If we stay up this season

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:
Of course Coyle would appear better than the other names on that list. He was a success in Scotland.

Funniest post of the year so far.

It would be if
a) you hadn't edited it
b) there was anything remotely funny about a Scottish manager being successful in Scotland before coming to England. I suppose you think Man Utd shouldn't have appointed Ferguson.

You're a plank.

largehat wrote:

It would be if
a) you hadn't edited it
b) there was anything remotely funny about a Scottish manager being successful in Scotland before coming to England. I suppose you think Man Utd shouldn't have appointed Ferguson.

You're a plank.

I'll ask the question again, how many managers in the last 10 years have done well in Scotland and then come down to England and done the same?

Natasha Whittam wrote:

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

Not in terms of the "legend" tag but the effect was proclaimed when Coyle took over.

"he's brought the buzz back, he's a legend"

I don't even think his first home game sold out! lol.

Coyle isn't even close to being a legend, he wasn't even a regular.

well thats your opinion, but that term was banded about when he came back and the ground didn't even sell out.

remember this is a man who'd been considered a "god" at burnley.

why the fcuk would any Bolton fan, sentiment aside be keen for someone with absolutely no managerial experience to come in when were in the bottom 6 scrapping for every point.

the most ludicrous thing you've said since you claimed Alan Irvine had accepted the job.

largehat wrote:
What happened to your claim that Coyle is no good because he wasn't a top player? Has that gone out of the window as a requirement for you now Nat?

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Is this a joke? Any manager with Premier League experience with nothing but success on his CV isn't going to be an option for Bolton.

Therefore you can choose someone with Prem experience who has failed or go for a succesful lower league manager who is hungry to manage in the Premiership. I know which one I'd go for.

Ignoring the fact two of the choices on my list were jokes and you didn't spot them, if you added Coyle to that list would he appear any better than Poyet, Powell etc?

Any managerial appointment is a risk at any club, big or small. But I stand by my judgement that anyone could do better than Coyle.

I've included my question at the top for a third time, because you keep ignoring it.

Where did I say we have to get a successful PL manager? You've gone completely the other way and gone for a load of unproven nobodies.

If Coyle keeps us up this season (which the OP presupposed in the question we are discussing), he will have kept us up three seasons in a row - imagine if there was another available young manager with that on his CV - you would have them on your list.

So you don't "have to go for a PL experienced manager who has failed" when you already have a PL experienced manager who has succeeded. When will you understand?

Hipster_Nebula wrote:

well thats your opinion, but that term was banded about when he came back and the ground didn't even sell out.

remember this is a man who'd been considered a "god" at burnley.

why the fcuk would any Bolton fan, sentiment aside be keen for someone with absolutely no managerial experience to come in when were in the bottom 6 scrapping for every point.

the most ludicrous thing you've said since you claimed Alan Irvine had accepted the job.

I didn't say I wanted McGinlay as manager, I was just making the point virtually anyone could do a better job - especially someone who the Bolton crowd adore.

Some of you are just so fickle though. Before Saturday Coyle was a muppet and everyone wanted him out - now all of a sudden there's no one better out there.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

I'll ask the question again, how many managers in the last 10 years have done well in Scotland and then come down to England and done the same?

We're not discussing Scottish football are we? Why does it have to be in the last 10 years? There are currently 6 Scottish managers in the Premier League. Is this not enough to make the point that there is nothing wrong with having a manager with a background in Scottish football?

My argument has always been there's no one better out there.

well, there's no one out there that would come here.

largehat wrote:


Where did I say we have to get a successful PL manager? You've gone completely the other way and gone for a load of unproven nobodies.

If Coyle keeps us up this season (which the OP presupposed in the question we are discussing), he will have kept us up three seasons in a row - imagine if there was another available young manager with that on his CV - you would have them on your list.

So you don't "have to go for a PL experienced manager who has failed" when you already have a PL experienced manager who has succeeded. When will you understand?

We come from different worlds Largehat. Even if we stay up this season I don't see success as avoiding relegation three seasons on the trot. First season yes, but a good manager would then have built on that solid platform to improve the team and position - if anything we have gone backwards.

Megson could have done all this, we didn't need Coyle.

And don't pull the "lack of cash" card please, he's had a bit of money and wasted the majority of it.

You call my list of managers unproven nobodies - give me a list of proven Premier League managers that have had success and would come to Bolton.

largehat wrote:

We're not discussing Scottish football are we? Why does it have to be in the last 10 years? There are currently 6 Scottish managers in the Premier League. Is this not enough to make the point that there is nothing wrong with having a manager with a background in Scottish football?

