When do you think a deal will be done

Breadman wrote:Do you really think that article tells us anything we don't already know?

ie, nobody's anywhere near concluding a deal and the final say on who buys the club goes to ED.

No shit, Sherlock.......

Not being argumentative, just don't see anything in Iles' latest article that actually sheds any new light on what's going on.

Did you read the whole article?
Appreciate this extract confirms what we know but taken as a whole, it provides an interesting insight.
If true of course:

TODAY’S events at the High Court have thrown up a lot of questions from Wanderers fans.
Chief Football Writer Marc Iles wades through some of the most important ones to give out some information.
Q – Was there a threat that the club would cease to exist?
A – We were told it was “inconceivable but not impossible” but the aggression with which HMRC goes after football clubs these days means nothing was guaranteed. Wanderers own too many saleable assets for liquidation to have been a serious possibility and that continues to be the case going forward.
Q – How did the tax bill stack up?
A – It was £2.2million. That was made up of one month’s PAYE and one quarter’s VAT. Wanderers’ tax record beyond that point was excellent and certainly counted for them in the court.
Q – Why did the HMRC ask for the club to be liquidated?
A – Simply put, they don’t like football clubs. It possibly comes from having been stung a few too many times when they have hit the wall in the past.
Q – At what stage is the sale right now?
A – Wanderers had indicated they were talking with three parties in the build up to the case but submitted they had four interested bidders in the courtroom. None of them have got to the stage where they have lodged money with the solicitors, or signed a share purchase agreement.
Q – What happens if more than one bidder puts their money forward?
A – Eddie Davies will have the final say. This is still a matter of selling his shares.
Q – Is the Supporters’ Trust a viable option at this point?
A – Not right now as they have only just been legally registered. But if they were able to obtain the right financial backing – or individuals of high net worth – then they could potentially look to a model similar to Portsmouth, where 51 per cent of the club is owned by members and 49 by the investors.
Q – How has the club earned breathing room after the case?
A – The sale of the car park adjoining Middlebrook should mean they can pay a large chunk of the tax bill and then agree payments for a couple of months after that. It also eases the pressure on this month’s wage bill for staff and players.
Crucially, if the tax bill is paid it also eliminates one of the biggest external debts and should mean that potential buyers do not need to provide as much funding to see the club survive for the rest of the season.
Q – What exactly is for sale?
A – Short answer, everything. The hotel, stadium and academy would be the last things the club would want to sell as they would certainly reduce the value of a bid. The [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ground, car park and offices are concrete assets under consideration but players would appear the most expendable.
Q – What would happen if the club sold the training ground at Euxton.    
A – It is understood that the first team would remain in situ until the end of the season and then move down to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] at the start of pre-season. Remedial [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] will be necessary at the academy site but the club is confident it could be completed in time.

Yeah, I read it last night when it was first published and none of it struck me as being new or providing any insider info.

Everything said in that piece has been speculated on (and the info coming directly out of the court yesterday regarding these "three or four interested parties" apart, that's all it is - Iles speculating) before and gone over at length in the BN and on here.

If you break it down by question, there's absolutely no new info or insight in that article:

The club's for sale, we owe HMRC over £2 million in unpaid tax and VAT, there are a few interested groups sniffing around but nobody's shown their financial hand yet, everything's potentially up for sale to keep HMRC at arm's length - players first, fixed assets thereafter, the ST could at some future point buy into the club and the first team will (obviously) train at Lostock if they flog Euxton.

Nothing new.

Sorry.

(Honestly not trying to be an arse.)

And continuing in the spirit of posting speculative stuff that doesn't really add much to the debate, here's a link to a blog that's doing the rounds:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Nothing majorly new in there but it does sort of agree with a couple of things I've been banging on about for years:

Eddie D is just a puppet for whoever's really running the Moonshift show and a lot of this £180 million "debt" doesn't actually exist -

"Player success fees" paid to Moonshift by the club.....?

The bit about handing 2009's Sky money over to Moonshift in its entirety came as news to me though - sort of answers the question: "Where did all the TV money go?"

"Routed circuitously through several numbered bank accounts and then finally deposited safely in a hole in someone's back garden in the British Virgin Islands" would appear to be the answer.

And the bit about Fildraw at the end is quite interesting.

Breadman wrote:Yeah, I read it last night when it was first published and none of it struck me as being new or providing any insider info.

Everything said in that piece has been speculated on (and the info coming directly out of the court yesterday regarding these "three or four interested parties" apart, that's all it is - Iles speculating) before and gone over at length in the BN and on here.

