The Giro 2020

Yes very bad day for Thomas, he's not going to get eleven minutes back on Nibali and lesser amounts on the other GC's unless something major happens to them too.

Yes Ganna wouldn't have been in Pink after today if he hadn't helped Thomas, he's not a climber and many others are.  Even if he had somehow managed to hang on in the lead he could never hold it for long as there are simply too many mountain stages for him to defend his lead against, so it was never a sacrifice as such, just a normal development of the race.

Both the Giro and Vuelta love their mountains even more than the TdF does, so in a sense harder races too - but it does make for more gripping viewing for us who don't have to race them!

Thanks for that makes sense now, a lot of hills to come, who would you fancy  to be in the best position at this point , Nibali ?

If I were Ineos, I would pull Thomas out of the Giro tomorrow and hopefully let him recover for the Vuelta and go with two team leaders there in Thomas and Froome.

Froome's ridden with Thomas for years and I don't think it would be an issue for either one of them.

It's the only way Ineos can salvage their season now.

A few daft questions 

When does a season start and finish (without Covid) is there a close season.

Are there equivelent top races in the US or say China or is Europe THE place to ride?

Is there a set number of top teams read about three divisions and 18 teams in top division ? if so am i watching these 18 teams at the TDF & Giro

Do all the teams compete in every tour or do some miss say the TDF for the Giro or Spain.

wessy wrote:Thanks for that makes sense now, a lot of hills to come, who would you fancy  to be in the best position at this point , Nibali ?

Nibali is the class of the field but he is getting on a bit now in cycling terms.

Saying that non of the other GC contenders there have given him problems in the past but there may be some new riders there unknown to me like todays winner for instance.

Kruijswijk though is the inform rider and would have ridden the TdF if he hadn't had a crash in a race leading up to it. (He's the one in the clip I put up who crashed in the snow when leading the Giro a couple of years ago)

I would say those are the two to watch in my opinion from now on, Kelderman, Pozzovivo and Fuglsang have been around for years and have don't anything and McNulty is riding in a team who will be racing for Gavira in the sprints, so won't have the support he will need in the mountains.

Should still be a good race though and as Thomas himself found out today anything can happen in just a few moments in cycling and change the whole game!

wessy wrote:A few daft questions 

When does a season start and finish (without Covid) is there a close season.

Are there equivelent top races in the US or say China or is Europe THE place to ride?

Is there a set number of top teams read about three divisions and 18 teams in top division ? if so am i watching these 18 teams at the TDF & Giro

Do all the teams compete in every tour or do some miss say the TDF for the Giro or Spain.

Cycling goes on all the year round but we really are only talking about races under the cycling governing body - the UCI - (like FIFA is to football) and they start the season in January BUT with races in Australia and Argentina for instance, where it is their summer, then over in Europe in spring in March/April time with the three Tours being the Giro in May, TdF in July and Vuelta in September.

In between the Tours there are a number of races, some being for a day and others up to a week in length (The Tour of Yorkshire for instance is for 4 days).

The organisation is split into leagues if you think about it in football terms, the top teams are like the Premier League and must ride in all the top races around the world, they can be based anywhere in the world (Simon Yates team is based in Australia for instance) but the next league down is continental teams who stick to riding on their continent - American teams in America, South American in south America and so on.

There's not really great money in cycling and it all depends for financing a team from a willing sponsor - so quite often teams change names and team colours when they move from one sponsor to another.

There are three levels of cycling this being the top one and will have all the teams you know in it -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCI_World_Tour

This is the second level - continental -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCI_Continental_Circuits

The third level would be the national cycling federation of each country of which to be honest I know little about, sorry.

Cycling is really a European sport but each country does have its 'big' races (particularly the USA) but nothing in comparison to the TdF which is really the Mecca of cycling for most people.

All the 'world' teams have to compete at all the Tours and so many out of the rest of the cycling calendar (something like 15 out of the 20 scheduled events - or something like that I don't really know the numbers) but the Tours are were the big money is for them/their sponsors anyway.

I think I've covered most of your points but if I haven't just say and I'll do my best to give you an answer of some form, even if it is to say I don't know!

Thank you will read the above links.

I have learned that the 3 big tours in Europe (France, Italy, Spain) plus the 5 monuments are the cream of the races.

Was suprised to see that 3 of the one day classics are literally within weeks of each other.

1 in March 
3 in April
i in Autumn 

So A big gap between race 4 and 5 i assume that's when the three tours usually fit in.

So to keep mithering just trying to get used to the sport.

I'm not sure because until 1995 the Vuelta and Giro were both raced before the TdF so I suspect it's more to do with the history and traditions of the Monuments setting their dates first and maybe changing them a little bit to fit in local needs perhaps?  I think the local customs and weather at those times of year defines the individual races which would be lost if they ever had to change months to fit the races in - although that's exactly is what has had to happen this year.

