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Bolton Nuts » BWFC » Bolton Wanderers Banter » If Jaaskelainen has been our best ever keeper who has been the second best?

If Jaaskelainen has been our best ever keeper who has been the second best?

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boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yep sounds right you now know how i look lol 

I am only 5'6" and weigh 10 stone 4lb thats the heaviest i have ever been, my racing weight was around 8 stone 6lb, i am naturally slim but i ran 60-80+ miles a week for around 25 years. feel better for a bit of weight now. but metabolism and genes are a major thing just so you hate me even  more never been on a diet. Laughing
I've got a Ron Hill cap I bought this year from his clothing shop. I'll put it on tomorrow and walk briskly to the paper shop.
It's as close as I'll get to serious running these days. I don't think Ron missed a days running up to 2017 or thereabouts.

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
He had a running streak of 52 years for most of that he ran twice a day and once on Sundays, remarkable, he once had an operation and limped around to keep it going lol, used to run around airports when travelling to races. as well as being the best marathon runner in the world he also started and ran Ron Hill sports designing all the kit. Ran barefoot in some top races including a winter cross country when he forgot his shoes.

One easter he won a 7 mile road race on Good Friday, Won the Rivington Pike Fell race on Easter saturday then on the Monday won the Barnsley marathon. = Alf Tupper

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:He had a running streak of 52 years for most of that he ran twice a day and once on Sundays, remarkable, he once had an operation and limped around to keep it going lol, used to run around airports when travelling to races. as well as being the best marathon runner in the world he also started and ran Ron Hill sports designing all the kit. Ran barefoot in some top races including a winter cross country when he forgot his shoes.

One easter he won a 7 mile road race on Good Friday, Won the Rivington Pike Fell race on Easter saturday then on the Monday won the Barnsley marathon. = Alf Tupper
What a man. Alf Tupper is right. And some footballers have to play twice a week. Very Happy

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Almost forgot about the Doidge ‘transfer’, what a shambles that was.
Doidge transfer a shambles? That's true enough. 

BWFC desparately needed 'investment' to survive. The best chance was to stay in the Championship. They'd stayed in it by the skin of the teeth the previous season and needed another striker but couldn't afford one. Couldn't even afford the wages so Anderson did a deal with Vanity Vince. FGR would pay Doidge's wages (or to be more exact Ecotricity bond holders paid the wages) and, if Anderson got the needed investment, FGR would get a million quid in January.
 
Happy days all round except new investment didn't materialise and ED died less than a fortnight after the deal was done. January comes round, money isn't there, Vince aided and abetted by the BN and the ST, kicks off whilst a gaggle of dopey BWFC fans wearing their NoKenDo shirts swan off to FGR for a free pint and a veggie burger. You couldn't make it up!



Last edited by Ten Bobsworth on Tue Aug 25 2020, 07:30; edited 1 time in total

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Interesting, I haven’t heard this theory before - do you have any facts to support it?

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Interesting, I haven’t heard this theory before - do you have any facts to support it?

:facepalm:

Has the last few months taught you nothing?

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
All our milk's gone off.

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yep sounds right you now know how i look lol 

I am only 5'6" and weigh 10 stone 4lb thats the heaviest i have ever been, my racing weight was around 8 stone 6lb, i am naturally slim but i ran 60-80+ miles a week for around 25 years. feel better for a bit of weight now. but metabolism and genes are a major thing just so you hate me even  more never been on a diet. Laughing
You jammy bastard! Smile
But TBF I admire you for the running - although personally, I don't do it by choice but I have to keep moving just to stop putting the pounds on. I like my food and drink - a lot. The young lads I play footie with are great about it and are clearly concerned about my wellbeing. 
Well they're always saying I should do more running anyway .... Smile

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Interesting, I haven’t heard this theory before - do you have any facts to support it?
Not so much a theory as a statement of all known facts in a logical and rational sequence. But if you think any of it’s wrong maybe you could explain which bit and why.

