers for "not wanting it to work" does come across as an early excuse for faiilure in the making but time will tell.
I don't see this Wander. Without the backing of half the country from the outset, its going to be tougher than it needs to be.

Exactly how is it going to be tougher glos? Just because remainers think it will be a disaster doesn't make it a disaster any more than leavers thinking it will be wonderful won't make it wonderful. This isn't Tinkerbell glos.  Smile
Quite simple really. How can a government negotiate with confidence when there are a large number of its population who will continue to do anything to hamper talks, mainly (because they lost the original argument).
With a remit granted by less than a third of the population any negotiation was never going to have the backing of the country, but we all knew that and as pointed out it above it will have no impact whatsoever on the hardnosed negotiators.
Negotiate with confidence?
Has anyone actually said they have any confidence in the negotiations? Europhiles have always said that taking us out of a situation where we already have strong and proven highly beneficial agreements in place is a incredibly stupid risk.
And I don't even recall the Tories/Leavers ever saying there was any guaranteed outcome so that's hardly a recipe for "confidence" anyway.

If anything is going to undermine the confidence of the negotiators it's the ridiculous position we have put ourselves in i.e. with massively reduced influence and buying power, the stench of desperation that comes from having thrown away a strong hand and the America-first attitude of the very people the remainers have bet the house on.

If anyone had actually bothered to listen to the people we are allegedly going to be negotiating with they would know that they think Britain is in cloud cuckoo land and that we have ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE of getting any sort of deals that are remotely as good as the ones we are pissing away.

THAT will undermine any confidence the British negotiators may have, not what the people think.

As an aside, it seems highly pertinent that today Trump alluded to renegotiating the deal between the US and the EU which he thinks is unfair on the US - as clear an indicator of what we can expect e.g. this - and a measure of what a great deal we had before Britain went mad.

Ironically, any new agreement between the US and the EU is likely to be far better than any deal between the US and the UK as we have so much less to negotiate with than our partners in the EU. Why the hell do you think we voted overwhelmingly to join the EU in the first place if not for massively increased negotiating power in a global economy? Even Thatcher recognised it was our only chance of competing with the super-economies of China and the USA.

As for "losing the original argument" - Britain lost and the corporate foreigners who manipulated the outcome will be the only winners. Plus the British puppets and traitors who facilitated it for personal gain. That includes you Borat.
With a remit granted by less than a third of the population 
As soon as I saw this I thought, 'Here we go again', and I was right. Only, this time its a full-on rant, with nothing new and very much the same, stale, comments. Also, a ridiculous reference to 'Borat' all the time. Have you not noticed yet Wander, that nobody cares that you have a silly name for Boris ?
I don't see the point in going over the same stuff over and over. We know each others views and none of us are going to change, so I'll continue to read , but I no longer see the point in joining your Boris-bashing fests.

77How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jan 23 2020, 14:42

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Although blaming remainers for "not wanting it to work" does come across as an early excuse for faiilure in the making but time will tell.
I don't see this Wander. Without the backing of half the country from the outset, its going to be tougher than it needs to be.

Exactly how is it going to be tougher glos? Just because remainers think it will be a disaster doesn't make it a disaster any more than leavers thinking it will be wonderful won't make it wonderful. This isn't Tinkerbell glos.  Smile
Quite simple really. How can a government negotiate with confidence when there are a large number of its population who will continue to do anything to hamper talks, mainly (because they lost the original argument).
How does Tinkerbell come into this? 
Nothing worse than a grown man calling on a flighty fairy to back him up. Very Happy

How exactly are people "hamper[ing] talks"?  

You seem to think that merely believing in something, no matter how preposterous, makes it real. Hence the Tinkerbell reference - which I suspect you were able to work out for yourself glos. Smile

glos I see that you are not going to reply to WL but I hope you will reply to me. Mine is a genuine enquiry. I really want to know how you think people are able to hamper talks when they have no direct involvement in the talks.

78How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Thu Jan 23 2020, 16:29

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

gloswhite wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
xmiles wrote:
gloswhite wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
Although blaming remainers for "not wanting it to work" does come across as an early excuse for faiilure in the making but time will tell.
I don't see this Wander. Without the backing of half the country from the outset, its going to be tougher than it needs to be.

