Coronavirus - the political argument

gloswhite wrote:Agree Nat, but whats concerning me is that the government is still reacting too slowly. Not sure if its because Boris isn't kicking their arses, but they've had enough of a taste of the problems this virus throws up to be able to give us more information, and hopefully optimism, than it currently is.
Why won't they even admit they are looking at an exit strategy? Maybe they aren't. Everything is too slow.

They've said all along that they can't confirm an exit strategy until the numbers drop or at least level out. Nothing has changed.

Also, as soon as the government even talks about an exit strategy the idiots of the UK will take that as problem over, and will be partying in each others houses before the day is out.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

gloswhite wrote:Agree Nat, but whats concerning me is that the government is still reacting too slowly. Not sure if its because Boris isn't kicking their arses, but they've had enough of a taste of the problems this virus throws up to be able to give us more information, and hopefully optimism, than it currently is.
Why won't they even admit they are looking at an exit strategy? Maybe they aren't. Everything is too slow.

They've said all along that they can't confirm an exit strategy until the numbers drop or at least level out. Nothing has changed.

Also, as soon as the government even talks about an exit strategy the idiots of the UK will take that as problem over, and will be partying in each others houses before the day is out.

Yep, I accept thats going to happen in some places, but its still frustrating that they are seemingly doing nothing other than wait for this to slow down. However, that could also force many to buck the lock down as well, as they have nothing to look forward to.

I’m not sure what else the government can do Glos apart from getting us to wait it out and hope the pharmaceutical companies come out with a vaccine/cure?

karlypants wrote:I’m not sure what else the government can do Glos apart from getting us to wait it out and hope the pharmaceutical companies come out with a vaccine/cure?

Perhaps get the necessary equipment to all the health workers that they label as heroes?  Actions, not words!! Same goes for testing. 

Turning away from the EU's offers to supply PPE is incomprehensible and disastrous. Which of us would work in a hospital or Care Home when faced with such danger?

Some were saying that we should save criticism for after the event, but it's crucial to hold the government to account right now to rectify failings and stop as many  further deaths as possible.

 It also didn't help that Labour took so long to appoint a new leader to work with the Tories and  to point out their failings, as necessary. It also hasn't helped that there has been no chance to raise concerns in the HoC.

Natasha Whittam wrote: It's so easy to have a pop from behind a keyboard.

Well, you should know......

okocha wrote:Perhaps get the necessary equipment to all the health workers that they label as heroes?   

You do realise the government isn't a manufacturing outfit don't you?

So please tell me, if you were the PM, how you'd go about starting a manufacturing factory and have it up and running in a few weeks.

Fact or fiction?

Good conspiracy if false, frightening if true!





Coronavirus: Is there any evidence for lab release theory?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52318539

Natasha:   Well, I certainly would not have been so proud that I would decline the EU's offer of PPE in the meantime. Talk about politics before genuine care for citizens!

By the way, do I have to remind you that on one of the recent previous times that I expressed an opinion on the government's universally accepted slowness to act, you replied with "Just fuck off!"  
So you can hardly expect me to have any respect for you now.

okocha wrote:Well, I certainly would not have been so proud that I would decline the EU's offer of PPE in the meantime. Talk about politics before genuine care for citizens!

By the way, do I have to remind you that on one of the recent previous times that I expressed an opinion on the government's universally accepted slowness to act, you repled with "Just fuck off!"  
So you can hardly expect me to have any respect for you now.

You completely avoided the question.

Tell us all how you would manufacture all this safety wear in a few weeks.

If you can't answer the question, then apologise.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

okocha wrote:Well, I certainly would not have been so proud that I would decline the EU's offer of PPE in the meantime. Talk about politics before genuine care for citizens!

By the way, do I have to remind you that on one of the recent previous times that I expressed an opinion on the government's universally accepted slowness to act, you repled with "Just fuck off!"  
So you can hardly expect me to have any respect for you now.

You completely avoided the question.

Tell us all how you would manufacture all this safety wear in a few weeks.

If you can't answer the question, then apologise.

I don't intend to bandy words for long with someone who's just given an answer  as illogical and twisted as one that Trump might make. I responded perfectly politely and reasonably to you about the issue of the country's shortage of the necessary equipment to save lives. Manufacturing our own safetywear became an issue once the govt had turned away from the EU's generous offer.
 I'm amazed that you choose to defend the government's lack of preparedness, foresight and action, given the clear evidence about what was on the horizon. 

Testing, too, is woefully inadequate. 

