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Yes, that was my point.
If you disagree thats fine.
If you disagree thats fine.
Should Freedman get the sack?
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Freedman
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Message [Page 14 of 22]
262 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:06
Guest
Guest
Well, if your point was really that the odds mean very little, you're either telling fibs or you're very naive......
263 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:12
Guest
Guest
carrs wrote:You think there was planning. Who did it Baldrick ?
If you want to know my opinion read the forum. I ain't repeating myself for those foolish enough to try and justify the dynamic duo keeping their jobs.
Where in that post did I try and justify them keeping their jobs?
I'd be absolutely amazed if everyone at the club spent all summer sat on their arse doing nothing, so if you're trying to claim that was the case some evidence would be nice as it's a pretty ridiculous claim.
But my opinion wasn't the point, I was asking you to give yours though as I had no idea what it was (god knows why you think I should). Is there actually anything to it other than the usual - dopey Dougie, LL's a pensioner, a petty insult etc?
264 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:15
Guest
Guest
Copper Dragon wrote:QPR 7/4 (6/1)
Reading 11/4 (8/1)
Bolton 11/4 (8/1)
Leicester 7/2 (11/1)
Nottingham Forest 7/2 (11/1)
Wigan 4/1 (12/1)
Watford 4/1 (12/1)
Brighton 5/1 (16/1)
Leeds 11/2 (16/1)
Ipswich 6/1 (18/1)
Blackburn 13/2 (20/1)
Burnley 16/1 (50/1)
Does anybody really think we have the 3rd best squad in this division though? That's the point.
No question we should be much higher in the league, but I disagree with the odds that we're the 3rd best side.
265 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:20
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
I was laughing at the "favourites" tag because we have a lot of players still trading on they've done in the past and it was widely assumed that we'd continue to throw money at the problem with expensive loans and panic January buys. The bookies and pundits completely failed to see the writing on the wall as they often do. I also think that our relationship with very media who hyped up the has-beens take great delight in setting us up for a fall.
I think you'd agree that anyone who has actually watched us play this season would find the favourites tag laughable too.
I think you'd agree that anyone who has actually watched us play this season would find the favourites tag laughable too.
266 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:23
Copper Dragon
Ivan Campo
bwfc1874 wrote:Copper Dragon wrote:QPR 7/4 (6/1)
Reading 11/4 (8/1)
Bolton 11/4 (8/1)
Leicester 7/2 (11/1)
Nottingham Forest 7/2 (11/1)
Wigan 4/1 (12/1)
Watford 4/1 (12/1)
Brighton 5/1 (16/1)
Leeds 11/2 (16/1)
Ipswich 6/1 (18/1)
Blackburn 13/2 (20/1)
Burnley 16/1 (50/1)
Does anybody really think we have the 3rd best squad in this division though? That's the point.
No question we should be much higher in the league, but I disagree with the odds that we're the 3rd best side.
It doesn't say that you are the third best side. It says that a month before a ball was kicked you were the third favourites for promotion.
You only have to look at the pre season predictions on the other board on this site, to see how many of your own fans viewed Bolton's chances, which would go along with the odds on display.
267 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:28
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
It says that the bookies and pundits are idiots.Copper Dragon wrote:bwfc1874 wrote:Copper Dragon wrote:QPR 7/4 (6/1)
Reading 11/4 (8/1)
Bolton 11/4 (8/1)
Leicester 7/2 (11/1)
Nottingham Forest 7/2 (11/1)
Wigan 4/1 (12/1)
Watford 4/1 (12/1)
Brighton 5/1 (16/1)
Leeds 11/2 (16/1)
Ipswich 6/1 (18/1)
Blackburn 13/2 (20/1)
Burnley 16/1 (50/1)
Does anybody really think we have the 3rd best squad in this division though? That's the point.
No question we should be much higher in the league, but I disagree with the odds that we're the 3rd best side.
It doesn't say that you are the third best side. It says that a month before a ball was kicked you were the third favourites for promotion.
You only have to look at the pre season predictions on the other board on this site, to see how many of your own fans viewed Bolton's chances, which would go along with the odds on display.
We went on a run at the end of last season on the back of loanees like Dawson who we couldn't afford to replace. Did they just miss that?