I've always accepted the dates and races for what they are and never wondered why they are set on those dates - remember most of the monuments date back to before the first world war.

I've never really got into the Monuments I much prefer the Tours myself but there is a famous film called A Sunday in Hell which is about the 1976 Paris - Roubaix race (which is famously known as the 'Hell of the North' - hence the film title).

Paris - Roubaix being one of the monument races.

If you are interested in watching it I post it below but I can't say I found it too interesting when I first watched in several years ago, so don't feel obligated to watch it if you don't want.

Thanks will give it a try and see how the film goes.

Well i am certainly enjoying the tours and the only monument race i ahve seen is literally the finish in Leige but that was quite a finish.

The reason i mentioned the dates of the big 5 was really from the viewpoint of recovery for the athletes, at first it seemed a big ask three major races of say 6 hours in the saddle each week, Thinking in terms of having to say race a marathon each week.  But then i realised that during a tour these guys are doing 4+ hours every day for three weeks, so a walk in the park lol.

Video of the Thomas fall where a discarded bottle (bidon) from the Bahrain team got trapped between his spokes and brought him crashing down.

pic.twitter.com/ajLvG5bGbT

— Salvatore Bertuccio (@salxber) October 5, 2020

Sluffy wrote:Video of the Thomas fall where a discarded bottle (bidon) from the Bahrain team got trapped between his spokes and brought him crashing down.

pic.twitter.com/ajLvG5bGbT

— Salvatore Bertuccio (@salxber) October 5, 2020

Did someone from the Bahrain team throw it at his wheel? Presumably the decor of the bottle identified it as a Bahraini bottle, but was foul play suspected and if not, how did it get into his spokes?

wanderlust wrote:Did someone from the Bahrain team throw it at his wheel? Presumably the decor of the bottle identified it as a Bahraini bottle, but was foul play suspected and if not, how did it get into his spokes?

Try watching the video...

Geraint Thomas pulls out of Giro d'Italia with fractured hip

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/54434120

Season over for him then I would imagine.

Unlucky but such is cycling - anything can happen - and often does!

Sluffy wrote:

Try watching the video...

Ah - saw it at the third time of asking. TBF there were a few water bottles on the road.

Another great finish, fancy having to wait for a photo finish after 140k.

Before my interest started this year i always thought the Pelaton was a bit player full of the riders who couldn't go with the pace, how wrong can you be, If i am reading correctly? the race is directed by the pelaton, they decide if a break away can go, they decide if the breakaway needs to be brought back, the team work including the race directors is a well thought out process that needs to be executed and when it works it really is something to see. 

Add to that the races within a race for the sprint or mountain stages etc  it becomes quite enthralling.

The Bora cyclist Mateo Fabbro put a couple of shifts in the last two stages.

Yes you've sort of got it but it is a little bit more refined than how you describe it.

The peloton basically means the 'main' body of the racers and you've got it spot on in what you say about most of it but remember they aren't all equal in the peloton and they all don't necessarily want the same things at the same time.

For instance teams with riders in the breakaway won't help the peloton chase them down in fact they may even go as far to try and slow it down, for instance in a narrow stretch by putting their remaining riders to the front of the peloton and riding slowly so that nobody can pass them and the breakaway gains a few more seconds.  Or if there's a chase on and the peloton is a long string of riders, then deliberately 'losing' the wheel of the rider in front of them, so causing 'breaks' and disrupting the 'rhythm of the rest of the riders, etc.

But generally speaking and throughout most of the day there are enough teams with the same interests (say to catch the days breakaway) for them to achieve it despite the 'defence' the other teams are putting up to prevent it.

The peloton can vary in size to from being the whole field to say eight or ten riders or so towards the end of races on the mountains for instance.

It's a balance if you will between working together for shared interests and working against everyone else for your specific teams objectives.

There is, although no one will admit it, national interest too, where riders from the same country but on different teams may well help each other out.  You will sometimes see for instance a rider in a breakaway up a mountain and being caught by a GC rider making a breakaway from the other GC's 'suddenly' get a second wind and be the lead-out man for his fellow countryman so as to give him a vital breather for half a minute or more as he spends what energy he has left giving his mate a 'tow' up the hill!  The other GC riders from other country's don't seem to get lucky with getting a free tow when they catch up with remnants of the breakaway who are not fellow countrymen!  The French are particularly bad for doing this, especially on the TdF where the whole nation is desperate for a French win after having non in about 40 years!

Similarly you will see French teams on the front 'driving' the peloton on for no apparent reason for themselves but it is saving another French team using up their energy chasing after a GC contender who has broken away!

It's all wheels within wheels, games are being played alliences made when it suits and broken when it doesn't, rivals work together to bring another rival down, then in a later stage of that Tour work with the one you brought down against the bloke who helped you bring him down!