Because Scottish football has been getting weaker every season for the last 10 years. You tried to suggest Coyle was a better manager than Clark, Poyet etc because he did ok in a sub-standard league. It doesn't make sense.

Hipster_Nebula wrote:the most ludicrous thing you've said since you claimed Alan Irvine had accepted the job.

He failed the medical.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

largehat wrote:

We're not discussing Scottish football are we? Why does it have to be in the last 10 years? There are currently 6 Scottish managers in the Premier League. Is this not enough to make the point that there is nothing wrong with having a manager with a background in Scottish football?

Because Scottish football has been getting weaker every season for the last 10 years. You tried to suggest Coyle was a better manager than Clark, Poyet etc because he did ok in a sub-standard league. It doesn't make sense.

I was wrong with 6 now I think it through.

20 clubs in the Premier League

McLeish, Kean, Coyle, Moyes, Ferguson, Lambert, Dalglish are all Scottish + Martin O'Neil who has managed in Scotland.

Given that Wolves and Chelsea have caretaker managers, that is half the bloody league.

And I only suggested that in your mind. You have a way of manipulating other people's posts to suit your argument. You tried it earler in this thread by truncating my post and trying to turn the discussion into one where I was some sort of ridiculous champion of Scottish football. We all know the SPL isn't to the same standard as the PL and it's a substandard league, but that didn't stop you nominating a shit load of league one managers in your shortlist, did it?

You should know by now that I see through this manipulative technique of yours every single time. It's a poor way to have a discussion.

My point was that Coyle was a success in Scotland, followed by Burnley, and that if he keeps us up this season, he will have been a success with us for 3 seasons in a row with no money to spend.

Why don't you just have an honest debate, it's OK to disagree with people and it's OK to admit you just want Coyle out without really knowing who you would replace him with at this stage. Fine. But most of your suggestions are clearly less experienced than that we already have.

largehat wrote:

Why don't you just have an honest debate, it's OK to disagree with people and it's OK to admit you just want Coyle out without really knowing who you would replace him with at this stage. Fine. But most of your suggestions are clearly less experienced than that we already have.

I am being honest. I stated ANYONE could do a better job than Coyle. All those managers I mentioned have potential to be good PL managers, of course they could be utter shite but that's always a risk with any new manager.

Owen Coyle is clueless, this season has been awful and I will never agree that guys like Gus Poyet and Brian McDermott wouldn't offer more to BWFC.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
We come from different worlds Largehat. Even if we stay up this season I don't see success as avoiding relegation three seasons on the trot. First season yes, but a good manager would then have built on that solid platform to improve the team and position - if anything we have gone backwards.

Megson could have done all this, we didn't need Coyle.

And don't pull the "lack of cash" card please, he's had a bit of money and wasted the majority of it.

You call my list of managers unproven nobodies - give me a list of proven Premier League managers that have had success and would come to Bolton.

Last season we got the semi finals of the FA Cup for only the second time in half a century and were in the top half for 95% of the season. Don't turn that into a relegation dogfight season, because it wasn't. At no point were we in danger of relegation.

This season has been a struggle but Coyle has been handicapped by crippling injuries and has done enough in his first two seasons whereby it would be very short-termist and reactionary to sack him for finishing 17th. Which is what you are - reactionary.

I don't need to give you a list of proven Premier League managers to take over in the Summer because I am not agitating for change like you are. The right man is already in the job. I don't want anyone else.

If Coyle leaves, ask me again who I want then. Until then, there isn't a vacancy - you already know this is my position.

largehat wrote:

Last season we got the semi finals of the FA Cup for only the second time in half a century and were in the top half for 95% of the season. Don't turn that into a relegation dogfight season, because it wasn't. At no point were we in danger of relegation.

This season has been a struggle but Coyle has been handicapped by crippling injuries and has done enough in his first two seasons whereby it would be very short-termist and reactionary to sack him for finishing 17th. Which is what you are - reactionary.

I don't need to give you a list of proven Premier League managers to take over in the Summer because I am not agitating for change like you are. The right man is already in the job. I don't want anyone else.

If Coyle leaves, ask me again who I want then. Until then, there isn't a vacancy - you already know this is my position.

And if we finish 20th? He's still the man for the job?

Natasha Whittam wrote:
Megson could have done all this, we didn't need Coyle.

And don't pull the "lack of cash" card please, he's had a bit of money and wasted the majority of it.

you can't honestly believe that!?

I can understand when you get angry at Coyles tactics sometimes, but Megson is/was terrible, especially if your going to keep saying about how important it is to get a crowd 'buzzing' !