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
I've no idea if it's right or wrong, seems rational enough aside from FGR giving us their top scorer and paying wages with no payment agreed - so i was just wondering if the theory is supported by any facts.

wessy

wessy
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
You jammy bastard! Smile
But TBF I admire you for the running - although personally, I don't do it by choice but I have to keep moving just to stop putting the pounds on. I like my food and drink - a lot. The young lads I play footie with are great about it and are clearly concerned about my wellbeing. 
Well they're always saying I should do more running anyway .... Smile
Ha ha didn't feel Jammy mid January hearing the rain or hail hit the bedroom window before i ran to work (5miles) Started playing walking football now great fun

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I've no idea if it's right or wrong, seems rational enough aside from FGR giving us their top scorer and paying wages with no payment agreed - so i was just wondering if the theory is supported by any facts.
They weren't giving us their top scorer, they were  selling him for what they believed to be a good price. One goal in 17 games at Championship level suggests it was too much.

Only problem was that the buyers didn't have the money to buy him or pay his wages but plainly hoped they would/might have in a few months time.

FGR was losing money but not strapped for cash -that came from Ecotricity - so they could afford to wait. Worst case scenario for FGR was that they'd be a football creditor who get paid in full in any case.

As for Doidge and his agent, they knew full well that he was going to a club that had been unable to pay wages the month before he signed and ought to have known that BWFC could not survive without new money from somewhere.

Nowt complicated about it all really.

Whitesince63


Nicolas Anelka
Nicolas Anelka
Sluffy your question was “ If Jaskeleinen has been our best ever keeper, who has been our second?”

Both Jussi and Hoppy are have BEENS, so why are you trying to dismiss Hoppy as having BEEN our best after Jussi. Whether he would or wouldn’t be capable of playing in today’s game is irrelevant and given his height I agree with you, it’s probably certain that he wouldn’t get signed today but you can’t take away what he did in an era far more physical than today. As usual it’s all about opinions and in mine Jussi and Hoppy were head and shoulders above any others we’ve had since.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I highly doubt Doidge would have bought a house in the area if he or his agent had even the smallest inkling he wouldn't be signed permanently in January.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Sluffy your question was “ If Jaskeleinen has been our best ever keeper, who has been our second?”

Both Jussi and Hoppy are have BEENS, so why are you trying to dismiss Hoppy as having BEEN our best after Jussi. Whether he would or wouldn’t be capable of playing in today’s game is irrelevant and given his height I agree with you, it’s probably certain that he wouldn’t get signed today but you can’t take away what he did in an era far more physical than today. As usual it’s all about opinions and in mine Jussi and Hoppy were head and shoulders above any others we’ve had since.

I'm sorry I started all this in the first place!

Clearly most people simply can't grasp my original point so I'll try and explain it again.

My question was basically rank our keepers in order of being the best - yes?

When you rank people you do it in order, best first, next best second and so on - yes?

So my definition how can you put someone who wouldn't be able to get in to todays teams as first or second?

If he couldn't possibly get in the team now it clearly must mean that the current incumbents have got to be better than him - otherwise he would be in the team!

It's as simple as that.

You/others can't say someone wouldn't get in the team these days because of his lack of height but is a better keeper than the one in the team now because that's a direct contradiction of what you are saying!

He's either good enough to play now at 5ft 8 inches tall or he's NOT good enough to play now because he's ONLY 5ft 8 inches tall.

If it's the latter then by definition whoever is in the team now must be ranked higher than him simply because (if you allow the pun) the goalposts have been shifted and shorter keepers like Hopkinson was could no longer compete in the current era.

Jussi has only recently retired so he clearly could play in this era, Al-Habsi has just retired so he clearly could to and Matthews who played for us last season is still in the game - so by your own admission if Hopkinson couldn't then there MUST be at least three players better than him!

I'm not taking away how wonderful he was in his own generation, I'm not disrespecting what he achieved for England and our club, I'm not trash talking many people's favourite, I'm simply saying if you ranked the players as to who is the best - and at least THREE players can and have got into Bolton teams that physically Hopkinson could not, then he simply can not be one of the two best keepers we EVER had.

Can he?



T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They weren't giving us their top scorer, they were  selling him for what they believed to be a good price. One goal in 17 games at Championship level suggests it was too much.

Only problem was that the buyers didn't have the money to buy him or pay his wages but plainly hoped they would/might have in a few months time.

