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63 can be Eli.
Who are you voting for in the General Election?
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boltonbonce
karlypants
okocha
Norpig
Mad Dog
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Who are you voting for?
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81 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Fri Sep 27, 2024 9:41 pm
Whitesince63
El Hadji Diouf
82 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Fri Sep 27, 2024 9:42 pm
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
I'll take votes on Nora Batty.Whitesince63 wrote:
83 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:14 am
Whitesince63
El Hadji Diouf
Well today’s the day that confirms what a bad decision voting Labour really was and the budget today should confirm my point that even a bad Tory government is preferable to a Labour one. Just look at the front bench a collection of no marks without an ounce of experience or common sense between them. So well done guys because as woeful as the Tory’s were the nation is now rueing the decision to elect such an incompetent and vindictive outfit. The only good thing to come out of this will be that the under fifties will finally see what a truly socialist government is like and never vote Labour again, sadly we have another 5 years of this bunch so we’ll just have to use that time to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
84 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Wed Oct 30, 2024 10:29 am
Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
You do realise the budget today will be as it is because of 14 years of Tory mismanagement? Someone has to sort out the mess they've inherited. I'd rather suffer a bit of pain in extra taxes now if it meant vital resource like the NHS can get back on its feet.
Also with Jenrick or Badenoch going to be the next Tory leader then Labour will be in power for a lot longer than 5 years!
Also with Jenrick or Badenoch going to be the next Tory leader then Labour will be in power for a lot longer than 5 years!
85 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:21 am
Sluffy
Admin
It's simple 63, politics is all about power - nothing else.
The Tories (and Republicans) want power to make those who back them, even more richer than they are now, by crushing the state and deregulating everything - no unions, no minimum wage, no nationalised companies run by the state - they want to get their hands on them on screw them for themselves (see Thames water), to privatise the NHS. Labour (and Democrats) want a fair share of the wealth for the workers and fight for it with unions and legislation, Health and Safety, education, minimum wage, welfare benefits for those that need them, etc.
I guess everyone's politics depend on what sort of a person they are, I believe in fairness and honesty, helping those less fortunate than myself. I have sympathy and compassion for others, you clearly don't.
Seems the world has changed quite a lot in the last few decades to one where looking out for oneself and fuck everyone else, is all that matters to them, as become the norm.
I guess none of this really matters much because in a couple of hundred years (or so) the world will be fucked due to global warming and we will long be gone by then - but our children's children will have to face the consequences of our stupidity now.
I can't do anything to stop it but it makes me feel a bit better by doing the little which I can whilst I'm still around.
The Tories have fucked the economy, there is a black hole to fill, plus repairs needed for what they neglected to do whilst in office - about £40 billion is needed Labour say.
What do you expect Labour to do about it?
Well it could all be a massive lie and there is no blackhole and nothing needs repairing - but the NHS, the lack of policing, the fear of wars, the eroding of societies values and behaviour, suggests to me that it isn't a lie - things are falling apart, things need to be made better - somehow.
They aren't going to tax us hard for fun are they - they clearly need to do it otherwise why piss us all off?
Scoff and crow as much as you want about Labour and Harris - and you do - it won't make anything better for us all, we are already beyond the point of return to make anything much better for the planet - the best we can hope for is that somehow we delay the inevitable as long as we can in the hope that we eventually come to our senses before it is too late and make it less worse than it could have been.
The likes of Trump, Badenoch, Truss, Farage are simply lunatics and these lunatics are about to take over the world along with Putin, and Xi.
If that's what you want, then God help the rest of us.
The Tories (and Republicans) want power to make those who back them, even more richer than they are now, by crushing the state and deregulating everything - no unions, no minimum wage, no nationalised companies run by the state - they want to get their hands on them on screw them for themselves (see Thames water), to privatise the NHS. Labour (and Democrats) want a fair share of the wealth for the workers and fight for it with unions and legislation, Health and Safety, education, minimum wage, welfare benefits for those that need them, etc.
I guess everyone's politics depend on what sort of a person they are, I believe in fairness and honesty, helping those less fortunate than myself. I have sympathy and compassion for others, you clearly don't.
Seems the world has changed quite a lot in the last few decades to one where looking out for oneself and fuck everyone else, is all that matters to them, as become the norm.
