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Donald Trump for President of the USA
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Dunkels King
Leeds_Trotter
BoltonTillIDie
Growler
Soul Kitchen
NickFazer
King Bill
DEANO82
Cajunboy
Boggersbelief
Lard Lad
Fabians Right Peg
terenceanne
okocha
Bread2.0
xmiles
whatsgoingon
scottjames30
observer
wessy
luckyPeterpiper
Natasha Whittam
Chairmanda
Copper Dragon
Bollotom2014
karlypants
Bwfc1958
gloswhite
Hipster_Nebula
finlaymcdanger
Bolton Nuts
rammywhite
Norpig
Reebok Trotter
Sluffy
39 posters
Message [Page 15 of 50]
282 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 13:13
Sluffy
Admin
It's pretty simple really.
If you give everybody a single vote and have a society that divides itself in to an 'us' and 'them' society, where a fraction of the people have the bulk of the wealth, then sooner or later someone will harness the mismatch and get themselves elected (or voted to leave the EU).
In truth the bulk of western society's population may be well off compared to the rest of the world but in real terms they have seen their own wealth, opportunities and hopes, in their own country's greatly diminish over the last two or three decades.
Part of that reason is because we have become less insular and opened our boarders to world trade and immigration.
This is a good thing in general but a bad thing for those who lose from it.
Like it or not a majority of people have had enough of it and voted for 'change'.
This 'change' may be worse than what they had BUT they rather take that chance than carry on along a road that is taking them nowhere except to become poorer and more disenfranchised from those who are leading them down that route (and who of course are benefitting themselves and the social economic class they represent - which includes the likes of Bread, Wanderlust, myself and probably the majority of the rest of us on here).
We reap what we sow.
And as for 'making up frankly outrageous claims' that 'enough fucking idiots will back you' - well isn't that how things have always worked?
Take religion for instance - there is no God - science - the sheer scale of the universe - proves that - yet here we are today in the twenty-first century where people still martyr themselves and kill others because they are brainwashed into believing there is a heaven.
Take religion away from mankind and treat people equally and you will then start to get a more equal and fairer society where people will vote for the best for everybody - until then people will simply vote for what is the best for them - even if it means fucking everything up for the rest.
It's not going to happen though - too many people won't want to lose their control, power and influence.
If you give everybody a single vote and have a society that divides itself in to an 'us' and 'them' society, where a fraction of the people have the bulk of the wealth, then sooner or later someone will harness the mismatch and get themselves elected (or voted to leave the EU).
In truth the bulk of western society's population may be well off compared to the rest of the world but in real terms they have seen their own wealth, opportunities and hopes, in their own country's greatly diminish over the last two or three decades.
Part of that reason is because we have become less insular and opened our boarders to world trade and immigration.
This is a good thing in general but a bad thing for those who lose from it.
Like it or not a majority of people have had enough of it and voted for 'change'.
This 'change' may be worse than what they had BUT they rather take that chance than carry on along a road that is taking them nowhere except to become poorer and more disenfranchised from those who are leading them down that route (and who of course are benefitting themselves and the social economic class they represent - which includes the likes of Bread, Wanderlust, myself and probably the majority of the rest of us on here).
We reap what we sow.
And as for 'making up frankly outrageous claims' that 'enough fucking idiots will back you' - well isn't that how things have always worked?
Take religion for instance - there is no God - science - the sheer scale of the universe - proves that - yet here we are today in the twenty-first century where people still martyr themselves and kill others because they are brainwashed into believing there is a heaven.
Take religion away from mankind and treat people equally and you will then start to get a more equal and fairer society where people will vote for the best for everybody - until then people will simply vote for what is the best for them - even if it means fucking everything up for the rest.
It's not going to happen though - too many people won't want to lose their control, power and influence.
283 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 13:36
NickFazer
El Hadji Diouf
Brexit and the US elections are the direct consequences of the liberal concensus that has existed for the last 4 decades. Big business and the upper and upper middle class has done very well out of it, disproportionally so in fact and at the expense of the general population especially young people. Whilst there have been some disgraceful claims made during the referendum and the US election not many of the pro Brexit or pro Trump voters would fall into the category of extremists, despite Breads claims and most will have experienced the following over the last two decades especially
A fall in living standards, a growing divide between the richest and poorest in society, rising property prices [especially in the UK], zero or negative interest rates for savers, rising unemployment and rising immigration all at a time when public services where they exist are being cut back. The ones at the bottom suffer the most from these outcomes and they have had enough. If they are poorly educated, whose at fault for that? Have we not been subjected to government after government telling us how they are driving up standards and opening up opportunities for more people to go to higher education and university, dumbing down and charging them for the privilege is more like it.
