How is the Tory government doing?

Spending £600k on Gardiner - presumably for influence over policy? - feels like a massive waste of money to me. This would actually be worth an enquiry though. If any of the MPs who received donations have pushed a pro-China agenda then their motivations need to be examined.

Meanwhile, another party comes to light the night before Prince Phillips funeral. The flag shaggers will be furious about that one I’m sure….

boltonbonce wrote:

I hope everyone watched Question Time last night....especially you, WS63.....

Excellent audience and panel (bar one burbling, floundering member) were united in condemnation of Tories.....and this in a normally staunch blue constituency. The mood of the country laid bare.

And then overnight, the usually Boris-supporting D Telegraph revealed more scandalous, crass Tory behaviour, which in effect insulted the Queen at the worst possible moment for her.

Senior Tory MP Caroline Nokes had said that Boris must go as he was ruining the Tory brand: I would only take issue with her by saying that he's been confirming the Tory callous, insensitive brand.

T.R.O.Y. wrote:Spending £600k on Gardiner - presumably for influence over policy? - feels like a massive waste of money to me. This would actually be worth an enquiry though. If any of the MPs who received donations have pushed a pro-China agenda then their motivations need to be examined.

Think you mean inquiry.



Anyway I thought it sounded preposterous too, so I had a bit of a nosey about and it seems this woman has been around for years and is pictured with the likes of Cameron and May, Corbyn and even Ken Livingstone

Seems she donated to Ed Davey (LD).

The narrative I read (no idea if it's true but would explain her involvement with Gardiner) was that her agenda was to push China's interests in energy and the connection between Gardiner and Davey who she is known to have donated too that Davey was Energy Minister in the coalition government and Gardiner Energy spokesman in the shadow cabinet.

It seems at first glance to me that she/China was making themselves 'sweet' with all political parties to gain influence of future policies in these and similar areas.  In other words backing all the horses in the race to ensure they are on the winner.

Think projects like Sizewell and 5G which China gained huge contracts in and all the reluctance by the Tory government initially not to backtrack on although both were deemed to be national security risks.

Could all be bollocks but as you say £600k for Gardiner's influence on things is just ridiculous unless the thinking was Labour may have won a GE under Corbyn and Gardiner may well have been the Minister on these issues that China had in their pocket?

Fair play to Gardiner for at least disclosing these sums - he might well have been played but he does appear to have acted honestly though.

I know you and others don't like the Mail but the link below shows loads of pictures of the woman with all the various politicians of all parties going back a number of years - so it is clearly not something that has just been happening.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10399805/Former-Labour-minister-says-Christine-Lee-communist-agent-TODAY.html

okocha wrote:I hope everyone watched Question Time last night....especially you, WS63.....

Excellent audience and panel (bar one burbling, floundering member) were united in condemnation of Tories.....and this in a normally staunch blue constituency. The mood of the country laid bare.

And then overnight, the usually Boris-supporting D Telegraph revealed more scandalous, crass Tory behaviour, which in effect insulted the Queen at the worst possible moment for her.

Senior Tory MP Caroline Nokes had said that Boris must go as he was ruining the Tory brand: I would only take issue with her by saying that he's been confirming the Tory callous, insensitive brand.

Rubbish programme since that awful woman took over and considers it’s about her rather than the audience and Caroline Noakes is one of the worst Tory MPs in Parliament.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Rubbish programme since that awful woman took over and considers it’s about her rather than the audience and Caroline Noakes is one of the worst Tory MPs in Parliament.

I agree. I stopped watching after David Dimbleby retired from it.

Whitesince63 wrote:

Rubbish programme since that awful woman took over and considers it’s about her rather than the audience and Caroline Noakes is one of the worst Tory MPs in Parliament.

They both speak well of you, though

Sluffy wrote:

Think you mean inquiry.



Anyway I thought it sounded preposterous too, so I had a bit of a nosey about and it seems this woman has been around for years and is pictured with the likes of Cameron and May, Corbyn and even Ken Livingstone

Seems she donated to Ed Davey (LD).

The narrative I read (no idea if it's true but would explain her involvement with Gardiner) was that her agenda was to push China's interests in energy and the connection between Gardiner and Davey who she is known to have donated too that Davey was Energy Minister in the coalition government and Gardiner Energy spokesman in the shadow cabinet.

It seems at first glance to me that she/China was making themselves 'sweet' with all political parties to gain influence of future policies in these and similar areas.  In other words backing all the horses in the race to ensure they are on the winner.

Think projects like Sizewell and 5G which China gained huge contracts in and all the reluctance by the Tory government initially not to backtrack on although both were deemed to be national security risks.

Could all be bollocks but as you say £600k for Gardiner's influence on things is just ridiculous unless the thinking was Labour may have won a GE under Corbyn and Gardiner may well have been the Minister on these issues that China had in their pocket?

Fair play to Gardiner for at least disclosing these sums - he might well have been played but he does appear to have acted honestly though.

