Donald Trump for President of the USA

Boggersbelief wrote:

okocha wrote:

Boggersbelief wrote:TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!

Ah, such sage words, cleverly referencing that great intellectual  kiddies' favourite, "Nellie The Elephant"! 

Off she went with a trumpety-trump


Trump, Trump, Trump

Why do you read kiddies books?

Sluffy wrote:


The massive point that most people on here can't seem to grasp is that Brexit didn't win because it was a protest vote against immigration but a REJECTION of the way the country has been governed under EU law and policies, that for many people have seen their living standards and prospects diminish.

Click on the link below and see for yourselves how Brexit won the vote across the nation.

For example polling districts such as Gloucester, Crawley, Allerdale, East Northamptonshire, Lichfield, Christchurch, Purbeck, Selby, Herefordshire, Plymouth, Spelthorne, Amber Valley, South Derbyshire, West Somerset, Sedgemore, West Lindsey, Havant and even the Isle of Wight (just to name a few) had a LARGER leave percentage vote than even Bolton did!

The above places are not known to be anti-immigration hot spots and yet they voted by a wider margin to leave than the likes of Bolton, Luton, Hillingdon, Blackburn, Solihull, Slough, Bradford, Sheffield, Nottingham and Birmingham!

Places like Leeds, Hounslow and Leicester even voted to remain!

Even Manchester and Trafford voted to remain yet High Peak, Cheshire East, Cheshire West and Chester voted Brexit!!!

Yes immigration was a big talking point but despite how some people want to pin the Brexit vote on crayon munching racist the reality was that a vast amount of normal people simply voted against continuing in the EU because they saw how the last thirty odd years had seen their living standards diminish and their hopes for their children's future become less promising.

Here are the facts - judge for yourself -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

Sluffy wrote:

The massive point that most people on here can't seem to grasp is that Brexit didn't win because it was a protest vote against immigration but a REJECTION of the way the country has been governed under EU law and policies, that for many people have seen their living standards and prospects diminish.

Yes immigration was a big talking point but despite how some people want to pin the Brexit vote on crayon munching racist the reality was that a vast amount of normal people simply voted against continuing in the EU because they saw how the last thirty odd years had seen their living standards diminish and their hopes for their children's future become less promising.

Here are the facts - judge for yourself -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

okocha wrote:

Boggersbelief wrote:

okocha wrote:

Boggersbelief wrote:TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!

Ah, such sage words, cleverly referencing that great intellectual  kiddies' favourite, "Nellie The Elephant"! 

Off she went with a trumpety-trump


Trump, Trump, Trump

Why do you read kiddies books?

It was read to me at infants' school. It's YOU that used the words, but I presume you lifted them from the song, since the book was probably pitched beyond your reading level.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjv3dSM7bnQAhWFJsAKHc6pDl8QtwIIHDAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_a-m3pH9Dr8&usg=AFQjCNGDU7p3iYO7Lybbp6NC2urvzfbqRA&sig2=KU2VCdq37U2-7xfn0tatdA

Bread2.0 wrote:

Sluffy wrote:


The massive point that most people on here can't seem to grasp is that Brexit didn't win because it was a protest vote against immigration but a REJECTION of the way the country has been governed under EU law and policies, that for many people have seen their living standards and prospects diminish.

Click on the link below and see for yourselves how Brexit won the vote across the nation.

For example polling districts such as Gloucester, Crawley, Allerdale, East Northamptonshire, Lichfield, Christchurch, Purbeck, Selby, Herefordshire, Plymouth, Spelthorne, Amber Valley, South Derbyshire, West Somerset, Sedgemore, West Lindsey, Havant and even the Isle of Wight (just to name a few) had a LARGER leave percentage vote than even Bolton did!

The above places are not known to be anti-immigration hot spots and yet they voted by a wider margin to leave than the likes of Bolton, Luton, Hillingdon, Blackburn, Solihull, Slough, Bradford, Sheffield, Nottingham and Birmingham!

