Vagitarian Rights?

Well obviously there will be a big :O reveal somewhere to this clever story.

but purely on the spurious information you wrote it sounds like a straight child who was physiologically damaged by a rape, and is probably struggling with his sexuality because of that trauma.

how was he born? urm.

and yes, voilent trauma can change a person irreparably.

I haven't assumed anything, your race is largely irrelevant, my points are all well reasoned and it's my opinion that it's sad to see minority groups who are and were persecuted happy to partake in the persecution of other minority groups. It's just an observation, I'm against all persecution. We're all human.

Progress2k13.

Come on, keep this going, I am waiting to read the next bit. It's a nail biting debate.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:... especially sad that groups of people that have historically been persecuted, and treated like animals for no other reason than their skin wasn't "the right colour", are happy to treat others with the same contempt.

I must be missing something then. Was the landlord who refused the lesbians lodging, in the aforementioned group who has been persecuted because of the colour of his skin? I suspect that you are being a little bit vague to avoid making a point which can be used against you in this debate.

Let me ask potentially easier questions then. Is a man who consents to sex with another man therefore gay? Have you ever eaten dog meat? What does pain look like?

Your answers are determined by the standards set of the society you grew up in, your experiences and the knowledge you have accumulated over the years. If a man held a gun to your head and said you could either choose to let him have sex with you or take a bullet to the head, you could not be chastised for valuing your life over your posterior. It is abhorrent to me that anyone would eat a dog's flesh but I know in some parts of the world, they would be delighted to have an hour alone with my Labradors. Pain is something that you feel - you cannot know what another man feels in any circumstance they are in. Therefore, my point is simply this - people find themselves in situations sometimes that determines their behaviour and some people react differently to the same set of circumstances. Unless you are responsible for determining the morality of the world, how can you say your rules are right but mine are wrong? Your quoted statement shows that you assume that I am black, but when asked a direct question, you avoided a response. Let me hasten to add that I do not assume that my point of view is correct - I am merely debating. This is fun.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:I haven't assumed anything, your race is largely irrelevant, my points are all well reasoned and it's my opinion that it's sad to see minority groups who are and were persecuted happy to partake in the persecution of other minority groups.

Which minority group persecuted another minority group? I read the original story again and I seem to have missed this bit.

Here's some of what i was talking about that left a sour taste in my mouth.

Mark Jackson a top NBA coach, a black man, saying he would "pray" for Jason Collins (openly gay) and his family.

http://www.queerty.com/how-do-you-spell-hypocrisy-warriors-head-coach-m-a-r-k-j-a-c-k-s-o-n-20130430/

Chris Broussard an ESPN pundit for basketball, a black man, saying Jason Collins is "living in sin."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1623745-chris-broussard-believes-openly-gay-nba-center-jason-collins-is-living-in-sin

honestly, race is really a side issue, but it draws a parallel, it's just interesting to me how that circle is squared, i sort of just sat back and thought "huh, ok."

I would have thought after their mothers, fathers, grandfathers fought long and hard for equality they might see the fight of the gay and lesbian community in a different light. I'm glad we had people like suffragette's who fought for equal rights and figureheads like Rosa Parks and MLK fighting in the civil rights movement.

that was more just an observation than anything else, an interesting side note i often think, hmm about.

as for your other points i agree basically with all of it, but it really doesn't have a baring other than to say yes there are situations where you could be forced into gay sex and not be gay, i suggest thats just common sense, in desperation you could sell your body to men, but not be gay, I'm not really sure what more that adds to this discussion. The point about pain, yes you're right i can't feel another mans pain, ok, again not sure what that adds.

and as for the moral argument, hell, if you want to persecute someone and tell them they're wrong because they are attracted to the same sex, feel free, I'm not sure why you'd want to do that but it's your right, It's also my right to describe that behaviour as stone age.

Ok - you made reference to stories that were not related to our discussion without sharing those stories with me - naughty Hipster.