The money Coyle has had compared to Megson is minuscule, as I point out in my first post on this topic. Before the sale of Cahill Coyle had spent a similar amount of money on bringing in EIGHT players as Megson did signing Elmander, one of the biggest flops ive ever seen.

Megson was horrific and we would be down if he hadn't gone.

If you think Coyle has done badly keeping a relegation side out of relegation for the last two years then how could you possibly think hes on the same level as a man who dropped a European cup team into the relegation battle?

Lofty_Love wrote:

you can't honestly believe that!?

I can understand when you get angry at Coyles tactics sometimes, but Megson is/was terrible, especially if your going to keep saying about how important it is to get a crowd 'buzzing' !

The money Coyle has had compared to Megson is minuscule, as I point out in my first post on this topic. Before the sale of Cahill Coyle had spent a similar amount of money on bringing in EIGHT players as Megson did signing Elmander, one of the biggest flops ive ever seen.

Megson was horrific and we would be down if he hadn't gone.

If you think Coyle has done badly keeping a relegation side out of relegation for the last two years then how could you possibly think hes on the same level as a man who dropped a European cup team into the relegation battle?

Megson was a rubbish manager, and wasted more cash than Coyle, Allardye and every other Bolton manager put together.

But replacing one rubbish manager with another isn't the answer. The warning signs were already there as Burnley dropped like a stone while Coyle was in charge.

But using Largehat's argument that Coyle has kept us up twice and might do it a third time - that's exactly the position Megson was in when he was sacked.

Natasha Whittam wrote:

And if we finish 20th? He's still the man for the job?

This is a discussion about what we do if we stay up.

I haven't made up my mind about what we should do if we finish 20th. I do know the club stuck with Colin Todd the last time we finished 20th and he took us straight back up as champions with about 98 points - you'll know all about that, Nat, it happened in the decade you're stuck in.

I would probably stick with Coyle on balance, but as I say, I am undecided, and it wasn't what we were discussing.

largehat wrote:
This is a discussion about what we do if we stay up.

I haven't made up my mind about what we should do if we finish 20th. I do know the club stuck with Colin Todd the last time we finished 20th and he took us straight back up as champions with about 98 points - you'll know all about that, Nat, it happened in the decade you're stuck in.

I would probably stick with Coyle on balance, but as I say, I am undecided, and it wasn't what we were discussing.

But regardless of where we finish, 17th or 20th, he's still the same manager with the same tactics. Either he's the right man or he isn't.

Despite all the crap you've written previously about him being the man for us, you say you might change your mind if we get relegated!

I think I win this round don't you.

I think its a little unfair to compare these three years to Megsons.

He inherited a worse squad than Megson.

Like Largehat said last year was not a struggle.

This year should have been better than it has, however given the injurys (which cannot be just swept aside by saying that everyone gets injurys, yes they do, but when they do they always suffer and this year we had far more injurys to our key players than most) we realisticly couldn't expect a massively successful campaign.

Ive said before that we should stay up, and I think we will. And Im happy sticking with Coyle.

If we are in the bottom 3 at the end of November I will feel differently, but up to now I don't think Coyle has done too bad a job.

Natasha Whittam wrote:
But regardless of where we finish, 17th or 20th, he's still the same manager with the same tactics. Either he's the right man or he isn't.

Despite all the crap you've written previously about him being the man for us, you say you might change your mind if we get relegated!

I think I win this round don't you.

You don't half cheer me up, Nat. You're funny. Like a clown. You make me laugh. You amuse me.

Nothing inherently wrong with saying "I haven't thought about it but I might change my mind, on balance, probably not." I haven't thought about it much because I am certain we won't finish 20th. That was your question, was it not? Relegation and finishing 20th are two slightly different things.

Unlike you, I don't claim to have a monopoly on being right. I could be wrong. Anything I write is just my opinion. I'm a layman. So are you. Neither of us are football people. But you're completely intransigent, I'm not.

If we pick up fewer than 7 points from our remaining games, several of which are very much in the 'winnable' category, when push comes to shove, I will be disappointed in Coyle.

If someone else comes along who I think could do a better job, and we appoint him, I'm not going to automatically continue saying "we should have stuck with Coyle". Coyle is an average manager with a lot of potential who has done a decent job so far and whose heart is in the club. There's a lot to be said for that combination and I very much doubt we would be able to attract or afford anyone better if we went down.

But hypothetically if we did go down in 20th place, and could attract someone better, then it's not inconceivable that not renewing Coyle's contract could be a good move, it's a results business at the end of the day and 20th would be a hard pill to swallow for anyone - Coyle included.