FGR was losing money but not strapped for cash -that came from Ecotricity - so they could afford to wait. Worst case scenario for FGR was that they'd be a football creditor who get paid in full in any case.

As for Doidge and his agent, they knew full well that he was going to a club that had been unable to pay wages the month before he signed and ought to have known that BWFC could not survive without new money from somewhere.

Nowt complicated about it all really.

All I'm asking is - how do you know that your version of what was agreed in the deal vs FGR's version is the accurate one?

Your version - Bolton agreed to pay on the condition they got investment - which never came so couldn't Doidge 'transfer' cancelled, presumably as agreed at the outset in a situation of no investment.

Vince's version - Bolton failed to make agreed payments for Doidge.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
I think you are taking this too literally Sluffy, it's all subjective but all you can do is look at their respective records in their eras and judge from that. Not sure how you can say someone like Matthews would be judged as better just because they play now and Hopkinson probably couldn't?

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
Stanley Matthews or Brickfeet? Now we know.

sunlight

sunlight
Andy Walker
Andy Walker
Just for your information, it is in fact Jim McDonagh whom has been Boltons best Goalkeeper.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I highly doubt Doidge would have bought a house in the area if he or his agent had even the smallest inkling he wouldn't be signed permanently in January.

Doidge was definitely going to be bought - there would have been a contract signed to the effect.

He was in no different position to the one Matthews was in at the time.

Clearly Eddie Davies was going to be the backstop position to fund the completion of the transfers if need be but sadly he unexpectedly died just a few weeks after the initial deals were struck.

The transfers were to be completed on the 1st January but clearly there were no monies to do so but there was a payment due within a week or so from the EFL and Anderson clearly let both clubs be aware that that was the means of how the deals would be concluded - indeed Vince himself even said initially that it wasn't an issue to wait whilst things were sorted.

However just a couple of days later he went public blasting Anderson - so something obviously changed in those two or three days!

The weird thing that came out at that time was Vince saying he was producing the T-shirts 'No Ken do' with all proceeds going to the BWFC Supporters Trust???

Why?

For what reason?

No smoke without fire.

It seems a completely random thing to do unless of course there had been some contact between the two leading up to his announcement.

The net result was that Norwich and the Matthews deal went smoothly and Vince was paid the wages for Doidge from the EFL payment but by that time had hoicked Doidge back from the £1m deal only to sell him at a half million loss at the end of the season to Hibs.

All seems rather strange when both parties Anderson and Vince knew they were contractually obliged to the transfer and both knew that no matter what the money would be paid with it being a 'footballing creditor' requirement just a week or so later than planned from the scheduled EFL payment.

Seems to me someone whispered in to Vince's ear.

I wonder who and what their reasons might have been?

Answers on a postcard.

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I think you are taking this too literally Sluffy, it's all subjective but all you can do is look at their respective records in their eras and judge from that. Not sure how you can say someone like Matthews would be judged as better just because they play now and Hopkinson probably couldn't?

If you say so.

Seems black and white to me.

If you are deemed good enough you play, if you aren't you don't.

Part of being good enough is your physicality - can you physically do the things you are required to do to get in the team.

If you physically can't pass that criteria you don't get picked and those that do will get picked.

I might be the world's best four foot high keeper the world has ever seen but I would never be picked for Bolton in Hopkinson's day - he would.

Hopkinson might have been the world's best ever 5ft 8 inch goalie but he would not get picked for Bolton in the current era and the likes of Matthews would and has.

If Matthews can get in the team currently and Hopkinson physically couldn't then who by definition is the better keeper of the two - it can't possibly the one who can't physically get in the team can it?

Anyway I've made my point.

I guess people can either see it, or not!


Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I highly doubt Doidge would have bought a house in the area if he or his agent had even the smallest inkling he wouldn't be signed permanently in January.
I know that football players are not all financially astute but if they hadn't the slightest inkling that the money might not be there in January, they must have been the dimmest dimwits in Dimland. How many clues did they need?

Btw did Doidge buy a house or did he just look around?

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Doidge was definitely going to be bought - there would have been a contract signed to the effect.

He was in no different position to the one Matthews was in at the time.

