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Scores dead in Paris attacks

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Natasha Whittam
Michael Bolton
Mr Magoo
rammywhite
bwfc71
wanderlust
okocha
Norpig
Bwfc1958
scottjames30
Soul Kitchen
karlypants
finlaymcdanger
Sluffy
xmiles
Copper Dragon
Boggersbelief
Hipster_Nebula
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21Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:02 am

Guest


Guest

Look at the situation in The States, Stan.

300 million people and 83% of them readily identify themselves as "active Christians."

Folk slag Islam off by saying that it's a stone age religion, but how is that thinking any different to the stuff that's being peddled in the States now?

It's all about "potential" surely?

22Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:36 am

Soul Kitchen

Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

Breadman wrote:Yeah, we all know - we get the news on our tellies as well.

But does that mean that all Muslims are cunts?

No it doesn't , but you don't know who you are stood next to or who you are letting in the country, and some folk want to let more in.
If that's the case innocents will have to keep taking one for the "team" eh?

23Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:26 am

Boggersbelief

Boggersbelief
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Putin is close to nuking these bastards. I can't wait

24Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:16 am

scottjames30

scottjames30
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Unbelievably insane.

25Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:35 am

Hipster_Nebula

Hipster_Nebula
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Breadman wrote:Yeah, we all know - we get the news on our tellies as well.

But does that mean that all Muslims are cunts?

You'll have to point to where I said anything of this description. So in the meantime the insinuations can stop. 

Oh and I'm not Ill informed.

26Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:11 am

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

Breadman wrote:
IS want us to hate Islam and fear it.


I am pretty sure they want us to convert to their insane interpretation of Islam or die.

There is no getting away from the fact that religious extremists of all persuasions are prone to killing people who don't share their beliefs but that currently the religion most likely to generate this kind of atrocity is Islam. As to why, I think that the support provided by the Saudis to Wahhabism has a lot to answer for.

27Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:36 am

Guest


Guest

Copper Dragon wrote:
Breadman wrote:But does that mean that all Muslims are cunts?

No, but they have the potential to be due to the extreme fairy story that they believe in.

Powell went on about the wrong sort, but Churchill 50/60 years before him knew......

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedism lays on its votaries. Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity

Considering how many Muslims fought and died for this country over 2 world wars, I find Churchills quote particularly distasteful.

I don't know what people think the alternative should have been had we 'heeded' the warnings of Powell or Churchill, we go out, colonise huge parts of the world, destroy local cultures and enslave millions of people as we go, then when globalisation comes to us in Britain it's a disaster, rivers of blood etc etc. Fuck off.

If the IS attacks create more tension and abuse towards normal Muslims (already rapidly on the rise) then they've done their job. Divisions will get deeper and more will join up. As much as I dislike religion it's not going anywhere and this is a free country, throwing them all into one pot is as good as blaming every Jew for Israelis atrocities.

28Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:01 am

Soul Kitchen

Soul Kitchen
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

Islam and the West don't mix, simple as. 
Let's all hug a muzzy and see if it works?!

29Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:18 am

Bwfc1958

Bwfc1958
Tinned Toms - You know it makes sense!

There's not much to be said that hasn't been said already really. This topic has been done to death on here before and will be done many more times in the future unfortunately, because this problem will only get worse, not better.

There's no way of stopping it completely but it can be slowed down imo. Terrorist organisations like IS rely on the people of the Western world to recruit new members as much as they rely on themselves. 

They attack innocent people, as they did last night in Paris. Then they announce they did it in the name of Islam and wait for the inevitable Islamaphobia that sweeps the world. People start to say things like, "Islam is supposed to be the religion of peace apparently, what a load of bollocks. Islamic people are just following their religion to the word of what their bible equivalent tells them." So, not only are Muslims falling for terrorist propaganda, we are too. In turn it creates hatred and division within communities. People, not everyone, but some people tar all Muslims with the same brush. 

Most of ther people that commit these atrocities on western soil are the people that have been raised here. We can help stop them becoming a terrorist. 