Places like Leeds, Hounslow and Leicester even voted to remain!

Even Manchester and Trafford voted to remain yet High Peak, Cheshire East, Cheshire West and Chester voted Brexit!!!

Yes immigration was a big talking point but despite how some people want to pin the Brexit vote on crayon munching racist the reality was that a vast amount of normal people simply voted against continuing in the EU because they saw how the last thirty odd years had seen their living standards diminish and their hopes for their children's future become less promising.

Here are the facts - judge for yourself -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

So, if I've understood your argument correctly....

...you're saying that the fact that areas traditionally known to be "anti-immigration hotspots" voted to leave in smaller numbers than areas which aren't, proves that this wasn't about immigration?

What are these "anti-immigration hotspots" full of, just out of interest?

Foreigners and Muslims, perhaps? ie, people who wouldn't be voting to leave because of a narrow-minded, xenophobic agenda?

And you're also making a sweeping generalisation about the reasons people living in non"anti-immigration hotspots" chose to vote leave.

Could it be that they were scared into voting to stop foreigners coming over here by the right wing press and Farage's bullshit and thought "I don't want my town turning into Bradford or Blackburn! I'm voting Leave before they let any more in!"

xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:
When I start my Natasha forum you will be banned before you join.

Delusional on so many levels.

Still, I suppose that's one way to  maintain the denial.

To be honest I think you are the one in denial Lusty.

In general terms the young of the two respective country's voted for 'Remain' and 'Clinton' yet as we know they both lost.

So an awful lot of people who have experienced many previous elections - and broken electoral promises - voted against.

I certainly don't think vast numbers of them actually really believed all (or even most) of what either side said during the elections - they didn't vote for Brexit because they were racist, nor voted for Trump because they really believed he would build a wall - they voted for them because they wanted a change from the way they have been going for the last twenty or thirty years.

For them, they have seen their 'world's' get worse, their prospects (and those of their children) decline and can't see anyway by going the way they have, that things will ever improve.

I think both France and Germany current political leaderships will both face a similar wave of discontent from the electorate the next time they go to the country - not because they are doing a bad job or are going in the wrong direction - but because many, many normal folk have seen things get gradually worse for them and their children and don't want to go down that road anymore.

You can rationalise Brexit and Trump any way you want but the bottom line to most people is that the EU and Washington wasn't benefiting them in their day to day perception and a change - any change - was better for them than carrying on the way they were.

In football terms the Cameron's, Clinton's and many other current traditional western leaders - seem to have lost the dressing room.

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:
When I start my Natasha forum you will be banned before you join.

Delusional on so many levels.

Still, I suppose that's one way to  maintain the denial.

To be honest I think you are the one in denial Lusty.

In general terms the young of the two respective country's voted for 'Remain' and 'Clinton' yet as we know they both lost.

So an awful lot of people who have experienced many previous elections - and broken electoral promises - voted against.

I certainly don't think vast numbers of them actually really believed all (or even most) of what either side said during the elections - they didn't vote for Brexit because they were racist, nor voted for Trump because they really believed he would build a wall - they voted for them because they wanted a change from the way they have been going for the last twenty or thirty years.

For them, they have seen their 'world's' get worse, their prospects (and those of their children) decline and can't see anyway by going the way they have, that things will ever improve.

I think both France and Germany current political leaderships will both face a similar wave of discontent from the electorate the next time they go to the country - not because they are doing a bad job or are going in the wrong direction - but because many, many normal folk have seen things get gradually worse for them and their children and don't want to go down that road anymore.

You can rationalise Brexit and Trump any way you want but the bottom line to most people is that the EU and Washington wasn't benefiting them in their day to day perception and a change - any change - was better for them than carrying on the way they were.

In football terms the Cameron's, Clinton's and many other current traditional western leaders - seem to have lost the dressing room.