I guess none of this really matters much because in a couple of hundred years (or so) the world will be fucked due to global warming and we will long be gone by then - but our children's children will have to face the consequences of our stupidity now.
I can't do anything to stop it but it makes me feel a bit better by doing the little which I can whilst I'm still around.
The Tories have fucked the economy, there is a black hole to fill, plus repairs needed for what they neglected to do whilst in office - about £40 billion is needed Labour say.
What do you expect Labour to do about it?
Well it could all be a massive lie and there is no blackhole and nothing needs repairing - but the NHS, the lack of policing, the fear of wars, the eroding of societies values and behaviour, suggests to me that it isn't a lie - things are falling apart, things need to be made better - somehow.
They aren't going to tax us hard for fun are they - they clearly need to do it otherwise why piss us all off?
Scoff and crow as much as you want about Labour and Harris - and you do - it won't make anything better for us all, we are already beyond the point of return to make anything much better for the planet - the best we can hope for is that somehow we delay the inevitable as long as we can in the hope that we eventually come to our senses before it is too late and make it less worse than it could have been.
The likes of Trump, Badenoch, Truss, Farage are simply lunatics and these lunatics are about to take over the world along with Putin, and Xi.
If that's what you want, then God help the rest of us.
86 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:41 pm
okocha
El Hadji Diouf
Thank goodness Reeves' budget represented a very sensible, grown-up response to the country's problems left by the previous shower. Looking at the bigger picture and our long-term prospects, we are finally on the right track after 14 years of mismanagement, corruption and lies.
Rishi's response sounded as if he was focusing on a totally different budget speech, but my abiding memory will be the expressions on the faces of Hunt, Kwarteng, Truss and co.
PS: did you spot the news earlier that the disastrous Gavin Williamson is to get a knighthood!! A perfect metaphor for all the Tory sins of their reign.
Rishi's response sounded as if he was focusing on a totally different budget speech, but my abiding memory will be the expressions on the faces of Hunt, Kwarteng, Truss and co.
PS: did you spot the news earlier that the disastrous Gavin Williamson is to get a knighthood!! A perfect metaphor for all the Tory sins of their reign.
87 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:22 pm
Whitesince63
El Hadji Diouf
Sensible and Grown-up, Ha ha ha hahaha ha ha ha ha ha ha, just brilliant. Just proves you can fool some of the people all of the time. Ha ha ha ha ha ha, just brilliant Oko.okocha wrote:Thank goodness Reeves' budget represented a very sensible, grown-up response to the country's problems left by the previous shower. Looking at the bigger picture and our long-term prospects, we are finally on the right track after 14 years of mismanagement, corruption and lies.
Rishi's response sounded as if he was focusing on a totally different budget speech, but my abiding memory will be the expressions on the faces of Hunt, Kwarteng, Truss and co.
PS: did you spot the news earlier that the disastrous Gavin Williamson is to get a knighthood!! A perfect metaphor for all the Tory sins of their reign.
88 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:44 pm
Whitesince63
El Hadji Diouf
What a naive view. The fact that Blair/Brown wasted an excellent financial inheritance, destroyed the fabric of the Middle East, broke the economy, opened the door to mass immigration, even writing it into law, accelerated the mad dash to net zero that has damaged this country’s economy more than any other then called for even longer lockdowns than the stupid ones applied by the Tory’s, eventually costing us half a trillion, none of these had any impact on where we are now. However incompetent and deceitful the Tory’s were and I wouldn’t begin to defend them for one minute, this crazy bunch will be many times worse. Today’s budget was just the first example of the lies and duplicity of this collection of idiots masquerading as serious politicians. Not one indication that any effective changes will be made to the NHS, just chuck more money at it, worse still let’s borrow it and saddle our kids with even more debt whilst at the same time crippling businesses with even higher taxes. What a bunch of clowns you all are if you believe this lot are an improvement.
89 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:29 am
Sluffy
Admin
63, simple question for you -
Why would anyone want to impose a staggering £40 billion pounds of taxation on people and businesses if it truly wasn't needed?
What could they possibly gain by that?
The only rational reason I can think of was that there WAS a £22 billion BLACK HOLE in the economy left by the outgoing government and that public services were so underfunded that they were at breaking point and required an immediate £18 billion spending on them now to stop the services (NHS in particular) collapsing completely.
Why don't you just switch of GB News and stay away from the social media that you view and just think for yourself why there was a need for this to be done?