TBF they couldn't foresee the announcement of the huge debt, and probably didn't even consider the contracts that some players were on as factors that worked against the manager's ability to change things around, but they still can't be excused for not noticing that the players who helped us improve left apart from Spearing who has since gone down the pan.
268 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:30
carrs
David Lee
You do know when LL was born and what age that makes him. It is normal to call them pensioners. As for Doug anybody who has a record such as his with his team selections and post match comments truly deserves the title dopey.bwfc1874 wrote:carrs wrote:You think there was planning. Who did it Baldrick ?
If you want to know my opinion read the forum. I ain't repeating myself for those foolish enough to try and justify the dynamic duo keeping their jobs.
Where in that post did I try and justify them keeping their jobs?
I'd be absolutely amazed if everyone at the club spent all summer sat on their arse doing nothing, so if you're trying to claim that was the case some evidence would be nice as it's a pretty ridiculous claim.
But my opinion wasn't the point, I was asking you to give yours though as I had no idea what it was (god knows why you think I should). Is there actually anything to it other than the usual - dopey Dougie, LL's a pensioner, a petty insult etc?
Facts not insults you see.
You mentioned planning first so show us some evidence of planning by DF LL in preparation for a campaign to see us promoted.
269 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:31
Copper Dragon
Ivan Campo
What about 95% of the members (who did the predictions) of this site who put Bolton in the top six Wanderlust, are they idiots as well?
270 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:38
Guest
Guest
carrs wrote:You mentioned planning first so show us some evidence of planning by DF LL in preparation for a campaign to see us promoted.
You mentioned it first -
carrs wrote:Why don't you answer the question for your beloved dickhead Doug, what did he do over the summer and what has he done since.
Im not even sure what this is all about, you seem to have taken issue with me asking you what you think he did. I'll make sure not to ask you to expand on posts in future, you seem to be going round in circles to avoid doing it.
271 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:42
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Can I have a go at that?carrs wrote:You do know when LL was born and what age that makes him. It is normal to call them pensioners. As for Doug anybody who has a record such as his with his team selections and post match comments truly deserves the title dopey.bwfc1874 wrote:carrs wrote:You think there was planning. Who did it Baldrick ?
If you want to know my opinion read the forum. I ain't repeating myself for those foolish enough to try and justify the dynamic duo keeping their jobs.
Where in that post did I try and justify them keeping their jobs?
I'd be absolutely amazed if everyone at the club spent all summer sat on their arse doing nothing, so if you're trying to claim that was the case some evidence would be nice as it's a pretty ridiculous claim.
But my opinion wasn't the point, I was asking you to give yours though as I had no idea what it was (god knows why you think I should). Is there actually anything to it other than the usual - dopey Dougie, LL's a pensioner, a petty insult etc?
Facts not insults you see.
You mentioned planning first so show us some evidence of planning by DF LL in preparation for a campaign to see us promoted.
First they brought in a decent LB to replace Alonso - Tierney.
They bought a top quality premiership standard midfield general - Spearing
They offloaded Kevin Davies who had done nothing for months and the goals had dried up.
They brought in Beckford and Moritz to add a bit of quality.
They dumped 7 development players who were not good enough and have bought several better quality replacements resulting in an improvement in U21 results and a pipeline for the future. Odelusi and White were given a chance and Bolger made the bench.
They made a few decent loan signings and tried to get Dawson back.
They sold Ngog to free up some transfer cash.
Then they got fucked over by Gartside, leaving them with only one option - survive, get players back from injury and don't buy anyone until the has-beens contracts are up or youth players come through.
272 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:44
doffcocker
Ivan Campo
Sluffy wrote:As I've said, your opinion - I don't share it.
We all know one loan player was insrtumental in that promotion push last season 'as backed up' by how crap we were before he came (which resulted in Coyle finally being sacked) and how crap we've been since.
And that player can't even get into his own team's starting line up!
Without any doubt the best player we had lasr season was a West Brom RESERVE player - who completely outshone our susposedly 'serious promotion bid squad' left behind by Coyle.
I suggest then that West Brom must either have a fantastic first team squad or your assessment of the players left behind by Coyle is well wide of the mark.
(As a final note, wasn't Coyle's Wigan squad susposed to walk out of this division this season too?