It's interesting that people who vote for Leave/Trump consistently imply that anyone who is genuinely concerned about what the future holds as a result of those decisions is a bad loser.
The world didn't end when we voted to leave the EU and neither did we lose the right to comment on politics or the economy. We commented on them before the referendum and will continue to do so if we wish.
I suppose calling someone a bad loser is a cheap shot to deflect attention away from the debate.

Ironically, it's the people who voted for change who are the most scared of change and the least accepting of the new reality - it's like they don't want to know what they've actually voted for. Lord forfend that they may have actually made a mistake as my neighbour suggested he might have when May told the CBI this morning that her great plan for economic recovery was to back Science and Innovation - which as we all know was Tony Blair's great plan too. The f***** was apopleptic when he realised that would involve opening Britain's doors to attract even more immigrants! Oh how we laughed.

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:
When I start my Natasha forum you will be banned before you join.

Delusional on so many levels.

Still, I suppose that's one way to  maintain the denial.

To be honest I think you are the one in denial Lusty.

In general terms the young of the two respective country's voted for 'Remain' and 'Clinton' yet as we know they both lost.

So an awful lot of people who have experienced many previous elections - and broken electoral promises - voted against.

I certainly don't think vast numbers of them actually really believed all (or even most) of what either side said during the elections - they didn't vote for Brexit because they were racist, nor voted for Trump because they really believed he would build a wall - they voted for them because they wanted a change from the way they have been going for the last twenty or thirty years.

For them, they have seen their 'world's' get worse, their prospects (and those of their children) decline and can't see anyway by going the way they have, that things will ever improve.

I think both France and Germany current political leaderships will both face a similar wave of discontent from the electorate the next time they go to the country - not because they are doing a bad job or are going in the wrong direction - but because many, many normal folk have seen things get gradually worse for them and their children and don't want to go down that road anymore.

You can rationalise Brexit and Trump any way you want but the bottom line to most people is that the EU and Washington wasn't benefiting them in their day to day perception and a change - any change - was better for them than carrying on the way they were.

In football terms the Cameron's, Clinton's and many other current traditional western leaders - seem to have lost the dressing room.

It's interesting that people who vote for Leave/Trump consistently imply that anyone who is genuinely concerned about what the future holds as a result of those decisions is a bad loser.
The world didn't end when we voted to leave the EU and neither did we lose the right to comment on politics or the economy. We commented on them before the referendum and will continue to do so if we wish.
I suppose calling someone a bad loser is a cheap shot to deflect attention away from the debate.

Ironically, it's the people who voted for change who are the most scared of change and the least accepting of the new reality - it's like they don't want to know what they've actually voted for. Lord forfend that they may have actually made a mistake as my neighbour suggested he might have when May told the CBI this morning that her great plan for economic recovery was to back Science and Innovation - which as we all know was Tony Blair's great plan too. The f***** was apopleptic when he realised that would involve opening Britain's doors to attract even more immigrants! Oh how we laughed.

Where do I say or imply that you are a bad loser?

Or are you yet again seeing things that simply are not there!

Sluffy wrote:

xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

boltonbonce wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

xmiles wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:
When I start my Natasha forum you will be banned before you join.

Delusional on so many levels.

Still, I suppose that's one way to  maintain the denial.

To be honest I think you are the one in denial Lusty.

In general terms the young of the two respective country's voted for 'Remain' and 'Clinton' yet as we know they both lost.

So an awful lot of people who have experienced many previous elections - and broken electoral promises - voted against.

I certainly don't think vast numbers of them actually really believed all (or even most) of what either side said during the elections - they didn't vote for Brexit because they were racist, nor voted for Trump because they really believed he would build a wall - they voted for them because they wanted a change from the way they have been going for the last twenty or thirty years.

For them, they have seen their 'world's' get worse, their prospects (and those of their children) decline and can't see anyway by going the way they have, that things will ever improve.

I think both France and Germany current political leaderships will both face a similar wave of discontent from the electorate the next time they go to the country - not because they are doing a bad job or are going in the wrong direction - but because many, many normal folk have seen things get gradually worse for them and their children and don't want to go down that road anymore.