Look at the bigger picture and not the political point scoring.
And if you switch off to everything and anything I say then this is what the international renowned Reuters News Agency reported after today's budget -
UK Labour budget spares markets from another 'Liz Truss moment'
- Labour's new budget brings mild relief to markets
- UK gilts yields up modestly, sterling, stocks rise
- Repeat of 2022 mini-budget fallout avoided - investors
LONDON, Oct 30 (Reuters) - UK markets were spared painful blows from the new Labour government's first budget on Wednesday, which announced 40 billion pounds of tax hikes to plug shortfalls but soothed jitters about public spending blowouts and debt market disorder.
As finance minister Rachel Reeves balanced big debt and investment increases with pledges for tough control of day-to-day spending, investors' fears of a potential repeat of then-prime minister Liz Truss' chaotic September 2022 mini-Budget eased.
Government borrowing costs measured by 10-year gilt yields touched their highest since May at around 4.38% , but the move was modest in comparison to the surge two years ago. Sterling rose , meanwhile, and the domestically-focused FTSE mid-250 index (.FTMC), opens new tab briefly jumped more than 1.5%.
"Investors feared a new Liz Truss moment, but in the end the announcements do not suggest an uncontrolled surge in debt," Edmond de Rothschild Asset Management portfolio manager Nabil Milali said.
Full article here -
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-labour-budget-spares-markets-another-liz-truss-moment-2024-10-30/
Why would anyone want to impose a staggering £40 billion pounds of taxation on people and businesses if it truly wasn't needed?
What could they possibly gain by that?
The only rational reason I can think of was that there WAS a £22 billion BLACK HOLE in the economy left by the outgoing government and that public services were so underfunded that they were at breaking point and required an immediate £18 billion spending on them now to stop the services (NHS in particular) collapsing completely.
Why don't you just switch of GB News and stay away from the social media that you view and just think for yourself why there was a need for this to be done?
Look at the bigger picture and not the political point scoring.
And if you switch off to everything and anything I say then this is what the international renowned Reuters News Agency reported after today's budget -
UK Labour budget spares markets from another 'Liz Truss moment'
- Labour's new budget brings mild relief to markets
- UK gilts yields up modestly, sterling, stocks rise
- Repeat of 2022 mini-budget fallout avoided - investors
LONDON, Oct 30 (Reuters) - UK markets were spared painful blows from the new Labour government's first budget on Wednesday, which announced 40 billion pounds of tax hikes to plug shortfalls but soothed jitters about public spending blowouts and debt market disorder.
As finance minister Rachel Reeves balanced big debt and investment increases with pledges for tough control of day-to-day spending, investors' fears of a potential repeat of then-prime minister Liz Truss' chaotic September 2022 mini-Budget eased.
Government borrowing costs measured by 10-year gilt yields touched their highest since May at around 4.38% , but the move was modest in comparison to the surge two years ago. Sterling rose , meanwhile, and the domestically-focused FTSE mid-250 index (.FTMC), opens new tab briefly jumped more than 1.5%.
"Investors feared a new Liz Truss moment, but in the end the announcements do not suggest an uncontrolled surge in debt," Edmond de Rothschild Asset Management portfolio manager Nabil Milali said.
Full article here -
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-labour-budget-spares-markets-another-liz-truss-moment-2024-10-30/
90 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:00 am
Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Whitesince63 wrote:What a naive view. The fact that Blair/Brown wasted an excellent financial inheritance, destroyed the fabric of the Middle East, broke the economy, opened the door to mass immigration, even writing it into law, accelerated the mad dash to net zero that has damaged this country’s economy more than any other then called for even longer lockdowns than the stupid ones applied by the Tory’s, eventually costing us half a trillion, none of these had any impact on where we are now. However incompetent and deceitful the Tory’s were and I wouldn’t begin to defend them for one minute, this crazy bunch will be many times worse. Today’s budget was just the first example of the lies and duplicity of this collection of idiots masquerading as serious politicians. Not one indication that any effective changes will be made to the NHS, just chuck more money at it, worse still let’s borrow it and saddle our kids with even more debt whilst at the same time crippling businesses with even higher taxes. What a bunch of clowns you all are if you believe this lot are an improvement.