If you break it down by question, there's absolutely no new info or insight in that article:

The club's for sale, we owe HMRC over £2 million in unpaid tax and VAT, there are a few interested groups sniffing around but nobody's shown their financial hand yet, everything's potentially up for sale to keep HMRC at arm's length - players first, fixed assets thereafter, the ST could at some future point buy into the club and the first team will (obviously) train at Lostock if they flog Euxton.

Nothing new.

Sorry.

(Honestly not trying to be an arse.)

If I was being an arse I'd be saying "you don't need to try" amigo, but I won't because you know I love you. Whilst much of it confirms suspicions, there are a couple of bits I didn't know:

• Wanderers own too many saleable assets for liquidation to have been a serious possibility and that continues to be the case going forward. - so no chance of admin then Marc?
  
• Wanderers’ tax record beyond that point was excellent and certainly counted for them in the court. - I thought we'd been struggling with tax payments, but apparently not.
  
• Crucially, if the tax bill is paid it also eliminates one of the biggest external debts and should mean that potential buyers do not need to provide as much funding to see the club survive for the rest of the season. - Sure, and if more assets are sold they may end up having to pay nothing as there will be nothing left to buy which begs all sorts of questions about the potential new owners.
  
• The [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ground, car park and offices are concrete assets under consideration but players would appear the most expendable. - I thought the car park sale was well under way but now it seems it's a lower priority than selling the squad
  
  

There are some nuances in this article that - if true - give an insight into where we might go from here IMO.

Yeah - The ST will end up owning the club and that's summat else that scares the shit out of me because we will never know who's pulling its strings.

Frying pan to Massive fire.

Said fire being stoked by unnamed and largely invisible individuals who will use it as an opportunity to strip out whatever's left and then fuck off.

How much has the ST got to play with?

gloswhite wrote:How much has the ST got to play with?

50p and a bag of grapes.

My thoughts too. So why are they being looked at as a possible, future, prospect. Its all bollocks.

It is bollocks, it's simply people looking for their 15 minutes.

Natasha Whittam wrote:It is bollocks, it's simply people looking for their 15 minutes.

On the face of it I agree but my big fear is that when the appeal goes out to "local business" for funding, twats like Tipp Ex Teeth will get involved and then all bets are off.

I'm not going tonight for the first time in years,and I feel a bit guilty.

Still,never mind.

Breadman wrote:

Natasha Whittam wrote:It is bollocks, it's simply people looking for their 15 minutes.

On the face of it I agree but my big fear is that when the appeal goes out to "local business" for funding, twats like Tipp Ex Teeth will get involved and then all bets are off.

I think I resigned myself to the idea month's ago that the vultures - in one form or another - would descend on the club once ED stated he was prepared to write off so much money because whichever way you stack it up the assets will outstrip the investment. 
Actually getting owners that have the club's interest at heart would be a massive bonus but thankfully ED doesn't seem prepared to hand over the club to the first group that promise to come up with the money. This "not meeting the criteria" thing is clearly "not meeting EDs criteria" because the money will be found and I believe ED is looking for assurances that the assets won't be stripped in conjunction with a business plan that keeps us going and maybe even shows a bit of ambition.
Whether it's dodgy buyers, administrators selling off everything on the cheap or an ST that is stumbling around like a newborn foal we are likely to be in trouble and relegation is pretty much nailed on.
The knights in shining armour scenario that could avoid this nightmare is looking increasingly unlikely but we live in hope.

Let's face it, we will have been asset stripped to fuck before disley gets a hold of us anyway. What's the worst that could happen. (Famous last words)

So Holdsworth just tweeted a picture saying "fat lady singing is imminent". Takeover done or has he finally given up..? Could obviously be nothing but ill hold onto any bit of hope

Boggersbelief wrote:So Holdsworth just tweeted a picture saying "fat lady singing is imminent". Takeover done or has he finally given up..? Could obviously be nothing but ill hold onto any bit of hope

I would be hopeful (and even in the long run) that he means Eddie's days are over soon and a deal is happening (finally).  Let's hope the long run is good with whoever buys the club.  I would also be hopeful of a voice for the ST.  In the States, there is one major sports team which is owned by the community... the Green Bay Packers are the only team in the States which is a publicly owned, non-profit organization.  The fans own the shares, but there is professional management.  There are almost 361,000 shareholders.  Some people say they have the best owners

observer wrote:

Boggersbelief wrote:So Holdsworth just tweeted a picture saying "fat lady singing is imminent". Takeover done or has he finally given up..? Could obviously be nothing but ill hold onto any bit of hope

I would be hopeful (and even in the long run) that he means Eddie's days are over soon and a deal is happening (finally).  Let's hope the long run is good with whoever buys the club.  I would also be hopeful of a voice for the ST.  In the States, there is one major sports team which is owned by the community... the Green Bay Packers are the only team in the States which is a publicly owned, non-profit organization.  The fans own the shares, but there is professional management.  There are almost 361,000 shareholders.  Some people say they have the best owners

Problem is though, Obs (as I'm sure you're already aware), everybody gets a fair share of the pie when the NFL divvies up the money generated via TV money, merch sales and ticket money (All owned by the NFL).