You can rationalise Brexit and Trump any way you want but the bottom line to most people is that the EU and Washington wasn't benefiting them in their day to day perception and a change - any change - was better for them than carrying on the way they were.

In football terms the Cameron's, Clinton's and many other current traditional western leaders - seem to have lost the dressing room.

It's interesting that people who vote for Leave/Trump consistently imply that anyone who is genuinely concerned about what the future holds as a result of those decisions is a bad loser.
The world didn't end when we voted to leave the EU and neither did we lose the right to comment on politics or the economy. We commented on them before the referendum and will continue to do so if we wish.
I suppose calling someone a bad loser is a cheap shot to deflect attention away from the debate.

Ironically, it's the people who voted for change who are the most scared of change and the least accepting of the new reality - it's like they don't want to know what they've actually voted for. Lord forfend that they may have actually made a mistake as my neighbour suggested he might have when May told the CBI this morning that her great plan for economic recovery was to back Science and Innovation - which as we all know was Tony Blair's great plan too. The f***** was apopleptic when he realised that would involve opening Britain's doors to attract even more immigrants! Oh how we laughed.

Where do I say or imply that you are a bad loser?

Or are you yet again seeing things that simply are not there!

Sorry Sluffy -  hadn't realised that you are "people who voted for Leave/Trump". 
I should have written "Sluffy consistently implies" to avoid any confusion - or seeing things that simply aren't there.

Sluffy wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

This is from the same company who told us that nearly two-thirds of voters would vote Remain!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/26/two-thirds-voters-think-uk-will-remain-in-eu-ashcroft-poll

Hardly on the ball were they - or any other pollster come to that!

Recent polling predictions -

General Election - no party having overall majority - Wrong.

Britain will vote Remain - Wrong.

Clinton will beat Trump - Wrong.

Sluffy wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

This is from the same company who told us that nearly two-thirds of voters would vote Remain!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/26/two-thirds-voters-think-uk-will-remain-in-eu-ashcroft-poll

Hardly on the ball were they - or any other pollster come to that!

Recent polling predictions -

General Election - no party having overall majority - Wrong.

Britain will vote Remain - Wrong.

Clinton will beat Trump - Wrong.

xmiles wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

xmiles wrote:

Sluffy wrote:

xmiles wrote:
I can't agree with your analysis sluffy and yes I did look at the link (nice graphics). The paradox is that dislike and fear of immigrants is not linked to the numbers of immigrants living in a location. So areas with very few immigrants can still be rabidly anti immigrant and areas with large immigrant populations like London can generally be very tolerant.

So affluent areas of the country populated with well educated electorates decided to forgo the certainty and financial benefits of remaining in the EU to vote against immigration - which does not largely effect them anyway because very few immigrants (or many of the rest of us for that matter) can afford to live in such areas in the first place!

I think not.

According to this poll "One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” It was the main reason apart from "taking back control" for people voting brexit.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjerJD4g7rQAhWeOsAKHdpnDtkQFggpMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Flordashcroftpolls.com%2F2016%2F06%2Fhow-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why%2F&usg=AFQjCNG0We5CZeCFGr_mfl8reRw_ZJ26wQ&sig2=PhwF4Gu17ZJJCWI51e9iOw

This is from the same company who told us that nearly two-thirds of voters would vote Remain!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/26/two-thirds-voters-think-uk-will-remain-in-eu-ashcroft-poll

Hardly on the ball were they - or any other pollster come to that!

Recent polling predictions -

General Election - no party having overall majority - Wrong.

Britain will vote Remain - Wrong.

Clinton will beat Trump - Wrong.

There is a big difference between asking "12,369 people after they had voted ... who voted for which outcome, and what lay behind their decision" and asking 5000 people to guess the outcome of a referendum in a month's time. The poll you quote was not asking people how they would vote but what they thought the result would be, so there is no evidence whatsoever that that poll was inaccurate!

There is plenty of evidence that anti immigrant sentiment was a big factor in the brexit vote.