If we stay up this season

doffcocker wrote:Coyle certainly breathed life back into the club after it had been throttled for over two years with anti-football and a manager that was a nasty piece of work. The players were clearly lifted by it. Look at Sheffield Wednesday - several players there have come out since Dickwad got fired and basically said they feel like footballers again. Sound familiar?

Unfortunately, its all clearly gone stale now. It's obvious several players don't particularly care for or believe in Coyle anymore. Whatever league we're in next year, he'll have to reunite and lift the players, or it will have to be bye bye.

I agree entirely. Thats why if he isn't doing the business by the end of November we should start looking elsewhere, but I think he needs that one last chance because in my opinion due to the very good start he did have, he has been no where near the disaster that Megson was who never really looked like he would come good, and the fans + media actually like him.

Hopefully there will be more fight in the team next year, theres a few now who try hard, wheater and Reams blocking against QPR was fantastic, N'gog works hard, Reo-Coker does most of the time (although he sometimes looses concentration) and with Holden and Chungy back we should have a bit more passion in the team than we have had this year.

I think he will stay, but I hope that the lessons he's learned from all his 'positives' will be put to good use.

Again, for the people who want him out the door, who do you think could "take us forward" and where is that "forward" going to be?

top 10? top 6? maybe just year after year of 12-15th? And is any of this achievable without significant investment in the squad?

Can't see anything changing drastically, whether we stay up or go down. Look forward to yet another holding or 'building' season, hoping that we'll find at least 3 players we can use to meld the team into a half decent proposition, otherwise hanging on for dear life, regardless of the division we're in.

I am actually kidding when I say "Coyle Out!". He is a young manager still finding his feet at the top level and will make cock-ups on the way. I prefer the Manchester United/Everton model to the Chelsea version, where managers are allowed time to develop some level of continuity to the program and to make the team their own. Realistically, until Coyle has a team with no first team player that has not been brought in under his watch, Bolton cannot be classed as 'his team'. I appreciate the fact that there has to be a bottom line and I have no clue at this point what Coyle's is - but for now and all things being equal in the long term, I will grin, take it on the chin and say "Coyle in!"

The problem is Everton (forget utd) are a much much better club than we are, with a fantastic youth academy. The kind of talent they've produced and smart investment elsewhere has allowed them to be patient.

we're hovering over the panic button while desperately trying to cling to the patience notion.

This is true, Hipster - but there are signs this season that has not been present in years - that the academy is being paid real attention with a view to producing first-team players. Bringing Sammy Lee back is one such. Selling Ali and playing Bogdan in the first team suggests that we are preparing for life without Jussi which should see the rise of young goalkeepers Rob Lainton (who seems highly regarded - even after taking his Bentley out of the equation) and Jay Lynch who is now in the first-team picture as well. Long-term contracts to Michael O'Halloran, Jack Sampson, Josh Vela and Joe Riley means we are are becoming younger, hungrier and easier to instruct than veterans who think running around like headless chickens and not tackling early enough or properly (cough)zatnight(cough) is playing football. It is not going to be pretty for quite a bit of it, but I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel. (It is a hell of a long tunnel, though!)

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Again, for the people who want him out the door, who do you think could "take us forward" and where is that "forward" going to be?

top 10? top 6? maybe just year after year of 12-15th? And is any of this achievable without significant investment in the squad?

Short version.

A decent manager should be able to get the most out of the resources they have. This season Swansea, Norwich and indeed Newcastle have over achieved and Chelsea, Liverpool and Bolton under achieved - imo obviously.

I would imagine that many other managers would have been able to achieve more than what Coyle has managed this season with the players / money / fixtures available to him.

I dare say even Sammy Lee could!

As for taking us forward - anything other than a fight against relegation season is the best we can realistically hope for - maybe even an odd top ten finish at best.

We do not have the money to compete with even the likes of Stoke and Sunderland, let alone the 'big' clubs.

Is this what I want from football - Premier survival - no it isn't but that is what football as developed into.

