How is the Tory government doing?

Seems to me that the Tories are two parties, not one. Having made the general election a single issue platform, none of the divisions really surfaced at the time but they are creeping in now.

On the one hand we have one group on the right of the party who seem to want to use Brexit to introduce a Thatcher Mk2 era - they are against "levelling up", increasing NI to pay for social care and pretty much any major public spending programmes.

The other lot seem to want more, not less public spending in order to prop up the red wall seats they recently gained.

This may come to a head when Gove's "Levelling Up White Paper" comes out as it will in essence formulate the Tories' Brexit policy road map.

If the paper is a robust commitment to serious investment, the right of the party will be marginalised and it will help to shore up the Tories position able to retain the new seats they won throughout England (although that won't go down well in their middle England heartland) - but if it's waffle it will open the door for a Labour party that is moving back towards the middle ground and is eyeing up the seats they lost.

The Get Brexit Done election threw a veil over Tory in-fighting but when Gove's paper is released  it may be exposed again - and it makes the selection of a potential replacement for Boris more interesting as both groups will want their man or woman in the job.

He's going to have to be dragged out kicking and screaming, but it needs to happen soon, and the sooner the better. A truly dreadful human being he may well be, (and he definitely is), but the one thing you have to give him is that he is a real fighter who never gives up. I think he knows he can rely on "Sue's in depth impartial investigation"  to give him enough wriggle room to try and justify his ridiculous lies and fabrications. In a few weeks time the initial public outpouring of disgust and anger will have calmed slightly and calls for his immediate resignation will die down. Give him a few more months and most of this will be in the past and he'll be back to his gobby, awful, blustering worst.

The other thing you have to give him is that he is a vote winning machine, especially with women.
Ageist and sexist I know but I've seen more than a few old dears interviewed today who have said words to the effect of "Yes, he's been a very naughty boy but I've always liked Boris and I'll still vote for him."

Move forward 2/3 years and provided he has behaved himself reasonably and is still PM, this scandal will just be part of Boris's dim and distant past. He will win another election for the Tories, again with a big majority. 

We need to get rid NOW.

Hip Priest wrote:He's going to have to be dragged out kicking and screaming, but it needs to happen soon, and the sooner the better. A truly dreadful human being he may well be, (and he definitely is), but the one thing you have to give him is that he is a real fighter who never gives up. I think he knows he can rely on "Sue's in depth impartial investigation"  to give him enough wriggle room to try and justify his ridiculous lies and fabrications. In a few weeks time the initial public outpouring of disgust and anger will have calmed slightly and calls for his immediate resignation will die down. Give him a few more months and most of this will be in the past and he'll be back to his gobby, awful, blustering worst.

The other thing you have to give him is that he is a vote winning machine, especially with women.
Ageist and sexist I know but I've seen more than a few old dears interviewed today who have said words to the effect of "Yes, he's been a very naughty boy but I've always liked Boris and I'll still vote for him."

Move forward 2/3 years and provided he has behaved himself reasonably and is still PM, this scandal will just be part of Boris's dim and distant past. He will win another election for the Tories, again with a big majority. 

We need to get rid NOW.

I think a lot of old dears - and a lot of swing voters in general in the "red wall" seats voted Tory because they were sold on the nationalist pipedream - but also because they simply didn't want Corbyn - under any circumstances.

A large proportion of the electorate don't really understand politics or economics or global society or even the impact it has on them - until the actual price and tax rises and food shortages etc come along but what they do "understand" are media portrayals and character presentations.  And by "understand" I mean take them at face value in this context.

What disappoints me is that many now recognise that Boris is a habitual  liar but never get round to considering what else he has lied to them about. Perhaps they daren't even think about it?

Starmer is generally portrayed as being an honest toff but that's not enough and whilst Rayner is excellent at wrapping Boris round her little finger - and getting to the point - not all women like a strong woman so I'm left wondering how Labour are going to compete in the personality wars.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:



What a load of old bollocks that is.

Explain it then brainbox. I was not allowed to sit with my wife. My daughter was not allowed to sit with her mother. 5 or 6 Pakistani family members sitting with their patient, and you think I’m the one talking Bollocks.

I can also tell you categorically that during the clap for the NHS, which is the period of BoJo’s Partygate criticism, lots of businesses were sending in food and goods to the wards for the nurses. Amongst this were Curry dinners, coffees, doughnuts and other goodies, which the nursing staff (my daughter included) shared together after shifts. Surely this was just as much against the rules as Boris’ in work Cheese and wine assemblies? Or is it one rule for the NHS and another for Boris because you don’t like him? I’m not defending the meetings, just making the point that it can happen in other situations as well.

The food donated to NHS staff (which i was lucky enough to receive) was because staff were and still are at breaking point because of covid and associated staff shortages so yes, it is completely different to Boris and his piss taking staff claiming to be having a work meeting.