I know you and others don't like the Mail but the link below shows loads of pictures of the woman with all the various politicians of all parties going back a number of years - so it is clearly not something that has just been happening.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10399805/Former-Labour-minister-says-Christine-Lee-communist-agent-TODAY.html

I would add that Gardiner a) declared all the money and MI5 were aware of it and cleared it as not being in any way connected to his parliamentary work  b) it was her son who worked for Gardiner not her and c) Gardiner was very good on radio 4's "Any Questions?"

So given the political insignificance of the man, the fact that he declared everything, the fact that MI5 had already cleared him and the fact that he was employing Lee's son, not her - doesn't it seem more than a coincidence that this should be trawled up and framed out of context with scant regard for the facts on the very week that Boris was being slaughtered in the media?

What kind of rag would fabricate such a story?

wanderlust wrote:I would add that Gardiner a) declared all the money and MI5 were aware of it and cleared it as not being in any way connected to his parliamentary work  b) it was her son who worked for Gardiner not her and c) Gardiner was very good on radio 4's "Any Questions?"

So given the political insignificance of the man, the fact that he declared everything, the fact that MI5 had already cleared him and the fact that he was employing Lee's son, not her - doesn't it seem more than a coincidence that this should be trawled up and framed out of context with scant regard for the facts on the very week that Boris was being slaughtered in the media?

What kind of rag would fabricate such a story?

Not sure if you are having a pop at me here?

You have quoted my post in it's entirety to respond to though.

I take it that you aren't but I never mentioned Gardiner employing the Chinese woman - so I haven't a clue why you seem to be wanting to correct me on that point???

Anyway the point you are obviously trying to pedal is that all this is a government plot to take the heat away from Johnson/the government - which is utterly laughable.

For a start the story begins with the security services issuing a warning to parliament - which implies in your conspiratorial world that the government ordered them to 'leak' this story - I very much doubt that is what happens in real life but the clear reason why you are talking utter balls is that even if what you believe is true, the story is absolutely puny compared to the maelstrom consuming Johnson lack of credibility and integrity and in no way will it overshadow and distract from this.

I'm amazed you've not told us that Johnson instructed the Queen to take all Andrew's honours off him this week, in order to feed the press a story to take Boris off the front page!!!

You really are a nutjob who's views are clearly warped and twisted over anything to do with the Tory government.

Downing Street apologises to Queen over lockdown parties

Downing Street has apologised to Buckingham Palace for two staff parties in No 10 the night before Prince Philip's funeral.

The gatherings, first reported by The Telegraph, took place on 16 April 2021 and went on until the early hours.

The PM's spokesman said it was "deeply regrettable that this took place at a time of national mourning".

After the apology, Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said: "This shows just how seriously Boris Johnson has degraded the office of prime minister.

"The Conservatives have let Britain down. An apology isn't the only thing the prime minister should be offering the palace today.

"Boris Johnson should do the decent thing and resign."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59997364



Posted at 12:30
Why did No 10 - rather than the PM - apologise to the Queen?

A spokesman for the prime minister says Boris Johnson has "recognised No 10 should be held to the highest standards and take responsibility for things we did not get right."

Asked why No 10 had apologised rather than Boris Johnson himself, the spokesman says: "Well, again, the prime minister said earlier misjudgments have been made and it's right people apologise, as the PM did earlier this week."

The spokesman says he can't prejudge the inquiry into Downing Street parties being led by Sue Gray, "but we acknowledge the significant public anger, it was regrettable this took place a time of national mourning."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59983239

Sluffy wrote:

Not sure if you are having a pop at me here?

You have quoted my post in it's entirety to respond to though.

I take it that you aren't but I never mentioned Gardiner employing the Chinese woman - so I haven't a clue why you seem to be wanting to correct me on that point???

Anyway the point you are obviously trying to pedal is that all this is a government plot to take the heat away from Johnson/the government - which is utterly laughable.

For a start the story begins with the security services issuing a warning to parliament - which implies in your conspiratorial world that the government ordered them to 'leak' this story - I very much doubt that is what happens in real life but the clear reason why you are talking utter balls is that even if what you believe is true, the story is absolutely puny compared to the maelstrom consuming Johnson lack of credibility and integrity and in no way will it overshadow and distract from this.

I'm amazed you've not told us that Johnson instructed the Queen to take all Andrew's honours off him this week, in order to feed the press a story to take Boris off the front page!!!

You really are a nutjob who's views are clearly warped and twisted over anything to do with the Tory government.

That's a bit paranoid! I was in no way having a go at you - merely pointing out that this "non-story" emerged at a critical time for the PM and serves to deflect.  Coincidence? - draw your own conclusons by all means.

As for The Queen - I'm sure she had other reasons for detaching Andrew from the Royal Family.

And as for the "The Sun" - amazing they didn't mention this latest party in their coverage given that it's deputy editor - Boris's former spokesperson - actually attended it.

Boris can't even manage his own staff at no10 nevermind run the country, its time he went but we all know he will hold on as long as he can and try to ride out the storm.

okocha wrote:
They both speak well of you, though

Doesn’t everybody?? 🥴

Norpig wrote:Boris can't even manage his own staff at no10 nevermind run the country, its time he went but we all know he will hold on as long as he can and try to ride out the storm.