The establishment has failed to listen to its citizens and change has to come and is coming, what chances now for Marine Le Penn in France or Alternative for Germany in their elections next year. So if they have been toppled by the ignorant or the racist then they have only themselves to blame because they have been directly responsible for creating the conditions for them to flourish in the first place. Even Jeremy Corbyn has grasped it FFS.
A fall in living standards, a growing divide between the richest and poorest in society, rising property prices [especially in the UK], zero or negative interest rates for savers, rising unemployment and rising immigration all at a time when public services where they exist are being cut back. The ones at the bottom suffer the most from these outcomes and they have had enough. If they are poorly educated, whose at fault for that? Have we not been subjected to government after government telling us how they are driving up standards and opening up opportunities for more people to go to higher education and university, dumbing down and charging them for the privilege is more like it.
The establishment has failed to listen to its citizens and change has to come and is coming, what chances now for Marine Le Penn in France or Alternative for Germany in their elections next year. So if they have been toppled by the ignorant or the racist then they have only themselves to blame because they have been directly responsible for creating the conditions for them to flourish in the first place. Even Jeremy Corbyn has grasped it FFS.
284 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 13:37
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:It's pretty simple really.
If you give everybody a single vote and have a society that divides itself in to an 'us' and 'them' society, where a fraction of the people have the bulk of the wealth, then sooner or later someone will harness the mismatch and get themselves elected (or voted to leave the EU).
In truth the bulk of western society's population may be well off compared to the rest of the world but in real terms they have seen their own wealth, opportunities and hopes, in their own country's greatly diminish over the last two or three decades.
Part of that reason is because we have become less insular and opened our boarders to world trade and immigration.
This is a good thing in general but a bad thing for those who lose from it.
Like it or not a majority of people have had enough of it and voted for 'change'.
This 'change' may be worse than what they had BUT they rather take that chance than carry on along a road that is taking them nowhere except to become poorer and more disenfranchised from those who are leading them down that route (and who of course are benefitting themselves and the social economic class they represent - which includes the likes of Bread, Wanderlust, myself and probably the majority of the rest of us on here).
We reap what we sow.
And as for 'making up frankly outrageous claims' that 'enough fucking idiots will back you' - well isn't that how things have always worked?
Take religion for instance - there is no God - science - the sheer scale of the universe - proves that - yet here we are today in the twenty-first century where people still martyr themselves and kill others because they are brainwashed into believing there is a heaven.
Take religion away from mankind and treat people equally and you will then start to get a more equal and fairer society where people will vote for the best for everybody - until then people will simply vote for what is the best for them - even if it means fucking everything up for the rest.
It's not going to happen though - too many people won't want to lose their control, power and influence.
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285 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 13:40
okocha
El Hadji Diouf
Seems that voting against the status quo and the establishment is catching, no matter what lies are used as the basis for change and no matter which country is involved.
We will miss the Obamas' dignity, articulacy, calm reason, decency and sheer class.
USA will now be on the receiving end of the exact opposite. Can Trump lead by example as a worthwhile role model? I doubt it.
I saw one US "expert" saying that Trump's key trait is that if he is attacked, he will retaliate even more forcefully. That augurs well, doesn't it?!!
One good thing, though, was that the result was as good as concluded by the time that 19 year-old ex Bolton Schoolboy, Haseeb Hameed started batting for England in India, the youngest opener ever to play for England in tests. Did pretty well too, establishing a 50+ opening partnership with the skipper.
We will miss the Obamas' dignity, articulacy, calm reason, decency and sheer class.
USA will now be on the receiving end of the exact opposite. Can Trump lead by example as a worthwhile role model? I doubt it.
I saw one US "expert" saying that Trump's key trait is that if he is attacked, he will retaliate even more forcefully. That augurs well, doesn't it?!!
One good thing, though, was that the result was as good as concluded by the time that 19 year-old ex Bolton Schoolboy, Haseeb Hameed started batting for England in India, the youngest opener ever to play for England in tests. Did pretty well too, establishing a 50+ opening partnership with the skipper.