Don't you care about the plight of our health workers?

The apology needs to come from you for your recent crude response, but I don't expect that you will make one.

okocha wrote:
I don't intend to bandy words for long with someone who's just given an answer  as illogical and twisted as one that Trump might make. I responded perfectly politely and reasonably to you about the issue of the country's shortage of the necessary equipment to save lives. Manufacturing our own safetywear became an issue once the govt had turned away from the EU's generous offer.
 I'm amazed that you choose to defend the government's lack of preparedness, foresight and action, given the clear evidence about what was on the horizon. 

Testing, too, is woefully inadequate. 

Don't you care about the plight of our health workers?

The apology needs to come from you for your recent crude response, but I don't expect that you will make one.

I'm not defending anyone other than to say this is a unique situation that ANY government would have found difficult. I care about the plight of our health workers, but I don't believe the government is sitting on it's arse doing nothing about it.

But once again you ignore the question. As things stand today, please explain how you would manufacture all these safety items. You have an unlimited budget if that helps.

xmiles wrote:

gloswhite wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:

gloswhite wrote:I personally would like us all to wear masks. 

And where are the 60+million people in the UK going to source these masks? Considering you're only supposed to wear them once it would need billions and billions of the things - right now you'd do well to find one box in a supermarket.

I am 100% against masks because they give people a false sense of security, and there's not even any proof they do any good - in fact some seem to be claiming the opposite.

I'm thinking that any help is better than no help. Also, if we go down that road you can be assured that we will be flooded with information on where, how, and what to expect. If we know how to use them effectively, only the idiots who ignore official advice will suffer.
I can't help think that a lot of the talk against them is because we don't bloody have any ! The official view may well change once we have secured a manufacturer to provide enough.

I understand your concerns glos but I am with Nat on this. The evidence is far from clear cut. There are even potential downsides from making masks compulsory and the bottom line is where are they going to come from? We can't even supply key health and care workers with PPE now.

Amazon

xmiles wrote:

Norpig wrote:If the PM being at deaths door and being rescued by the NHS doesn't make them start to properly fund it then nothing will.
I'm hoping that and the current situation are a wake up call to the Government and they start to realise what an essential service it provides and stop the sneaking privitisation that is still going on.

Sadly that is not going to happen Norpig. The Tory party exists only to look after the rich and big business. Nothing will change that.

I guess that's why they won the election with an 80 seat majority.

karlypants wrote:One thing for sure is that Matt Hancock needs to be replaced.

He sure does need to go. 

I always  think he looks like a bad baby that has just filled it's nappy.

I wished I'd not said that now, I can't get that image out of my mind now.

gloswhite wrote:I sometimes wonder if we are putting too much emphasis on the scientists and their musings, and missing other non-scientific requirements. I personally would like us all to wear masks. 
Sooner or later we will all be out on the street, in some form or another. As one of the 'vulnerable' ones, I will probably be one of the last ones to be let loose and I'm going to be vary wary of other people, and i would definitely feel reassured with masks.

I must admit I keep thinking about should I be wearing a mask in some situations when I finally leave the house.
There seems quite a lot of debate about if they are of any benefit, probably not if they get wet from your breath or if you keep fiddling with them. Plus which one do you buy , does it have to be a N95 ?

Some European countries are making them compulsory as they relax their isolation rules.

I'm not sure what to do at the moment, but can't see me being alllowed out until mid -June, unless Blackpool Victoria  create an outside Cancer-Pod for further treatment.

Natasha Whittam wrote:I'm not defending anyone other than to say this is a unique situation that ANY government would have found difficult. I care about the plight of our health workers, but I don't believe the government is sitting on it's arse doing nothing about it.

But once again you ignore the question. As things stand today, please explain how you would manufacture all these safety items. You have an unlimited budget if that helps.

Build a time machine and join the EU's bulk buy scheme, looks a bit silly not doing that now.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Build a time machine and join the EU's bulk buy scheme, looks a bit silly not doing that now.

Exactly, there's no easy answer. You can't just go out and secure thousands of items at a days notice.

Everyone should feel free to point out mistakes when this is all over, but wasting time pointing the finger right now is helping no one.

Nope, not having that. Now's the time to be scrutinising, too late after the event.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Nope, not having that. Now's the time to be scrutinising, too late after the event.

What good does it do to say "you reacted too slowly"?

It’s not, it’s good to expose where there are shortcomings though so government policy is directed correctly - we’ve seen it in the last week with care homes.