Exactly how is it going to be tougher glos? Just because remainers think it will be a disaster doesn't make it a disaster any more than leavers thinking it will be wonderful won't make it wonderful. This isn't Tinkerbell glos.  Smile
Quite simple really. How can a government negotiate with confidence when there are a large number of its population who will continue to do anything to hamper talks, mainly (because they lost the original argument).
With a remit granted by less than a third of the population any negotiation was never going to have the backing of the country, but we all knew that and as pointed out it above it will have no impact whatsoever on the hardnosed negotiators.
Negotiate with confidence?
Has anyone actually said they have any confidence in the negotiations? Europhiles have always said that taking us out of a situation where we already have strong and proven highly beneficial agreements in place is a incredibly stupid risk.
And I don't even recall the Tories/Leavers ever saying there was any guaranteed outcome so that's hardly a recipe for "confidence" anyway.

If anything is going to undermine the confidence of the negotiators it's the ridiculous position we have put ourselves in i.e. with massively reduced influence and buying power, the stench of desperation that comes from having thrown away a strong hand and the America-first attitude of the very people the remainers have bet the house on.

If anyone had actually bothered to listen to the people we are allegedly going to be negotiating with they would know that they think Britain is in cloud cuckoo land and that we have ABSOLUTELY ZERO CHANCE of getting any sort of deals that are remotely as good as the ones we are pissing away.

THAT will undermine any confidence the British negotiators may have, not what the people think.

As an aside, it seems highly pertinent that today Trump alluded to renegotiating the deal between the US and the EU which he thinks is unfair on the US - as clear an indicator of what we can expect e.g. this - and a measure of what a great deal we had before Britain went mad.

Ironically, any new agreement between the US and the EU is likely to be far better than any deal between the US and the UK as we have so much less to negotiate with than our partners in the EU. Why the hell do you think we voted overwhelmingly to join the EU in the first place if not for massively increased negotiating power in a global economy? Even Thatcher recognised it was our only chance of competing with the super-economies of China and the USA.

As for "losing the original argument" - Britain lost and the corporate foreigners who manipulated the outcome will be the only winners. Plus the British puppets and traitors who facilitated it for personal gain. That includes you Borat.
With a remit granted by less than a third of the population 
As soon as I saw this I thought, 'Here we go again', and I was right. Only, this time its a full-on rant, with nothing new and very much the same, stale, comments. Also, a ridiculous reference to 'Borat' all the time. Have you not noticed yet Wander, that nobody cares that you have a silly name for Boris ?
I don't see the point in going over the same stuff over and over. We know each others views and none of us are going to change, so I'll continue to read , but I no longer see the point in joining your Boris-bashing fests.
I thought I made some very pertinent points about our negotiating position - if you can call it that - and the key factors that will determine the level of "confidence" the negotiators are likely to have.

79How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Fri Jan 24 2020, 01:30

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Another U turn in Tory pre-election promises as Javid "clarifies" his statement on alignment with EU rules.

In the space of 6 days he's gone from "Britain will be free from EU rules in the future" to "Britain will only diverge from EU rules where it is in the interest of British business" - after being told by British businesses that EU rules are needed in order to secure supply chains.
(It will be interesting to see where the Tory Government thinks it knows more about the "interests of British businesses" than British businesses know themselves)
That surely can't go down well with the Brexiteers who banged on about "freeing us from EU regulations" as a result of Murdoch and Cummings media campaigns?

With the Tories now starting to be faced with the reality of what they were promising in order to retain power, it looks increasingly like we'll still be in the EU in all but name.

80How is the Tory government doing? - Page 4 Empty Re: How is the Tory government doing? Fri Jan 24 2020, 09:02

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

And it is now becoming even clearer how much the government bungled HS2 from the very start, at eye-watering expense to the tax-payer. Clear disarray over how to proceed from here. 

Also increasingly clear how foolish it has been for Johnson to rely on Trump's USA for deals or support. See Harry Dunn case and threats of tariffs on British motors.

We need to be taking Trump to task for his denial of climate change and his position on Israel and the Middle East but we won't whilst we still cling to the vain hope that we can do deals with the unprincipled lout who claims impeachment is a hoax and a witch-hunt.

We are now hoping that the EU will treat us kindly. Better get begging, Boris!

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