Brexit - A new twist!

Today's Construction News Briefing:

Next Wednesday chancellor Philip Hammond will stand up in parliament and deliver his 2017 Budget. The red briefcase will no doubt include promises to support the construction of new transport, energy and housing projects, with the mantra that these schemes will help drive the UK’s economy post-Brexit. But while the government may be willing to back major construction projects, it is not entirely clear who it expects to build them. For years the UK has been able to paper over the cracks of its construction skills crisis through its ability to draw on workers from across the EU. If the reports from the weekend are true, from next month that might be a bit harder. The Telegraph reported on Sunday that prime minister Theresa May was poised to announce the end of free movement for new EU migrants on the same day that she formally triggers Brexit negotiations. The ramifications of any decision to stop new EU migrants from automatically staying in the UK indefinitely could be monumental for the construction industry. Mayor of London Sadiq Khan was keen to stress this today. A release from the mayor’s office found that almost 100,000 of the capital’s construction workers were from elsewhere in the EU. Mr Khan said ‘hard Brexit’ could leave a quarter of the skilled construction workforce in the capital “high and dry” with any curbs having a “crippling effect on the city’s housebuilding plans”. And this crippling effect would be felt more widely across the UK construction sector. Last week an Arcadis report predicted that a hard Brexit would see 214,000 fewer EU nationals entering UK construction by 2020, while at the same time predicting that the industry needed to recruit 400,000 people a year to meet the country’s construction backlog. This came after Balfour Beatty, which last year recruited one in 10 of its staff from the EU, warned that any uncertainty about free labour would exacerbate the engineering shortage and see construction costs rise. As the country sits on a multi-billion-pound housing and infrastructure pipeline it will need a growing cohort of people from the UK and elsewhere to build them. It is clear that the UK needs to increase the number of domestic workers it trains and reduce its reliance on EU labour. But this won’t just happen overnight. Last year only 21,000 apprentices entered the construction industry, an improvement on 2015 but still barely scratching the surface when it comes to the country’s requirement. The government can’t have its cake and eat it with Brexit. If it sees construction as one of the key parts driving the UK economy post-Brexit, contractors will need access to the right skills to deliver these projects. Yet without free movement of labour from the EU, this will be an uphill struggle.

The following seems clear enough, Wander.    Daily Telegraph; May 2016

"Brexit will increase the risk of Europe descending into war, David Cameron will warn as he says that Britain will pay a high cost if "we turn our back" on the EU.
The Prime Minister will invoke Sir Winston Churchill and say that the foundation of the European Union has helped bring together countries that have been "at each others throats for decades".

Or do you prefer this article from The Guardian from around the same date, Wander?

"David Cameron has raised the spectre of war in support of the case for the UK remaining in Europe, insisting that continued membership could help avoid future conflicts.
The prime minister drew on examples from history in his argument, talking of the consequences of conflict, with emotional images that included reference to the rows of white crosses on Commonwealth war graves.


The speech, parts of which were released in advance, prompted a backlash from the leave campaign that his argument amounted to hyperbole and scaremongering."

Nicely timed Okocha 

What a load of bollocks from Wanderlust regarding unemployment during peace time.

Of course unemployment is down when there's a huge war on, that doesn't need explaining.

However going off what he's said and the graph he's produced, I'm pretty sure he hasn't heard of the Great Depression which started a good ten years after World War 1.

We also didn't have a war with the Argies because of high unemployment. The high unemployment was there because of crap Labour governments in the 70's and Thatcher being a bitch......

The two main factors behind the rise in the jobless total are the economic recession and the restructuring of industry.

There's an awful lot more people about as well   

You guys should really stop believing all the media hype.

Okocha - I don't know which journalists you are quoting but a) these are the journalists' words not Camerons and b) still nothing about WW3 which you also falsely claim he said (accompanied by exclamation marks no less) 

Why can't you see the truth of the matter? He never said it. In fact he clearly stated that he didn't  think Brexit would cause war in Europe. All you are doing is repeating the assumptions, extrapolations and downright lies created by the media and it doesn't do you credit.

Copper: Read the numbers and weep as they say. Peacetime is inextricably linked to increased unemployment. Increased unemployment is linked to economic downturn. And throughout history people have gone to war primarily to alleviate economic problems. The Crash of '29 was a direct result of high unemployment causing underdemand at a time of overproduction through efficiency gains so investors pocketed their money and the Stock Exchange duly crashed.
I appreciate that you are trying to put forward the "Broken Window Fallacy" argument, but that merely argues that overall war isn't good for the economy but doesn't address the issue that people and leaders believe it is. And what people believe is more important than the truth as Brexit clearly demonstrates.