286 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 13:43
Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
bwfc1874 wrote:Boggersbelief wrote:So far breadman has been wrong about Brexit and our new owners. Can't say I'm too worried about his hate for trump
Eh? How has anybody been proved right or wrong about Brexit? We haven't left yet!
Obviously pump prices don't affect you boggers, just wait till horse food price goes up, it'll be time to ditch the cart and walk?
288 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 13:49
terenceanne
El Hadji Diouf
Pundits on the tele are like weathermen ......consistently wrong. As always they didn't take any notice of the man in the street, just gave their own opinions. Late night comedians are ramping up for 4 years of great material ahead.
289 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:21
Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Who can take anything seriously what Corbyn ses? If we have an election soon and Labour get battered, he's stated he'll still remain in place.
Furthermore during Brexit campaign his silence was deafening. In short, a deluded, unelectable old twat!!
290 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:27
xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Sluffy wrote:It's pretty simple really.
If you give everybody a single vote and have a society that divides itself in to an 'us' and 'them' society, where a fraction of the people have the bulk of the wealth, then sooner or later someone will harness the mismatch and get themselves elected (or voted to leave the EU).
In truth the bulk of western society's population may be well off compared to the rest of the world but in real terms they have seen their own wealth, opportunities and hopes, in their own country's greatly diminish over the last two or three decades.
Part of that reason is because we have become less insular and opened our boarders to world trade and immigration.
This is a good thing in general but a bad thing for those who lose from it.
Like it or not a majority of people have had enough of it and voted for 'change'.
This 'change' may be worse than what they had BUT they rather take that chance than carry on along a road that is taking them nowhere except to become poorer and more disenfranchised from those who are leading them down that route (and who of course are benefitting themselves and the social economic class they represent - which includes the likes of Bread, Wanderlust, myself and probably the majority of the rest of us on here).
We reap what we sow.
And as for 'making up frankly outrageous claims' that 'enough fucking idiots will back you' - well isn't that how things have always worked?
Take religion for instance - there is no God - science - the sheer scale of the universe - proves that - yet here we are today in the twenty-first century where people still martyr themselves and kill others because they are brainwashed into believing there is a heaven.
Take religion away from mankind and treat people equally and you will then start to get a more equal and fairer society where people will vote for the best for everybody - until then people will simply vote for what is the best for them - even if it means fucking everything up for the rest.
It's not going to happen though - too many people won't want to lose their control, power and influence.
291 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:30
xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Soul Kitchen wrote:
Who can take anything seriously what Corbyn ses? If we have an election soon and Labour get battered, he's stated he'll still remain in place.
Furthermore during Brexit campaign his silence was deafening. In short, a deluded, unelectable old twat!!
Sadly all too true.
292 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:35
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Talking complete bollocks seems to have worked for Donald.
Jeremy can talk bollocks with the best of them Go JC.
Jeremy can talk bollocks with the best of them Go JC.
293 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:36
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:Take religion for instance - there is no God - science - the sheer scale of the universe - proves that - yet here we are today in the twenty-first century where people are brainwashed into believing there is a heaven.
No proof exists that there is no God.
When I'm laughing at you from heaven as you watch re-runs of Owen Coyle's relegation season in Hell, you'll regret this post.
294 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:41
xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Natasha Whittam wrote:Sluffy wrote:Take religion for instance - there is no God - science - the sheer scale of the universe - proves that - yet here we are today in the twenty-first century where people are brainwashed into believing there is a heaven.
No proof exists that there is no God.
When I'm laughing at you from heaven as you watch re-runs of Owen Coyle's relegation season in Hell, you'll regret this post.
Surely you mean no proof exists that there is a God.
295 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:45
Natasha Whittam
Nat Lofthouse
xmiles wrote:Surely you mean no proof exists that there is a God.
There's no proof either way, which is my point.
296 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:47
Lard Lad
Nicolas Anelka
Anyone seen Hillary yet?
297 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:49
Bread2.0
Andy Walker
Regarding the making of outrageous claims bit, whilst I fully agree that career politicians have always been "less than straight", what we've seen from Trump is something new.
For example:
"If you elect me, I will build a wall on the border and make Mexico pay for it!" he said (to much adoring whooping, cheering, cries of "U...S...A!!! U...S...A!!!" and all that bollocks.)