You've let yourself down there massively 63, i'm genuinely offended by your comment.

I think it's bollocks that someone came and told you they couldn't do anything out of fear of being called racist. I think you decided it was that because you live in a fantasy world where your way of life is under threat.

Personally, I don't care about the specific of him having a party in itself, but it's yet another deception from a government and man with a horrendous track record in this area. It undermines confidence in politics and gives them free reign to lie about far more serious matters - take Brexit for example.

The sooner we get this entire party out of government the better for this country.

Norp wrote: it is completely different to Boris and his piss taking staff claiming to be having a work meeting.

Doesn't the NHS have BYOB work meetings mate?

I thought getting sloshed at a work meeting was normal practice.

Hang on...that'd be a party I'm thinking of.

wanderlust wrote:
I think a lot of old dears - and a lot of swing voters in general in the "red wall" seats voted Tory because they were sold on the nationalist pipedream - but also because they simply didn't want Corbyn - under any circumstances.

A large proportion of the electorate don't really understand politics or economics or global society or even the impact it has on them - until the actual price and tax rises and food shortages etc come along but what they do "understand" are media portrayals and character presentations.  And by "understand" I mean take them at face value in this context.

What disappoints me is that many now recognise that Boris is a habitual  liar but never get round to considering what else he has lied to them about. Perhaps they daren't even think about it?

Starmer is generally portrayed as being an honest toff but that's not enough and whilst Rayner is excellent at wrapping Boris round her little finger - and getting to the point - not all women like a strong woman so I'm left wondering how Labour are going to compete in the personality wars.

Good points Lusty but I also agree with HP that Boris will ride this out and has more than 3 years left before the next election. They say a weeks a long time in politics so 3 years is more than enough and a lot can happen in that time to redeem himself. More difficult for him to overcome are the potential splits in the party you’ve quoted on the levelling up agenda v true Toryism policies. He’s also got to better deliver the benefits of Brexit and in the short term overcome the energy cost crisis which will hit in April. That’s a big agenda but the good part from BoJo’s perspective is that it will take the spotlight off Partygate.

Let’s be honest, the inquest being held on the party’s isn’t going to hang Boris out to dry, it will be worded to fit in with what he’s already said and some of his underlings will be fired, probably to reappear somewhere else later. Of course it’s possible there could be even more revelations to come out yet because there’s obviously a concerted effort to force him out, though we’re not sure where from. Whoever it is, eventually that will also come out and if it’s Labour Party based, it could backfire badly on them. As for Starmer and Rayner, neither of them can hold a candle to Boris for charisma, however detestable he may be and if that’s the best Labour have to offer, you can forget the next election, whatever Boris has or hasn’t done.

Norpig wrote:The food donated to NHS staff (which i was lucky enough to receive) was because staff were and still are at breaking point because of covid and associated staff shortages so yes, it is completely different to Boris and his piss taking staff claiming to be having a work meeting.

You've let yourself down there massively 63, i'm genuinely offended by your comment.

I’m not saying they weren’t at breaking point, my daughter was amongst them and I know only too well how hard they worked but I’m sure those in No 10 trying to offset the effects of the virus were also working hard, long hours and under stress. It isn’t in any way diminishing the work of the NHS to point out that colleagues from both took a break from work for refreshment and technically breaking the rules. It’s your personal judgement to consider one perfectly acceptable but the other not when both “technically” should not have taken place. You can quite legitimately claim they aren’t the same thing and I wouldn’t personally disagree with you but that still doesn’t change the fact they were both breaking rules.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:I think it's bollocks that someone came and told you they couldn't do anything out of fear of being called racist. I think you decided it was that because you live in a fantasy world where your way of life is under threat.

Personally, I don't care about the specific of him having a party in itself, but it's yet another deception from a government and man with a horrendous track record in this area. It undermines confidence in politics and gives them free reign to lie about far more serious matters - take Brexit for example.

The sooner we get this entire party out of government the better for this country.

Troy, I know you find facts difficult to accept when they don’t fit your own little agenda but when asked why they were not being treated equally, that was the reply given, nothing to do with my “fantasy” world as you put it. Grow up man.

As for BoJo, I might agree with you about him personally but he still has massive support compared to anybody the Labour Party can put up so sadly you’re going to just have to put up with this Tory government for a long time yet

Whitesince63 wrote:

I’m not saying they weren’t at breaking point, my daughter was amongst them and I know only too well how hard they worked but I’m sure those in No 10 trying to offset the effects of the virus were also working hard, long hours and under stress. It isn’t in any way diminishing the work of the NHS to point out that colleagues from both took a break from work for refreshment and technically breaking the rules. It’s your personal judgement to consider one perfectly acceptable but the other not when both “technically” should not have taken place. You can quite legitimately claim they aren’t the same thing and I wouldn’t personally disagree with you but that still doesn’t change the fact they were both breaking rules.

so what i gather from that response is....