The peloton isn't bothered about brining breakaways back, their concern is what is best for their individual teams.  So if it is say a sprinters stage, the sprint teams will work together to bring the breakaways back and the GC teams do nothing but ride at tempo at the front of the peloton but not work in the chase - the reverse is true if it isn't a sprint stage but a GC stage instead.

Incidentally the reason why GC riders still ride at the front even though it may be a sprinters stage is for 'safety'.  In simple terms if there is a crash in front of you, you might not be able to avoid it and crash yourself.  If it happens behind you, you wont be effected - and that's why you will most always see the GC riders towards the head of the peloton on any stage.

I've rambled on a bit and you did have more or less a good understanding to begin with but I wanted you to know it was quite that black and white as you may have thought.

Bad incident today, one of the TV helicopters flew too low near the riders near the end of the race a blew an unsecured barrier into them.  Reports are coming out that one of the riders may have broken his back.  Hope not.

#Giro ATENCIÓN: Informa el equipo italiano @ZabuBradoKTM que su corredor Luca Wackermann se retira de la carrera porque fue impactado por una valla que voló a la vía por el fuerte viento. Pronta recuperación. pic.twitter.com/agnKrdpR6L

— ColombiaSports.net (@colombiasports) October 6, 2020

Thanks Sluffy good to put more detail in the mix, i am getting there slowly and i do understand in general the complex things that are going on so i do follow your explanation.

To be honest the thing i struggle with most (dont laugh) is understanding and picking up the finer points from the commentators, this is due to all the terminology that comes so easy to them ie the Italian routes and mountains added to the team names that they sometimes say in full and confuse me and all the riders names being primarily foreign, it all becames a complex muddle lol.

I realise this is my lack of understanding and has the knowledge grows the easier it will be, just at this minute it really is hard to pick up on all that's happening. or maybe i am a bit slow lol.

No, not at all, it takes some doing trying to learn foreign names, foreign places, understand the sport itself from scratch and follow what commentators are saying which let's be frank, is for the ears of seasoned cycle watchers and not newbies like your good self.

I think you've done remarkably well understanding so quickly what you have, don't forget I've been into cycling for forty odd years or more!

It is actually a good season to start because it is a changing of the guard really from the Froome and Thomas era into the younger generation of Pogacar, Ganna, Hirschi, Wout van Aert, Remco Evenepoel (who you haven't even seen yet - he's the one who had a bad crash and I posted up a video of his team manager removing some package from his back pocket), Bernal, and several other new or newish kids on the block!

Don't worry about getting mixed up with names or places, all that will come in time, just continue to enjoy the theatre of it all as I do.

Just for information but there was a ladies version of Liege - Bastogne - Liege and a British girl won it!

I'm not a big fan of ladies races but you might find it to your liking -

Yes your right of course it will come with time, with two Daughters and 4 Granddaughters , i guess i should watch it lol.

Ganna showed he's much more than a time trialist, awesome, i recorded the programme and watched the last 40k just as he came around the final corner the bloody recording stopped!!!!  seen the results and more to come today. That was a mega distance yesterday to shows Gannas range another talent to watch.

Ganna is from the same 'school' as the likes of Wiggins and Thomas in that he's come from a 'track' background and posses a supreme engine and natural body shape to time trial (individual pursuit its called in the velodromes).

Obviously the race distances are hugely different from indoor to the road but you have to remember he doesn't ride them all in TT mode. Just like the GC riders are given a 'free' ride until they are needed at the end of the race, Ganna is only wheeled out when he is needed to which in this Tour was to chase things down when required to keep Thomas in GC contention.

As Thomas is out, Ineos strategy is now to target stage wins and it's fairly clear they saw an immediate chance to do that on yesterdays stage. It was no coincidence that Ganna had a fellow team mate in the breakaway with him - to chase things down for Ganna if need be and help him in anyway he could - and the training and performance Ganna has shown away from the actual races would show what he is capable of doing on the road, given a chance.

The course is obviously crucial in the strategy, he's unlikely to TT away at the end and beat the chasing group up a mountain as he could over a flat finish - so it was all calculated that if he could reach a certain point in the race and hadn't taken too much out of himself getting to that point that on paper at least, he stood a good chance of winning - which he did.

Wiggins and Thomas went on to slim themselves down in weight but crucially still retain their power and transformed themselves into GC contenders - the ones that win big time in the TT's and defend in the mountains.

I don't know if that's the career path for Ganna, some recent TT riders like Cancellara (the one I put up a clip about him having an engine in his bike!) and Tony Martin haven't for what ever reason but if he can then he's going to be a formidable GC rider for the others to beat.

As for missing the endings I've done that loads of times back in the good old video recorder days!!!