Leeds 1-5 Bolton

I don't believe you're 55 for a second, you need to calm down.

bwfc1874 wrote:

aaron_bwfc wrote:I said it earlier in the week that the system we have now has come from the players going to the manager and suggesting the current system, their is no way dougie and his 2 coaches have thought this system up.

Sorry Aaron, but what a load of complete bollocks. What possible evidence do you have to suggest that this formation was not from Dougie?

No evidence what so ever but just my opinion, but surely the players see what formations see what work in training and I refuse to believe they haven't said something to the management.

aaron_bwfc wrote:No evidence what so ever but just my opinion, but surely the players see what formations see what work in training and I refuse to believe they haven't said something to the management.

I don't get how you can believe something so certainly with no evidence.

In fairness the massive improvement in the side can't all be down to the change in formation, so I do think the players must be happier playing this system they're definitely working harder for it. But it is the same formation we played a lot in the second half of last season. It also looks to have been a conscious decision to bring in Juke and Mason so I'd say the evidence supports Dougie here.

Tigermin wrote:Diamond formation !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus H Christ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS 4-4-2 FFS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The little jock shite wont admit it though because it makes him look as though he has given in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Morning Tigermin, of course it's 4-4-2 mate. We all know it is and it's been called that for years, it's just 4-4-2 with a diamond midfield that's all. The late great Sir Bobby Robson called it that. So did Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Jack Charlton and even Jose Mourinho has referred to it as 4-4-2 wen playing that shape. In other words, men who are football managers that people generally would say know what they're talking about. 

So if Dougie WON'T say that then why are you surprised or annoyed? Did you seriously think he would EVER make a comment that suggests he knows what he's doing? Really?  

Aaron, while I am the first to say Dougie is a fool the one thing you can't say is he's weak. If anything he is TOO stubborn, holds his own course too strongly no matter what anyone else is saying even when EVREYONE else is saying the same thing. 

So I'm sorry but in my opinion IF the players went to the manager and tried to talk him into doing something he doesn't WANT to do they'd be better banging their heads against a brick wall. There is no way he'd allow the players to attempt to dictate ANYTHING to him. 

This formation will have come from Dougie not them and if he'd wanted to stick with 4-5-1 he'd have done it and opinions be damned.

It's not worth arguing about. All this 442 451 433 nonsense is at best a loose description of how they line up and has no bearing whatsoever on the manager's instructions to individual players.
If he tells wide players to push forward, suddenly 451 is 433 for example.
And Tigermin... if Dougie is responsible for what was allegedly 451 then surely he's responsible for what is allegedly 442? It's starting to come across as if you personally dislike Dougie, always handing out blame when it doesn't go well but never giving him credit when it does...which kind of goes against the argument you made when our play was littered with individual errors and you said the ultimately the manager is responsible....for everything.

As I said it's just my opinion, I can't even predict our results so chances are i'm way off the mark with this prediction aswell.   

Whoever picked it, it's certainly working at the moment and with mason and the juke upfront you have to say we look like we could score against anyone in this league.

I have a good feeling about this game, I think we'll win .

     

wanderlust wrote:It's not worth arguing about. All this 442 451 433 nonsense is at best a loose description of how they line up and has no bearing whatsoever on the manager's instructions to individual players.
If he tells wide players to push forward, suddenly 451 is 433 for example.
And Tigermin... if Dougie is responsible for what was allegedly 451 then surely he's responsible for what is allegedly 442? It's starting to come across as if you personally dislike Dougie, always handing out blame when it doesn't go well but never giving him credit when it does...which kind of goes against the argument you made when our play was littered with individual errors and you said the ultimately the manager is responsible....for everything.

Morning lusty, I agree about Tigermin, there's definitely an "I hate Dougie" slant to everything he posts BUT to be fair he's not the only one and it isn't entirely incomprehensible given the season we've had. 

I think most of us are a bit more reasonable than that, we give DF credit for what's happening right now just as we blamed him when things were going wrong. Ultimately the buck good or bad stops at his door. On balance I think he needs to go but since that's not going to happen I am hoping against hope that the last two games are the beginning of him learning from his many mistakes and progressing through the rest of this season and continuing to progress the team forward in next season rather than falling back. I don't believe he will, I don't think he's capable of it but I'm hoping he'll prove me wrong because I want the club to do well no matter who's at the helm. 

By the way, the way we line up is absolutely crucial mate, or do you think the manager says, "stand wherever you like" when he is issuing those individual instructions? He'll decide the formation BEFORE he tells individuals what he wants them to do within that formation and chosen tactics. At the moment we are playing a diamond 4-4-2 which keeps the midfied quite compact and narrow but does mean there's always a man close by to pass to if you have the ball or back you up if you're going into a challenge to win the ball and lose. A flat 4-4-2 has the advantage of width, a nice thing if you have speedy wingers who can get to the byline and provide accurate crosses for the forwards but it can leave players a bit isolated and leave wide channels for the opposition to play through if your centre midfielders let them. Dougie will have said something like "play the diamond and stay close together when they have the ball to block the channels and give you an easy pass when we do" which given our personnel is probably the best idea. 