If I wasn't a fan of nearly 50 years I would have walked away from the obscenity of the Premier League years ago - but I'm too old to change - I'm stuck with it.

No doubt Coyle is a nice bloke - but he isn't a good manager - the results prove that - I've no doubt if we had the money he would have been sacked months ago - hence the Eddie Davies comments via Stuart Hall.

If is contract is really up in the summer I think we will soon find ourselves with another manager in charge – if not it looks as though we are stuck with him for quite a while longer yet!

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Again, for the people who want him out the door, who do you think could "take us forward" and where is that "forward" going to be?

top 10? top 6? maybe just year after year of 12-15th? And is any of this achievable without significant investment in the squad?

Change the record, there are loads of managers out there who would do a better job than Coyle - it really would be difficult to do any worse.

Gus Poyet, Lee Clark, Brian McDermott, Dean Windass, Keith Hill, Sam Allardyce, Karl Robinson, Micky Adams & Chris Powell just off the top of my head.

Yeah ok, and then the next part of the question?

Sluffy wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:Again, for the people who want him out the door, who do you think could "take us forward" and where is that "forward" going to be?

top 10? top 6? maybe just year after year of 12-15th? And is any of this achievable without significant investment in the squad?

Short version.

A decent manager should be able to get the most out of the resources they have. This season Swansea, Norwich and indeed Newcastle have over achieved and Chelsea, Liverpool and Bolton under achieved - imo obviously.

I would imagine that many other managers would have been able to achieve more than what Coyle has managed this season with the players / money / fixtures available to him.

I dare say even Sammy Lee could!

Please god not Sammy Lee.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Change the record, there are loads of managers out there who would do a better job than Coyle - it really would be difficult to do any worse.

Gus Poyet, Lee Clark, Brian McDermott, Dean Windass, Keith Hill, Sam Allardyce, Karl Robinson, Micky Adams & Chris Powell just off the top of my head.

Gus Poyet - 2 years experience in the Championship = gamble.

Lee Clark - failed in 3 attempts to get Huddersfield out of league one and was sacked. Great CV that.

Brian McDermott - a few years as a non league manager in the 90s, took on as Chief Scout by Championship Reading and became manager in 2009. Which is where they still are.

Dean Windass - joint caretaker manager of Bradford City for a short period in 2003 and that's it. You're proper taking the piss.

Keith Hill - took over Rochdale in League Two and on the third attempt, got them promoted to League One. Joined Barnsley last year. Currently 17th in the Championship.

Sam Allardyce - simply won't happen. You might as well have added Jose Mourinho to your list.

Karl Robinson - less than 2 years experience as a manager in League One with MK Dons.

Micky Adams - not a terrible suggestion, at least he is an experienced manager. Took Leicester to the PL and then straight back down again. Some CV.

Chris Powell - less than a year's management experience, all in League One.

It's candidates like these we will end up with if Coyle goes, because we can't afford or in some cases, attract, a decent replacement. Lists of inexperienced and unsuccessful managers such as Natasha's are the single biggest argument for sticking with Coyle. Be careful what you wish for.

What happened to your claim that Coyle is no good because he wasn't a top player? Has that gone out of the window as a requirement for you now Nat?

If OC keeps us up then we should give him plenty of time as he will have managed a difficult transition (reducing the wage bill, lowering the average age of the squad etc) in very difficult circumstances (injuries to 2 of our most influential players etc) and still survived.
Some of his purchases suggest we could have a very exciting young team next season if they step up to the plate - Alonso, Sordell, Riley plus those like Mavies and Bogdan who have already shown they can do it and who knows who will come through the ranks? Throw Holden and Lee into that team and we could be getting somewhere.
If he keeps us in the Prem he will have earned the right to pursue his vision IMO. If he doesn't it would be a shame to get in someone else who might break that potentially good team up.

At a club like ours you have to take a chance on someone who may have failed elsewhere.

People who have succeeded everywhere they've been end up going to big clubs.

Whats Alan Irvine up to?

largehat wrote:

Gus Poyet - 2 years experience in the Championship = gamble.