And the worst team gets first dibs on the best players in the annual draft - Aaron Rodgers was expected to be the number one draft pick when the 49ers passed on him and GB were lucky to get him.

It's be like the hottest prospect at Utd's academy being forced to sign for whoever finished bottom of League Two and Utd getting no money for them.

And players' don't get transferred between teams for fees.

So it's a completely different system. 

Breadman wrote:

observer wrote:

Boggersbelief wrote:So Holdsworth just tweeted a picture saying "fat lady singing is imminent". Takeover done or has he finally given up..? Could obviously be nothing but ill hold onto any bit of hope

I would be hopeful (and even in the long run) that he means Eddie's days are over soon and a deal is happening (finally).  Let's hope the long run is good with whoever buys the club.  I would also be hopeful of a voice for the ST.  In the States, there is one major sports team which is owned by the community... the Green Bay Packers are the only team in the States which is a publicly owned, non-profit organization.  The fans own the shares, but there is professional management.  There are almost 361,000 shareholders.  Some people say they have the best owners

Problem is though, Obs (as I'm sure you're already aware), everybody gets a fair share of the pie when the NFL divvies up the money generated via TV money, merch sales and ticket money (All owned by the NFL).

And the worst team gets first dibs on the best players in the annual draft - Aaron Rodgers was expected to be the number one draft pick when the 49ers passed on him and GB were lucky to get him.

It's be like the hottest prospect at Utd's academy being forced to sign for whoever finished bottom of League Two and Utd getting no money for them.

And players' don't get transferred between teams for fees.

So it's a completely different system. 

Absolutely correct.  It's something I talked about years ago that the Premier League needs to change to keep it from being a top six league.  This was the idea of Pete Rozelle, commissioner in the 60's and 70's who was a Public Relations person for the LA Rams.  He was a surprise choice to be Commissioner... and was only elected after the favorites split the votes.  He was the compromise choice.  But he had a clear vision. Unlike Major League Baseball, he had (as you so aptly pointed out) them split all the revenues equally.  And as you point out, the draft works to make things even out over time. 

You still have greedy owners to deal with, but having a strong person in charge (not like FIFA's corrupt officials) helps to make things more equal and allows all of the teams to have their day in the sunshine (if they pick well). 

Well we have have a small base with lots of clubs around... a relegation system in place... and got very lucky to have been top 8 in the EPL for 3 years.  Things go around and we had a coach who made shady deals, but got us players who could play at the top of the EPL.  I wish we still had BSA...  a lot more than PG who has been hidden in the shadows, making an obscene amount of money, and who has lacked transparency (may he get well from whatever he is ailing from)!  We are at the bottom of a bad cycle, and with some hope, we will recover and save our season by finishing one point above the bottom 3.  I don't know how since the players are not playing to their potential.

But the long and short of it, is the system needs an overhaul... if teams like us are going to survive.  You can't just be spending like Russian billionaires and Arab sheiks for too long.  It would be great if we had the local support to buy the team... but obviously it can't be run with a negative cash flow every month. The Packers are a great team to look at from afar and emulate... but as you so rightly pointed out, the systems are so unalike.

Let's hope "the fat lady has sung" and we inch out of this debt and out of the bottom three.

Fully agree and (like you) it's something I've been banging on about for years.

It's all down to Sky over here - they're far too powerful.

Over there (as you know) there's no one broadcaster dictating things and the NFL isn't beholden to CBS and Fox, as the Premier League are to Sky.

Without major changes (which will never happen) we'll wind up with a Premier League and sod all else soon.

But folk seem happy enough and I'm as bad because I pay the bastards £100 a month but what choice do you have? It's a monopoly.

Boggersbelief wrote:So Holdsworth just tweeted a picture saying "fat lady singing is imminent". Takeover done or has he finally given up..? Could obviously be nothing but ill hold onto any bit of hope

He has got tickets to see Adele.

Nixon saying Car Park deal is worth £20 million. 

Is there something buried under that car park I don't know about? How can it be worth £20 million?