10 years ago, if a presidential candidate had said that, he'd have been laughed out of Washington because it was ridiculous and will never happen.
And he knows it.
I've heard a new phrase coined during all this - "Post-Truth Politics".
And it's spot on.
The advent of the social media age has changed things dramatically. If you say something on-line (however obviously untrue it is) a good deal of those reading it will take it as fact and use it to form their opinion.
So people like Trump no longer need to sneak in a few little lies amongst all the facts, they can resort to shouting enormous lies in the form of snappy soundbites which appeal to those in their fan base with an IQ less than 80.
And if you can smear your opponent sufficiently, the ones in their camp who are dithering can also be blagged into either (A) not voting at all or (B) actually voting for you.
And that's what's happened here - Just enough of the pond life fell for it to make a difference to the end result.
Same as happened in the Referendum.
So yes, politics has changed but it's not down to some belated awakening of the under-represented as it's being painted, rather it's far easier now for extremist charlatans with an agenda to make themselves seem legitimate.
And it's fucking dangerous.
For example:
"If you elect me, I will build a wall on the border and make Mexico pay for it!" he said (to much adoring whooping, cheering, cries of "U...S...A!!! U...S...A!!!" and all that bollocks.)
10 years ago, if a presidential candidate had said that, he'd have been laughed out of Washington because it was ridiculous and will never happen.
And he knows it.
I've heard a new phrase coined during all this - "Post-Truth Politics".
And it's spot on.
The advent of the social media age has changed things dramatically. If you say something on-line (however obviously untrue it is) a good deal of those reading it will take it as fact and use it to form their opinion.
So people like Trump no longer need to sneak in a few little lies amongst all the facts, they can resort to shouting enormous lies in the form of snappy soundbites which appeal to those in their fan base with an IQ less than 80.
And if you can smear your opponent sufficiently, the ones in their camp who are dithering can also be blagged into either (A) not voting at all or (B) actually voting for you.
And that's what's happened here - Just enough of the pond life fell for it to make a difference to the end result.
Same as happened in the Referendum.
So yes, politics has changed but it's not down to some belated awakening of the under-represented as it's being painted, rather it's far easier now for extremist charlatans with an agenda to make themselves seem legitimate.
And it's fucking dangerous.
Last edited by Bread2.0 on Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:50; edited 1 time in total
298 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:50
boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
I refuse to engage with a man who needs both hands to wipe his arse.Lard Lad wrote:Anyone seen Hillary yet?
299 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 14:55
Reebok Trotter
Nat Lofthouse
Sluffy wrote:It's pretty simple really.
If you give everybody a single vote and have a society that divides itself in to an 'us' and 'them' society, where a fraction of the people have the bulk of the wealth, then sooner or later someone will harness the mismatch and get themselves elected (or voted to leave the EU).
In truth the bulk of western society's population may be well off compared to the rest of the world but in real terms they have seen their own wealth, opportunities and hopes, in their own country's greatly diminish over the last two or three decades.
Part of that reason is because we have become less insular and opened our boarders to world trade and immigration.
This is a good thing in general but a bad thing for those who lose from it.
Like it or not a majority of people have had enough of it and voted for 'change'.
This 'change' may be worse than what they had BUT they rather take that chance than carry on along a road that is taking them nowhere except to become poorer and more disenfranchised from those who are leading them down that route (and who of course are benefitting themselves and the social economic class they represent - which includes the likes of Bread, Wanderlust, myself and probably the majority of the rest of us on here).
We reap what we sow.
And as for 'making up frankly outrageous claims' that 'enough fucking idiots will back you' - well isn't that how things have always worked?
Take religion for instance - there is no God - science - the sheer scale of the universe - proves that - yet here we are today in the twenty-first century where people still martyr themselves and kill others because they are brainwashed into believing there is a heaven.
Take religion away from mankind and treat people equally and you will then start to get a more equal and fairer society where people will vote for the best for everybody - until then people will simply vote for what is the best for them - even if it means fucking everything up for the rest.
It's not going to happen though - too many people won't want to lose their control, power and influence.
Nailed it for me.
300 Re: Donald Trump for President of the USA Wed Nov 09 2016, 15:07
Lard Lad
Nicolas Anelka
That sounds interesting.boltonbonce wrote:I refuse to engage with a man who needs both hands to wipe his arse.Lard Lad wrote:Anyone seen Hillary yet?
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