When a Muslim from one of our communities is approached by a radicalist hoping for a new member, the potential new member needs to make a choice. He or she can either think - (a) You know what, everything this radicalist is telling me is right, these people hate our religion, I've seen it. They've treated me like a terrorist even though I had done nothing wrong. They've tarred me with the same brush as everyone that commits terrorist acts and treated me like shit and made me feel alienated in what is my own country. If that's what they think of me then that's what I'll be. They treat me like shit so I don't care any more. Fuck them.

(b) You know what, this guy is talking shit, the people in my community have been good to me. They are good people who understand that the word of our religion is being misused by dickheads that want to kill people for no reason. They haven't tarred me with the same brush as terrorists and I refuse to kill people that have welcomed me. 

A bit idealistic I know but you have to start somewhere and I can't think of any other ways to help, can you?

30Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:20 am

Norpig

Norpig
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Soul Kitchen wrote:Islam and the West don't mix, simple as. 
Let's all hug a muzzy and see if it works?!
 i have a lot of Muslim friends SK and your routine and continued racism is offensive

31Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:33 am

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

As usual with this sort of atrocity, what makes us well up with emotion is not so much the appalling capacity of mankind to commit acts of horror, so much as mankind's extraordinary capacity to demonstrate bravery, resilience, compassion, empathy and acts of selfless love.

Nowhere is this exemplified more than in Schindler's List or The Grapes of Wrath.......but also in the fact that, at the same time as the cowardly attacks were taking place, a record amount of money was being raised for Children in Need. 

I found the spontaneous rendition of the French national anthem by fans leaving the Stade de France very moving and inspiring. Most ordinary people in the world are good.

32Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:53 am

Sluffy

Sluffy
Admin

The problem as I see it is that Islam is a 'closed' religion.

There is no allowable 'challenge' from within to its doctrines.

The result is, is that it just repeats itself from generation to generation over time - irrespective of any view (or facts) from the world outside of it.

It's an 'unforgiving' culture in that the Quran has laid down how its followers must live their lives and no deviation from it is allowed despite the passage of time or advances in knowledge.

The best example I can think of to explain this by comparison to the then similar domination of peoples lives by the Christian church several hundred years ago was when Galileo correctly proved that the Sun and not the Earth was the centre of our Solar System.

The church believed that God had made the Earth the centre of everything and for Galileo to say differently was heresy and for which Galileo spent the best part of the last 30 years of his life under arrest.

The then all powerful Christian church that used to set the law and dominate people lives has been replaced over the century's by democratic rule of the people by the people and the impartiality of the upholding and enforcement of law by the judiciary.

The western model of life may very well not be perfect but it does give a freedom to people to chose how to live their lives whereas that of Islam does not.

The point I'm trying to make is that the Christian church at the time and Islam to this day believed and led their lives to a credo laid down a thousand years previous to it and founded, established and set at a time that may have been appropriate to it then but has since been overtaken by the acquirement of century's more knowledge and understanding of science and nature and the change in social attitudes, particularly the equality of free men and (in particular) women throughout the world.

Until Islam allows itself to be integrated with the rest of the world there will always be conflict.

It's as simple as that really.

33Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:27 pm

Bwfc1958

Bwfc1958
Tinned Toms - You know it makes sense!

Charlie Chaplin with an amazing speech in the great dictator which is more relevant today than ever. GIves me Goosebumps every time.

34Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:33 pm

Guest


Guest

I'd never seem that before and watching it's just made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

Brilliant - cheers for posting.

35Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:36 pm

finlaymcdanger

finlaymcdanger
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Breadman wrote:I'd never seem that before and watching it's just made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

Brilliant - cheers for posting.

Same here. I had seen the image but never heard the speech. Powerful stuff

36Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:30 pm

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

Having followed events until late last night I was a bit shocked this morning to find that the French police seem to think it's all over. Or at least that's what they're saying in order to try to get the people to return to some sort of normality. 
I'd have thought that the element of surprise and stretching police resources via multiple simultaneous attacks was a successful strategy that the terrorists would have continued to use.
Maybe they're waiting for the police to drop their guard again?
Obviously the point of terrorism is to create an ongoing credible threat that prevents people from going about their daily lives i.e. living in terror. Well, they've succeeded.
And it's not realistic for the authorities to think they can protect a city the size of Paris. Or London. Or Manchester. There must be hundreds of opportunities to commit mass murder every day. They could easily poison the unprotected reservoirs that supply water to the cities without even going into a city. I guess the perpetrators lack imagination but if it carries on like this, martial law will be everywhere before we know it and 1984 will become a reality.
Cue conspiracy theories about the Americans being responsible. Who knows? Nobody has claimed responsibility as yet, although the media are making spurious connections to IS.
What is sure is that someone wants to curb the freedoms we take for granted, and there's not much we can do about it.
The good news for Wanderers fans is that if they're planning to bomb a crowded football stadium, they won't be targeting the Reebok.

37Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:38 pm

Copper Dragon

Copper Dragon
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

bwfc1874 wrote:
Copper Dragon wrote:
Breadman wrote:But does that mean that all Muslims are cunts?

No, but they have the potential to be due to the extreme fairy story that they believe in.

Powell went on about the wrong sort, but Churchill 50/60 years before him knew......

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedism lays on its votaries. Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity

Considering how many Muslims fought and died for this country over 2 world wars, I find Churchills quote particularly distasteful.

I don't know what people think the alternative should have been had we 'heeded' the warnings of Powell or Churchill, we go out, colonise huge parts of the world, destroy local cultures and enslave millions of people as we go, then when globalisation comes to us in Britain it's a disaster, rivers of blood etc etc. Fuck off.

If the IS attacks create more tension and abuse towards normal Muslims (already rapidly on the rise) then they've done their job. Divisions will get deeper and more will join up. As much as I dislike religion it's not going anywhere and this is a free country, throwing them all into one pot is as good as blaming every Jew for Israelis atrocities.

A bit of a messed up timeline you are working to there.

By the way Churchill said that in 1899 and here's the rest of it...... 


Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen, all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

38Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:41 pm

bwfc71

bwfc71
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

This is not about religion.

If it was then IS wouldn't have a murder ratio of 98.9% Muslims and 1.1% other religions - the figure would be the other way round!

Fact is there are extremist cold blooded murderers hiding behind a religion to meet their on aims at scaring other humans to follow and extremist path.

But there are many atrocities done by other religions, especially Christianity (Yugsolavian Civil War, World Wars, Boer Wars, Jingoism/Expansionism by European countries, IRA, ETA, Waco etc etc etc).  All religions have extremist sects that want to control people through death, violence and fear.   But the major 3 (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are all the same religion (being the teachings of Abraham) and cross each other like there is no tomorrow!

For me what has happened in France is what Jason Manford said - they were just a bunch of cowardly cold blooded murderers and has nothing to do with religion.

39Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:43 pm

karlypants

karlypants
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

bwfc71 wrote:This is not about religion.

If it was then IS wouldn't have a murder ratio of 98.9% Muslims and 1.1% other religions - the figure would be the other way round!

Fact is there are extremist cold blooded murderers hiding behind a religion to meet their on aims at scaring other humans to follow and extremist path.

But there are many atrocities done by other religions, especially Christianity (Yugsolavian Civil War, World Wars, Boer Wars, Jingoism/Expansionism by European countries, IRA, ETA, Waco etc etc etc).  All religions have extremist sects that want to control people through death, violence and fear.   But the major 3 (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which are all the same religion (being the teachings of Abraham) and cross each other like there is no tomorrow!

For me what has happened in France is what Jason Manford said - they were just a bunch of cowardly cold blooded murderers and has nothing to do with religion.
:clap:

40Scores dead in Paris attacks - Page 2 Empty Re: Scores dead in Paris attacks Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:49 pm

bwfc71

bwfc71
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

6 million Muslims live if France - if just 10% were radicals then there would have been 600,000 attackers.  If only 1% were radicals then there would have been 60,000 attackers - now if 1/10th of those were actually radicals then that would mean there would have been 6000 terrorist - but as it is there were 8.  Yes 8 mentally deranged pathetic cold blooded murderers - and yet almost 6million citizens will be blamed for the actions of 8!!!!

If you add up the total number of people in IS, Boko Harem and Al Quaeda it comes to 0.003% (yes 0.003%) of the total 1.6billion Muslims - and yet the religion gets a bad press because of a very very very very very small percentage - a smaller percentage than Christians creating atrocities across the world which is 3% of the total number!!



Last edited by bwfc71 on Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Thanks to Rammywhite pointing it out :-))

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