I note his marquee signing flopped so badly that he has been sent out on loan and they are already TWENTYSIX points out of first place in the league!
So much for him leaving squads behind that can mount 'serious promotion bids'!).
It is strange that a player who was "the difference" between relegation battlers and promotion chasers now can't get into West Brom's team. Except he was far from the sole difference. The late run coincided with several contributing factors. The switch to a more positive formation and approach, the increased opportunities for younger, faster and basically better strikers like Sordell and Ngog at the expense of the "ninetynine year old Kevin Davies", the clear improvement in individual players such as Spearing, Pratley, Ngog, Alonso. I can see why people make the link straight back to Dawson, but it isn't accurate.
You can't seem to have this debate without coming out with all this "if you want to think Coyle was a genius, that's fine by me, Dave Whelan certainly didn't think he was" bollocks. I think Coyle was an idiot, no two ways about it. That doesn't mean we should be where we are now. Natasha is absolutely spot on here. There's plenty of managers in this league that have got injuries to compete with, an inflexible wage bill, a poorly balanced squad in general. Managers have been dealt shitter cards and not found themselves in a relegation battle.
273 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:44
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Copper Dragon wrote:What about 95% of the members (who did the predictions) of this site who put Bolton in the top six Wanderlust, are they idiots as well?
Can't remember a predictions thread like that Stan. If it was pre-season "hopes" I'd be in the 95%.
This is what I wrote pre-season:
"The tone/subtext of Dougie's interview and the BE article imply to me that we won't be doing anything in the transfer window - maybe one more in and possibly a few out- so could we get promoted with this squad +1?
There is a case for it - a rather spurious case but a case nonetheless:
- End of season form was much improved (but hardly dominant)
- New look back 4 (but we have yet to confirm Baptiste and we don't know how he and Tierney will shape up)
- More development players capable of competing for a place this season after a clear out and a couple of signings (but we'll need to see improvement and opportunities)
- One more signing (suspect DF is after Hall but can't be sure)
- Starting with fewer injuries (but the return of Mavies and the rehabilitation of Stuey are critical and so far Stuey isn't showing anything of the player we knew)
- Dougie's style and tactics more embedded in the team
If everything comes together and we don't offload the better players, we could be challengers but at this stage it looks like we'd be dependent on huge improvements all round the squad."
As it turned out, everything didn't come together - in fact our luck just got worse.
- Tierney was injured early doors and we've struggled to get a composed back four since
- More development players brought in but only a couple of appearances as sub so far this season
- Got Hall, but hasn't featured
- Injuries - FFS. Mavies just back but no sign of Holden
- Dougie's "style and tactics" - looking at it yesterday, they still haven't got it. Sure they're lining up as a 451 but don't seem to realise that having 5 in midfield isn't a licence to relax - they're supposed run forward, find space, create chances and close down when out of possession.
Importantly, the "huge improvements all round the squad" that I felt was absolutely necessary then hasn't happened and several of them have got worse, not better.
Never thought we had a chance unless all those criteria were met.
Last edited by wanderlust on Sun Feb 02 2014, 15:00; edited 1 time in total
274 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:51
carrs
David Lee
wanderlust wrote:Can I have a go at that?carrs wrote:You do know when LL was born and what age that makes him. It is normal to call them pensioners. As for Doug anybody who has a record such as his with his team selections and post match comments truly deserves the title dopey.bwfc1874 wrote:carrs wrote:You think there was planning. Who did it Baldrick ?
If you want to know my opinion read the forum. I ain't repeating myself for those foolish enough to try and justify the dynamic duo keeping their jobs.
Where in that post did I try and justify them keeping their jobs?
I'd be absolutely amazed if everyone at the club spent all summer sat on their arse doing nothing, so if you're trying to claim that was the case some evidence would be nice as it's a pretty ridiculous claim.
But my opinion wasn't the point, I was asking you to give yours though as I had no idea what it was (god knows why you think I should). Is there actually anything to it other than the usual - dopey Dougie, LL's a pensioner, a petty insult etc?
Facts not insults you see.
You mentioned planning first so show us some evidence of planning by DF LL in preparation for a campaign to see us promoted.