91 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:28 am
Whitesince63
El Hadji Diouf
Yet again Sluffy you’re incorrect. The FTSE fell yesterday after the budget and lost around 0.8% and is again down over 0.5% this morning. The OBR report released yesterday clearly indicated a shortfall of no more than £9b less than half that indicated by Reeves. The BoE have already publicly admitted that they themselves were responsible for two thirds of the issues around Liz Trusses budget which you claim “Trashed the Market” and it’s clear to anyone with even half a brain that whilst a number of items in the budget were naive the fall out from it was not purely the budgets fault but other factors and vested interests.
We all know and accept our public services are in disarray but just throwing even more money at it will only deepen the problem and shafting the private companies to fund it is pure madness but exactly what you’d expect a socialist government to do. This governments going to be a disaster for this country and if you can’t see it then more fool you because you and the other myopic idiots who try and defend it are going to be the ones along with our kids and grand kids who will have to pay for it. Lois like we’re heading for another IMF moment.
We all know and accept our public services are in disarray but just throwing even more money at it will only deepen the problem and shafting the private companies to fund it is pure madness but exactly what you’d expect a socialist government to do. This governments going to be a disaster for this country and if you can’t see it then more fool you because you and the other myopic idiots who try and defend it are going to be the ones along with our kids and grand kids who will have to pay for it. Lois like we’re heading for another IMF moment.
92 Temp Thread Thu Oct 31, 2024 8:35 am
okocha
El Hadji Diouf
Whitesince63 wrote:
Sensible and Grown-up, Ha ha ha hahaha ha ha ha ha ha ha, just brilliant. Just proves you can fool some of the people all of the time. Ha ha ha ha ha ha, just brilliant Oko.
Ws63: ask yourself how the Tories could be so confident that Labour in power would tax the nation as they have done.
The answer, in case you're struggling, is that the Tories were the only ones who knew the truth about the actual amount in the black hole that they had created, leaving Labour with no choice.
PS: Just going to ask Sluffy if he thinks this whole conversation should be moved to a more appropriate thread and, if so, would kindly oblige.
93 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:42 am
karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Posts : 38149
Join date : 2012-08-04
63, what stupid lockdowns did the Blair/Brown era call for???? 
94 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:53 am
Whitesince63
El Hadji Diouf
Do you seriously need me to explain?karlypants wrote:63, what stupid lockdowns did the Blair/Brown era call for????
95 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:54 am
karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Posts : 38149
Join date : 2012-08-04
Whitesince63 wrote:Do you seriously need me to explain?karlypants wrote:63, what stupid lockdowns did the Blair/Brown era call for????
Yes. That is why I am asking!!!
My memory obviously needs jogging!
96 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:05 am
Sluffy
Admin
Whitesince63 wrote:Yet again Sluffy you’re incorrect. The FTSE fell yesterday after the budget and lost around 0.8% and is again down over 0.5% this morning. The OBR report released yesterday clearly indicated a shortfall of no more than £9b less than half that indicated by Reeves. The BoE have already publicly admitted that they themselves were responsible for two thirds of the issues around Liz Trusses budget which you claim “Trashed the Market” and it’s clear to anyone with even half a brain that whilst a number of items in the budget were naive the fall out from it was not purely the budgets fault but other factors and vested interests.
We all know and accept our public services are in disarray but just throwing even more money at it will only deepen the problem and shafting the private companies to fund it is pure madness but exactly what you’d expect a socialist government to do. This governments going to be a disaster for this country and if you can’t see it then more fool you because you and the other myopic idiots who try and defend it are going to be the ones along with our kids and grand kids who will have to pay for it. Lois like we’re heading for another IMF moment.
Actually I'm not wrong at all, as I never said anything about the budget itself (or Liz Truss's for that matter).
What I did say was to ask you a simple question - which you have gone out of your way not to answer - and posted up Reuters news of the market following the reporting of the budget.
I kept my personal views and opinions of the budget to myself.
In fact I don't have any views and opinions on it simply because I don't know what the best course of action for the country is to raise the £40 billion needed.
My point - which you WONT answer - is why would the Labour party put the country to the sword of raising £40 billion in tax revenues if it wasn't needed?
What benefit would it achieve them in doing so?
I can't see any - neither have I've read anyone else offering one.
The only logic I can find for Labour doing so, is that there WAS indeed a black hole of £22 billion in the economy left by the Tory government and that services such as the NHS was on the point of collapse as evidenced by the ever increasing waiting lists for those needing treatment.