Lee Clark - failed in 3 attempts to get Huddersfield out of league one and was sacked. Great CV that.

Brian McDermott - a few years as a non league manager in the 90s, took on as Chief Scout by Championship Reading and became manager in 2009. Which is where they still are.

Dean Windass - joint caretaker manager of Bradford City for a short period in 2003 and that's it. You're proper taking the piss.

Keith Hill - took over Rochdale in League Two and on the third attempt, got them promoted to League One. Joined Barnsley last year. Currently 17th in the Championship.

Sam Allardyce - simply won't happen. You might as well have added Jose Mourinho to your list.

Karl Robinson - less than 2 years experience as a manager in League One with MK Dons.

Micky Adams - not a terrible suggestion, at least he is an experienced manager. Took Leicester to the PL and then straight back down again. Some CV.

Chris Powell - less than a year's management experience, all in League One.

It's candidates like these we will end up with if Coyle goes, because we can't afford or in some cases, attract, a decent replacement. Lists of inexperienced and unsuccessful managers such as Natasha's are the single biggest argument for sticking with Coyle. Be careful what you wish for.

What happened to your claim that Coyle is no good because he wasn't a top player? Has that gone out of the window as a requirement for you now Nat?

Is this a joke? Any manager with Premier League experience with nothing but success on his CV isn't going to be an option for Bolton.

Therefore you can choose someone with Prem experience who has failed or go for a succesful lower league manager who is hungry to manage in the Premiership. I know which one I'd go for.

Ignoring the fact two of the choices on my list were jokes and you didn't spot them, if you added Coyle to that list would he appear any better than Poyet, Powell etc?

Any managerial appointment is a risk at any club, big or small. But I stand by my judgement that anyone could do better than Coyle.

wanderlust wrote:
Some of his purchases suggest we could have a very exciting young team next season if they step up to the plate - Alonso, Sordell, Riley plus those like Mavies and Bogdan who have already shown they can do it and who knows who will come through the ranks? Throw Holden and Lee into that team and we could be getting somewhere.

I swear, you see a very different game to me.

Say we stay up, do you think the pressure will be any different next season? Will Coyle suddenly start playing the likes of Sordell and Riley every week? Will he feck.

Will Coyle suddenly turn into a master tactician? Will he feck.

Will Coyle suddenly teach his team to defend? Will he feck.

If we stay up he'll offer new contracts to the likes of Knight and Gretar, Holden will get injured while Tweeting, and Lee will be a shadow of his former self.

A future under Coyle is depressing.

largehat wrote:
What happened to your claim that Coyle is no good because he wasn't a top player? Has that gone out of the window as a requirement for you now Nat?

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Is this a joke? Any manager with Premier League experience with nothing but success on his CV isn't going to be an option for Bolton.

Therefore you can choose someone with Prem experience who has failed or go for a succesful lower league manager who is hungry to manage in the Premiership. I know which one I'd go for.

Ignoring the fact two of the choices on my list were jokes and you didn't spot them, if you added Coyle to that list would he appear any better than Poyet, Powell etc?

Any managerial appointment is a risk at any club, big or small. But I stand by my judgement that anyone could do better than Coyle.

What happened to your claim that we needed a manager who was a success at the highest level as a player? You've not spotted my question.

Of course Coyle would appear better than the other names on that list. He was a success in Scotland. He took Burnley from the bottom half of the Championship into the PL. He kept us up in his first season with no money to spend. He kept us up in his second season with no money to spend. As I write we are on course to survive in his third season with no money to spend.

Your judgement is really poor. You're stuck in the mid 1990s. In the last six months you've claimed at different times we should have Graeme Souness, Paolo Di Canio and John McGinlay as manager. It's laughable. You just like to moan about Coyle and never have anything sensible to say.

largehat wrote:
Of course Coyle would appear better than the other names on that list. He was a success in Scotland.

Funniest post of the year so far.

Martin O Neill's CV is dominated by Scottish success.

I can't imagine anyone would have been turning him away.

How many managers in the last 10 years have managed in Scotland then gone onto success in England?