Morality is largely subjective. It is defined by each person or groups of persons based on their culture, upbringing and societal standards. I will defend with vigour, your right to describe the "persecution" of homosexuals as being "stone age" and please know that I do not condone or encourage persecution against any group for any reason - race, class, sexual preference or choice of football club. This does not mean that I do not have the right to disagree with and/or disapprove of the latter two if I so choose. You are suggesting that I want to or approve of persecution, but I have never suggested this. I do not believe in the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another group. This does not mean I have to approve of them either. The treatment meted out to black people over the past 400 years cannot be reasonably compared to telling someone that they "are living in sin" and "in need of prayer" or even refusing to rent them a house.

What makes one a homosexual? Is it engaging in homosexual behaviour or having emotional feelings for someone of the same sex? If you have emotional feelings for someone of the same sex but only engage in sexual activities with people of the opposite sex, are you straight or gay? I'd like to know what your views on those questions are. I suggest in closing, however, that homosexuality has many grey areas while those of race are unfortunately strictly black and white. .

I did make reference to the stories and it's very closely related to this discussion see post 77, so I've no idea what you mean by "naughty"

It's about people using their religion as an excuse to dish out homophobia and being treated with "respect" because of it.

If i went on a TV show and said "look mate that gay shit is wrong, don't bring one of them poofs near me" - I'd be roundly boo'd without question.

If i said "I'm a christian, therefore i think being gay is wrong and it's a sin" - no one would boo.

But it's common in religion "I'm right and you're wrong, I'm perfect and you're not"

"Hey if you were more like me, you'd go to heaven, but if you don't stop being gay you'll to hell. I'll pray for you though!"

arrogant judgmental nonsense.

and no I'm not comparing hundreds of years of mistreatment to two isolated statements, how you would glean that from what I've said i have no idea. I'm saying, that i find it interesting, confusing that members of a minority treated in a disgusting way can't draw a parallel to gays and lesbians fighting for equal rights as HUMANS. In fact they (and i mean the examples i posted above, but i've seen other examples) want to RESTRICT that effort. Sad.

You say you don't condone it, but correct me If I'm wrong you basically said these lesbians should just get over it. I'm sure many said that to women in the 1800's and to black and ethnic groups when they didn't fancy being slaves any more. I'm glad they didn't get over tbh.

Are you straight or gay if you have "feelings" for another man? if you mean in a friendship sense, I'm sure you know thats not homosexuality, It's not a grey area in any respect, it's defined by sexual yearning, and sexual attraction.

So if you're friend was in a car crash and you were emotionally devastated that makes you gay? Come on, lets be serious now.

Homophobia is homophobia no matter how you try and dress it up.

Keegan is obviously homophobic.

That's his choice though and we should all be entitled to make our own choices about things.

You made reference to comments made by Mark Jackson and Chris Broussard without sharing them first - that left me in the dark as to what you meant, which led to my asking you if you assumed my race. That's why I said you were naughty. Since I was not clear enough in the questions I posed, let me repeat with the appropriate adjustments.

What makes one a homosexual? Is it engaging in sexual activities with someone of the same gender or having a sexual attraction to someone of the same sex? If you have a sexual attraction to someone of the same sex but only engage in sexual activities with people of the opposite sex, are you straight or gay?

I think you know that is what I was asking before - but if I need to be specific, so be it.

relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex


relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex

Keegan wrote:You made reference to comments made by Mark Jackson and Chris Broussard without sharing them first - that left me in the dark as to what you meant, which led to my asking you if you assumed my race. That's why I said you were naughty. Since I was not clear enough in the questions I posed, let me repeat with the appropriate adjustments.

What makes one a homosexual? Is it engaging in sexual activities with someone of the same gender or having a sexual attraction to someone of the same sex? If you have a sexual attraction to someone of the same sex but only engage in sexual activities with people of the opposite sex, are you straight or gay?

I think you know that is what I was asking before - but if I need to be specific, so be it.

in the last bit do you mean people like Elton John and George Michael?

I don't know the specifics of the sex lives of those gentlemen.