So grow a pair and answer my question - Why did Labour put forward a budget raising tax of £40 billion if they did not need to (ie there was no black hole in the economy left by the Conservative government and public services weren't on the point of collapse) - and what benefit did they gain from doing so?
AND if you can't find an answer to it, then the fact must be that your beloved Conservative party, after 14 years of government, left the country broke (£22 billion black hole in the economy) and public services (the NHS) on the point of collapse.
Go on then, defend that.
97 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:30 am
Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Imagine Liz Truss giving her "expert" opinion on the budget 
Even Kwarteng is now saying that Labour are dealing with the mess made by the Tories.
Even Kwarteng is now saying that Labour are dealing with the mess made by the Tories.
98 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:54 am
Sluffy
Admin
Norpig wrote:Imagine Liz Truss giving her "expert" opinion on the budget
Even Kwarteng is now saying that Labour are dealing with the mess made by the Tories.
Opinion
By Kwasi Kwarteng
Kwasi Kwarteng: Being sacked was humiliating – now Reeves is cleaning up our mess
It was perhaps inevitable that increases in the tax burden would fall principally on businesses and capital
October 30, 2024 3:08 pm
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/kwasi-kwarteng-tories-honest-rachel-reeves-budget-3352020
99 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:05 pm
Sluffy
Admin
International Monetary Fund welcomes Reeves' 'sustainable' tax rises
published at 06:57
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has welcomed the measures announced by Chancellor Rachel Reeves in her Budget yesterday.
It's a rare move from the influential financial watchdog.
The IMF backed the increase in investment and spending on urgent public services pressures as well as "sustainable" tax rises.
"We support the envisaged reduction in the deficit over the medium term, including by sustainably raising revenue," an IMF spokesperson said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cp9zrg128get
Reeves’s £40bn tax rises will boost growth ‘sustainably’, says IMF
Rare intervention comes as Resolution Foundation says UK will remain ‘stagnation nation’ despite push to invest
The International Monetary Fund has welcomed the measures announced by Rachel Reeves in her first budget, saying her £40bn of tax rises would boost growth “sustainably”.
In a rare intervention, the Washington-based IMF backed her increase in investment and extra spending to ease the financial pressure on public services and boost growth.
A spokesperson for the fund said new budget rules showed the government was committed to bringing down the UK’s debts over the longer term.
“We support the envisaged reduction in the deficit over the medium term, including by sustainably raising revenue,” they said, adding that the IMF approved of the government’s “focus on boosting growth through a needed increase in public investment while addressing urgent pressures on public services”.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/31/reeves-tax-rises-will-boost-growth-sustainably-says-imf
published at 06:57
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has welcomed the measures announced by Chancellor Rachel Reeves in her Budget yesterday.
It's a rare move from the influential financial watchdog.
The IMF backed the increase in investment and spending on urgent public services pressures as well as "sustainable" tax rises.
"We support the envisaged reduction in the deficit over the medium term, including by sustainably raising revenue," an IMF spokesperson said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cp9zrg128get
Reeves’s £40bn tax rises will boost growth ‘sustainably’, says IMF
Rare intervention comes as Resolution Foundation says UK will remain ‘stagnation nation’ despite push to invest
The International Monetary Fund has welcomed the measures announced by Rachel Reeves in her first budget, saying her £40bn of tax rises would boost growth “sustainably”.
In a rare intervention, the Washington-based IMF backed her increase in investment and extra spending to ease the financial pressure on public services and boost growth.
A spokesperson for the fund said new budget rules showed the government was committed to bringing down the UK’s debts over the longer term.
“We support the envisaged reduction in the deficit over the medium term, including by sustainably raising revenue,” they said, adding that the IMF approved of the government’s “focus on boosting growth through a needed increase in public investment while addressing urgent pressures on public services”.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/31/reeves-tax-rises-will-boost-growth-sustainably-says-imf
100 Re: Who are you voting for in the General Election? Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:11 pm
Sluffy
Admin
karlypants wrote:Whitesince63 wrote:Do you seriously need me to explain?karlypants wrote:63, what stupid lockdowns did the Blair/Brown era call for????
Yes. That is why I am asking!!!
My memory obviously needs jogging!
There were no lockdowns under Blair/Brown.
W63 has probably seen some shit posted on the social media he follows and once again believed it and repeated it without even thinking.
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