First they brought in a decent LB to replace Alonso - Tierney.
They bought a top quality premiership standard midfield general - Spearing
They offloaded Kevin Davies who had done nothing for months and the goals had dried up.
They brought in Beckford and Moritz to add a bit of quality.
They dumped 7 development players who were not good enough and have bought several better quality replacements resulting in an improvement in U21 results and a pipeline for the future. Odelusi and White were given a chance and Bolger made the bench.
They made a few decent loan signings and tried to get Dawson back.
They sold Ngog to free up some transfer cash.
Then they got fucked over by Gartside, leaving them with only one option - survive, get players back from injury and don't buy anyone until the has-beens contracts are up or youth players come through.
There you go.
Apart from they did know the score with finances before they started. No planning on what to do come match days ! Genius work by the duo doing all that and then forgetting about a football match. Never mind a relegation scrap is always good for getting the crowds in.
275 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:54
Guest
Guest
Forget all the Coyle stuff and what happened last season, let's consider the here and now.
Freedman sets the team up to try and contain the opposition (irrespective of who we're playing and whether or not we're at home or away), we play with a lone striker and no wingers.
The midfield is full of defensive-minded players who offer precious little going forward.
Freedman bemoans the fact that we aren't scoring enough, but whose fault is that?
It's his because he sets the team up and it's his system that's failing.
But he won't change, we're in 20th place and there's a real chance we may go down.
And it'll be his fault and that's why he should go now.
Freedman sets the team up to try and contain the opposition (irrespective of who we're playing and whether or not we're at home or away), we play with a lone striker and no wingers.
The midfield is full of defensive-minded players who offer precious little going forward.
Freedman bemoans the fact that we aren't scoring enough, but whose fault is that?
It's his because he sets the team up and it's his system that's failing.
But he won't change, we're in 20th place and there's a real chance we may go down.
And it'll be his fault and that's why he should go now.
276 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:55
Copper Dragon
Ivan Campo
wanderlust wrote:Copper Dragon wrote:What about 95% of the members (who did the predictions) of this site who put Bolton in the top six Wanderlust, are they idiots as well?
Can't remember a predictions thread like that Stan. If it was pre-season "hopes" I'd be in the 95%.
Hopes or not, odds are just the same as predictions, you have a choice who to back.
It's funny to see Sluffy's pick, when he blames a lot of it on Coil
..........[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
277 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:56
Guest
Guest
I thought we'd make the play offs this year, clearly not the case unfortunately. We just haven't got anything together this year. The good run last year was first based on tightening up on the back but that's completely capitulated with the losses of Dawson and Alonso, once the defence was sured up Dougie adopted a more positive approach knowing that we were capable of keeping clean sheets. Unfortunately this year has been one defensive disaster after another so he's been unable to match that game plan.
Failing to sort the defence is something I lambasted Coyle for and Dougie deserves similar criticism, unfortunately he hasn't got the same funding Coyle had to do it, so he's stuck with what we have for now. First step would be re-uniting Mills and Ream, the stats speak for themselves in this regard.
Failing to sort the defence is something I lambasted Coyle for and Dougie deserves similar criticism, unfortunately he hasn't got the same funding Coyle had to do it, so he's stuck with what we have for now. First step would be re-uniting Mills and Ream, the stats speak for themselves in this regard.
278 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 14:57
Guest
Guest
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]wanderlust wrote:Copper Dragon wrote:What about 95% of the members (who did the predictions) of this site who put Bolton in the top six Wanderlust, are they idiots as well?
Can't remember a predictions thread like that Stan. If it was pre-season "hopes" I'd be in the 95%.
279 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 15:04
wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Made me laugh again that!OneFinFreedman wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]wanderlust wrote:Copper Dragon wrote:What about 95% of the members (who did the predictions) of this site who put Bolton in the top six Wanderlust, are they idiots as well?
Can't remember a predictions thread like that Stan. If it was pre-season "hopes" I'd be in the 95%.
I've edited my earlier post (273) to include my pre-season thoughts. Presumably at that time I was considered as being anti-Dougie for not predicting our promotion.?
280 Re: Should Freedman get the sack? Sun Feb 02 2014, 15:07
Copper Dragon
Ivan Campo
Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing Wanderlust?
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