It seems he might hold on Norpig and it also seems that many people are now getting a little tired of the constant stories coming out and it could turn against those who are releasing them. We know how fickle people are but I really think most are more interested in major issues like Covid, immigration and the cost of living which affect them personally. Of course Partygate is awkward for the government but the latest two didn’t seem to involve Boris anyway as he wasn’t there.

I also think that most people accept that they themselves broke rules where they could and there could be a “let him without sin cast the first stone.” Situation arising. Without an obvious replacement I can’t see Tory MPs throwing Boris out but should the May elections be a disaster, that could change. Until then I don’t see it but don’t expect the Tories to just sit back and take it from Labour. I’ve no doubt that somewhere there will be something lurking that can be publicised and if it is, woe betide the likes of Starmer and Others calling for resignations.

A question for everyone - is anybody on here actually genuinely angry about these 'parties' at number 10?

Let me be clear my view is that you lead by example and that the leader takes ultimate responsibility - so Johnson should resign.

I'm not angry or fuming though.

I can understand how many of these events happened - it's normal to say a few words at a leaving gathering, or thank staff for their hard work when the occasions occur.  I can understand work meetings being held in the garden during a Covid summer and tea and biscuits being made available.  I can even understand a bottle or two being opened in the office to celebrate someones birthday after work, etc.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if similar things didn't happen in some shape or form in nearly every large office, factory or store in the country over the last two Covid summers.

Yes they shouldn't have and similar to the saying 'Caesar's wife should be above suspicion', Johnson should carry the can for it happening under his own nose - and mainly by his own Spads.

Rules are rules after all - and Number 10 was telling us what the rules were!

I just feel that there is an awful lot of hypocrisy behind this from people who have probably broken a few Covid rules themselves over the last two years.

Johnson should go for many reasons, this being only one of them (I find his lying about them more damning and damaging than the parties themselves) but I can't get worked up over a number of ill judged but mostly understandable reasons for many of these gatherings to have initially occurred.  They shouldn't have happened but I can understand mostly why they did.

I tend to see this being more as a means to an end, in the same way Al Capone was brought down, namely he wasn't jailed for being a murderous killer - which he was - no one could prove that but they could prove he fiddled his tax returns and that's how they got him in the end.

Anybody genuinely angry over people who were working all day legally and the same people sat at the same desks deemed to be acting illegally just one minute later???

I guess if you lost a loved one you might but I'm sure exactly the same things (and worse) were happening daily throughout the country in one form or another.

Number 10's offices should have been beyond reproach - they weren't - but not everything is black or white is it?

wanderlust wrote:That's a bit paranoid! I was in no way having a go at you - merely pointing out that this "non-story" emerged at a critical time for the PM and serves to deflect.  Coincidence? - draw your own conclusons by all means.

As for The Queen - I'm sure she had other reasons for detaching Andrew from the Royal Family.

And as for the "The Sun" - amazing they didn't mention this latest party in their coverage given that it's deputy editor - Boris's former spokesperson - actually attended it.

Oh dear God, off you go again!!!

I'm not paranoid, I explained that you quoted me then replied to what I'd posted and went on to correct me about something I'd never even said!!!

I even went on to say I DIDN'T think you were having a pop at me but whose to know how your mind works???

By your definition then EVERY story in the press for the last month or so must have been non stories as they they've all emerge at a critical time for the PM and all mean to deflect from him (why print them then if they are not intended to be read and aren't about Johnson?)!!!

Do you reckon every single story not about Boris for the last four weeks have just been published by 'coincidence' - draw your own conclusions about that then you utter loon...

You're barking mad fella, you really are.

We know why the Queen did what she did and I was pointing out the absurdity of your claims that Johnson 'fixed' the national security services to 'plant' a story to take the political heat off him - you really are barmy if you believe what you say.

And I only put the Sun front page up because it had the funniest headline - I suppose all these other papers must have been at Boris piss ups too following your twisted logic...

boltonbonce wrote:

Funny post, but you've not answered my question...

Are you genuinely angry and do you reckon no one else in the entire country hasn't done something similar (if not far, far worse) in not following the rules?

I drove to deliver some stuff to my daughter during the first lockdown, which broke the rules.  She needed the stuff I went to her home and back on my own without speaking to anyone - but strictly speaking I did break the rules.

If my boss came to my desk at 1 minute to 6 to give me work that's within the rules if he returns at 1 minute past 6 to thank me and others for the work we did over the last month, then that's a gathering and illegal.

How as my boss put me or anyone else at risk in just two minutes - yet strictly speaking they (and I) have now broken the rules.

Surely you can see the absurdity?

I can see it becoming an issue if people don't leave after the initial reason for staying on a few minutes longer - once music, dancing and proper drinking begins say - but giving someone a leaving speech or thanking them for their hard work should be a criminal event - and strictly speaking in this scenario they are.

I personally can't get angry over someone doing something innocent and normal in an environment they and everyone around them have been in for the last eight hours or so.

Are you saying you are genuinely angry someone said a few kind words at a leaving speech or for the hard effort that has been put in recently?