Having grown up in Birmingham the amount of times I’ve heard people say they couldn’t do something ‘for fear of being called racist’ would astonish you. It tends to be complete bollocks, as if white people are unable to live freely in this country.

I’m no fan of Starmer, but one poll today had Labour 10 points ahead. I do feel this cycle is coming to an end and the country are ready for change. 

As much as I dislike what I know about Boris as a man he has shown a willingness to take decisions which are unpopular with the crackpot Tory members and back benchers - raise taxes, address climate change (although he hasn’t gone far enough). So I do worry his replacement has weaker direction (Truss/Sunak) and we end up taking another step backwards, to failed projects like austerity.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Good points Lusty but I also agree with HP that Boris will ride this out and has more than 3 years left before the next election. They say a weeks a long time in politics so 3 years is more than enough and a lot can happen in that time to redeem himself. More difficult for him to overcome are the potential splits in the party you’ve quoted on the levelling up agenda v true Toryism policies. He’s also got to better deliver the benefits of Brexit and in the short term overcome the energy cost crisis which will hit in April. That’s a big agenda but the good part from BoJo’s perspective is that it will take the spotlight off Partygate.

Let’s be honest, the inquest being held on the party’s isn’t going to hang Boris out to dry, it will be worded to fit in with what he’s already said and some of his underlings will be fired, probably to reappear somewhere else later. Of course it’s possible there could be even more revelations to come out yet because there’s obviously a concerted effort to force him out, though we’re not sure where from. Whoever it is, eventually that will also come out and if it’s Labour Party based, it could backfire badly on them. As for Starmer and Rayner, neither of them can hold a candle to Boris for charisma, however detestable he may be and if that’s the best Labour have to offer, you can forget the next election, whatever Boris has or hasn’t done.

I also agree Boris will probably hang on but for different reasons which I've mentioned elsewhere. As Sluffy regularly points out "once you're in power you do everything you can to hang on to it" and in this case the Leader Group dining club has too much vested interest in Boris and in the absence of an alternative they won't arrange for his removal just yet.
Obviously the backbenchers - especially those in marginal seats e.g. red wall or in countries where there is antipathy for Boris anyway - will squeak a bit but not enough of them dare go to the 1922 to push for a vote.
That said, this is just one more cock up in a string of cock ups so it's really a matter of reaching the point when the Tories decide that the reputational damage Boris causes and the discontent in the relevant parts of the electorate outweighs his personal popularity.

As an aside, Le Petomane and Stalin had "charisma" but I wouldn't want either of them running the country

wanderlust wrote:
I also agree Boris will probably hang on but for different reasons which I've mentioned elsewhere. As Sluffy regularly points out "once you're in power you do everything you can to hang on to it" and in this case the Leader Group dining club has too much vested interest in Boris and in the absence of an alternative they won't arrange for his removal just yet.
Obviously the backbenchers - especially those in marginal seats e.g. red wall or in countries where there is antipathy for Boris anyway - will squeak a bit but not enough of them dare go to the 1922 to push for a vote.
That said, this is just one more cock up in a string of cock ups so it's really a matter of reaching the point when the Tories decide that the reputational damage Boris causes and the discontent in the relevant parts of the electorate outweighs his personal popularity.

As an aside, Le Petomane and Stalin had "charisma" but I wouldn't want either of them running the country

Le Petomane had a similar problem to our present day Tories. How do they keep their arsehole under control?

boltonbonce wrote:
Le Petomane had a similar problem to our present day Tories. How do they keep their arsehole under control?

At least Le Petomane could get a decent tune out of his...

wanderlust wrote:
At least Le Petomane could get a decent tune out of his...

That's true. A virtuoso of the sphincter.

Motorist stopped for speeding says he didn't realise he was in a car.....

Well, well, it seems the holier than thou Labour Party have been cuddling up to the Chinese Communist Party, especially Barry Gardner who’s pocketed over half a million and even employed the son of the named spy in his Westminster office. Could have paid for a few cosy wine and cheese parties with that I’d say? We now find out this has been kicking about since 2017, so why has it only just come out so publicly? Call me old fashioned but might there be too much of a coincidence that the Labour leadership might have to respond to this rather than wine and cheese parties at No 10? Clearly this is serious stuff and might just remove that perceived 10 point Labour lead in the polls as the country once again sees that even under new management Labour can’t be trusted? They always say he who laughs last laughs longest and given his Teflon reputation, Boris might just have made it again. Was it Napoleon who also said he’d rather have Lucky generals??

Whitesince63 wrote:We now find out this has been kicking about since 2017, so why has it only just come out so publicly?

...erm...because the Tory media have been scraping the barrel to try to find some dirt to dish at this time of PR crisis?

And it's a bit of a stretch given that Starmer's first act as leader was to kick Gardiner out of the Shadow Cabinet anyway - and the government conveniently only classified Lee as a foreign agent THIS WEEK.