Clearly Eddie Davies was going to be the backstop position to fund the completion of the transfers if need be but sadly he unexpectedly died just a few weeks after the initial deals were struck.

The transfers were to be completed on the 1st January but clearly there were no monies to do so but there was a payment due within a week or so from the EFL and Anderson clearly let both clubs be aware that that was the means of how the deals would be concluded - indeed Vince himself even said initially that it wasn't an issue to wait whilst things were sorted.

However just a couple of days later he went public blasting Anderson - so something obviously changed in those two or three days!

The weird thing that came out at that time was Vince saying he was producing the T-shirts 'No Ken do' with all proceeds going to the BWFC Supporters Trust???

Why?

For what reason?

No smoke without fire.

It seems a completely random thing to do unless of course there had been some contact between the two leading up to his announcement.

The net result was that Norwich and the Matthews deal went smoothly and Vince was paid the wages for Doidge from the EFL payment but by that time had hoicked Doidge back from the £1m deal only to sell him at a half million loss at the end of the season to Hibs.

All seems rather strange when both parties Anderson and Vince knew they were contractually obliged to the transfer and both knew that no matter what the money would be paid with it being a 'footballing creditor' requirement just a week or so later than planned from the scheduled EFL payment.

Seems to me someone whispered in to Vince's ear.

I wonder who and what their reasons might have been?

Answers on a postcard.
Would Eddie really have coughed up yet again, Sluffy? He'd gone the extra mile time without number but I'm not sure he would have done on this occasion, if he had still been alive.

Natasha Whittam

Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:When you rank people you do it in order, best first, next best second and so on - yes?

Thanks for clearing that up, I had no idea that's how it works.

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
Laughing

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Would Eddie really have coughed up yet again, Sluffy? He'd gone the extra mile time without number but I'm not sure he would have done on this occasion, if he had still been alive.

I don't know obviously but there clearly had been some help from Eddie to Anderson in the past and when we signed Doidge they both must have known what the clubs financial position was at the time.

Eddie had continually bailed the club out and I guess the question would have been would he had not done so again?

Clearly his Trust (EDT) and his family have honoured his legacy of the club by simply not liquidating it to get their money back but rather deferring when they are likely to get it back by keeping the club alive and securing the debt on the clubs new owners instead.

Maybe things had gone sour between the two by then but as I say they both would have known what the financial position of the club was and my view fwiw is that I believe Eddie would have put his hand in his pocket once more if he had to do.

The irony of all this though is that Vince would have been paid directly by the EFL themselves from the payment scheduled to all clubs just a week or so after the original settlement between Bolton and FGR was due and as it happens there wasn't actually a need at that time (maybe a few weeks down the line though there might well of been!) for Eddie to put his money in at all!

All water under the bridge now, Anderson has gone, the club still exists thanks largely to FV wanting it to be and Eddie's legacy of the millions he put into it and his family still not taken it all out yet - even though they could and Doidge, through no fault of his own, turning up trumps for himself up in Scotland.

The stink if any was why did Vince do a U-turn (which was quite clearly not necessary - the money was definitely going to be there just a week later) and how and why did the ST's name suddenly crop up for no apparent reason slap bang in the middle of his U-turn?

Time to move on though really.

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know that football players are not all financially astute but if they hadn't the slightest inkling that the money might not be there in January, they must have been the dimmest dimwits in Dimland. How many clues did they need?

Btw did Doidge buy a house or did he just look around?
As far as i remember yes he had bought a house.

T.R.O.Y.


Tony Kelly
Tony Kelly
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

All I'm asking is - how do you know that your version of what was agreed in the deal vs FGR's version is the accurate one?

Your version - Bolton agreed to pay on the condition they got investment - which never came so couldn't Doidge 'transfer' cancelled, presumably as agreed at the outset in a situation of no investment.

Vince's version - Bolton failed to make agreed payments for Doidge.

Unsure if you missed this one Bob?

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Unsure if you missed this one Bob?
Not a condition, just the basic fact that BWFC was going into admin without new money and if Vince and Doidge's agent hadn't cottoned on to that they were both numpties.

Ten Bobsworth


Andy Walker
Andy Walker
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
As far as i remember yes he had bought a house.
If he did he should have been asking questions of his agent for any losses incurred.

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