He probably told Juke "your job is to hold the ball up and flick it on, use your strength and speed to create holes for Joe and the mids to exploit" and told Joe "your job is to get up forward and finish what Joe sets up for you". 

I hope this explains why I believe the formation is THE most vital thing to decide, he can't issue individual instructions until that's been done.

luckyPeterpiper wrote:

wanderlust wrote:It's not worth arguing about. All this 442 451 433 nonsense is at best a loose description of how they line up and has no bearing whatsoever on the manager's instructions to individual players.
If he tells wide players to push forward, suddenly 451 is 433 for example.
And Tigermin... if Dougie is responsible for what was allegedly 451 then surely he's responsible for what is allegedly 442? It's starting to come across as if you personally dislike Dougie, always handing out blame when it doesn't go well but never giving him credit when it does...which kind of goes against the argument you made when our play was littered with individual errors and you said the ultimately the manager is responsible....for everything.

Morning lusty, I agree about Tigermin, there's definitely an "I hate Dougie" slant to everything he posts BUT to be fair he's not the only one and it isn't entirely incomprehensible given the season we've had. 

I think most of us are a bit more reasonable than that, we give DF credit for what's happening right now just as we blamed him when things were going wrong. Ultimately the buck good or bad stops at his door. On balance I think he needs to go but since that's not going to happen I am hoping against hope that the last two games are the beginning of him learning from his many mistakes and progressing through the rest of this season and continuing to progress the team forward in next season rather than falling back. I don't believe he will, I don't think he's capable of it but I'm hoping he'll prove me wrong because I want the club to do well no matter who's at the helm. 

By the way, the way we line up is absolutely crucial mate, or do you think the manager says, "stand wherever you like" when he is issuing those individual instructions? He'll decide the formation BEFORE he tells individuals what he wants them to do within that formation and chosen tactics. At the moment we are playing a diamond 4-4-2 which keeps the midfied quite compact and narrow but does mean there's always a man close by to pass to if you have the ball or back you up if you're going into a challenge to win the ball and lose. A flat 4-4-2 has the advantage of width, a nice thing if you have speedy wingers who can get to the byline and provide accurate crosses for the forwards but it can leave players a bit isolated and leave wide channels for the opposition to play through if your centre midfielders let them. Dougie will have said something like "play the diamond and stay close together when they have the ball to block the channels and give you an easy pass when we do" which given our personnel is probably the best idea. 

He probably told Juke "your job is to hold the ball up and flick it on, use your strength and speed to create holes for Joe and the mids to exploit" and told Joe "your job is to get up forward and finish what Joe sets up for you". 

I hope this explains why I believe the formation is THE most vital thing to decide, he can't issue individual instructions until that's been done.

I'm just saying the "formation" relates to general positioning in the field whereas the manager's instructions have far more bearing on what actually happens and instructions can make a nonsense of what the formation is perceived to be. 451 can easily become 415 at times (which was what Dougie was hoping to achieve when Beckford was leading the line, but the midfielders couldn't get forward enough to make it happen, leaving him isolated) The numbers that the pundits spout mean very little in practice.

Scottjames30 wrote:I have a good feeling about this game

Me too. Think we will finally show our potential and outclass Leeds.

We'll lose.

Natasha Whittam wrote:We'll lose.

Maybe, but I feel more confident about going into these away games than I would have done 3 weeks ago.
For a club struggling at the wrong end of the table I'm surprised I think we actually have a chance of getting a point or even more at Leeds or Derby specially as Leeds have strengthened their team recently.

As long as we keep Ross McCormack quite we can win this before half time.

COYWM, lets move up that table, and show our PL quality .

Bogdan, Baptiste, Knight, Wheater, Ream, Spearing, Medo, Davies, Danns, Mason, Jutkiewicz

subs: Lonergan, Hutton, Hall, Eagles, Chung-Yong, Moritz, Trotter

Boggersbelief wrote:Bogdan, Baptiste, Knight, Wheater, Ream, Spearing, Medo, Davies, Danns, Mason, Jutkiewicz

subs: Lonergan, Hutton, Hall, Eagles, Chung-Yong, Moritz, Trotter

Sluffy wrote:I'm reliably informed that it's the same starting eleven from last week for the Leeds match - so Hutton will be on the bench.

  

Sluffy wrote:

Boggersbelief wrote:Bogdan, Baptiste, Knight, Wheater, Ream, Spearing, Medo, Davies, Danns, Mason, Jutkiewicz

subs: Lonergan, Hutton, Hall, Eagles, Chung-Yong, Moritz, Trotter

Sluffy wrote:I'm reliably informed that it's the same starting eleven from last week for the Leeds match - so Hutton will be on the bench.

  

Your mole was right Sluffy, what else does he know?

Chuffed to bits with the line-up.

I've got that happy Saturday feeling!!!

I feel sorry for Leeds.

We're going to demolish Leeds!