Glos: unemployment figures are expressed as a percentage of the working population so the total number is irrelevant.

Wanderlust: take your pick from the articles below and then tell us that you know better. You are beginning to resemble Trump in your denials of facts!

'Brexit' could trigger World War Three, warns David Cameron - Mirror ...

www.mirror.co.uk › News › UK News › EU Referendum
9 May 2016 - Mr Cameron told pro-EU campaigners: "Can we be so sure peace ... no plans for Brexit - despite David Cameron claiming it could trigger war.

David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war

www.telegraph.co.uk › News

[list="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px;"]
[*]www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/08/cameron-brexit-will-increase-risk-of-europe-descending-into-war/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
[/list]

Is David Cameron right that leaving EU could increase the risk of war ...

https://www.theguardian.com › World › Foreign policy
9 May 2016 - PM has raised spectre of conflict to support case for UK remaining in EU. We look at whether his claims stand up to scrutiny.

David Cameron warns Brexit would lead to war and genocide | Daily ...

www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Now-Cameron-warns-Brexit-lead-war-genocide-PM-s-extraordi...
8 May 2016 - Dire warning: David Cameron will deliver a dramatic speech that will .... Professor David Abulafia, have dismissed the claim that the EU has ...

EU referendum: Cameron says UK exit could put peace at risk - BBC ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296


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[*]www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
[/list]

9 May 2016 - David Cameron says peace could be put at risk by leaving the European ... During the course of political campaigns the claims being made on ...

Cameron's Latest Desperate Threat: Vote Remain Or Get World War III

www.breitbart.com/.../camerons-latest-desperate-stunt-leave-europe-get-third-world-w...


9 May 2016 - Cameron's Latest Desperate Threat: Vote Remain Or Get World War III ... Claim: Winston Churchill would have campaigned to Remain ... Germany will invade France and WW3 will start, we will be unable to trade with Europe, ...

EU referendum: David Cameron says 'Brexit' could spark World War III ...

www.dailyrecord.co.uk › News › Politics › European Union
9 May 2016 - EU referendum: David Cameron says 'Brexit' could spark World War III .... Vote Leave said "claims that leaving the EU and taking back control ...

Did you seriously just quote Breitbart.....?

FFS......

Bread2.0 wrote:Did you seriously just quote Breitbart.....?

FFS......

It went unnoticed in amongst all the rest saying the same thing. Don't read it if you don't rate it.

okocha wrote:Wanderlust: take your pick from the articles below and then tell us that you know better. You are beginning to resemble Trump in your denials of facts!

'Brexit' could trigger World War Three, warns David Cameron - Mirror ...

www.mirror.co.uk › News › UK News › EU Referendum
9 May 2016 - Mr Cameron told pro-EU campaigners: "Can we be so sure peace ... no plans for Brexit - despite David Cameron claiming it could trigger war.

David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war

www.telegraph.co.uk › News

[list="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px;"]
[*]www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/08/cameron-brexit-will-increase-risk-of-europe-descending-into-war/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
[/list]

Is David Cameron right that leaving EU could increase the risk of war ...

https://www.theguardian.com › World › Foreign policy
9 May 2016 - PM has raised spectre of conflict to support case for UK remaining in EU. We look at whether his claims stand up to scrutiny.

David Cameron warns Brexit would lead to war and genocide | Daily ...

www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Now-Cameron-warns-Brexit-lead-war-genocide-PM-s-extraordi...
8 May 2016 - Dire warning: David Cameron will deliver a dramatic speech that will .... Professor David Abulafia, have dismissed the claim that the EU has ...

EU referendum: Cameron says UK exit could put peace at risk - BBC ...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296


[list="margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border: 0px;"]
[*]www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
[/list]

9 May 2016 - David Cameron says peace could be put at risk by leaving the European ... During the course of political campaigns the claims being made on ...

Cameron's Latest Desperate Threat: Vote Remain Or Get World War III

www.breitbart.com/.../camerons-latest-desperate-stunt-leave-europe-get-third-world-w...


9 May 2016 - Cameron's Latest Desperate Threat: Vote Remain Or Get World War III ... Claim: Winston Churchill would have campaigned to Remain ... Germany will invade France and WW3 will start, we will be unable to trade with Europe, ...

EU referendum: David Cameron says 'Brexit' could spark World War III ...

www.dailyrecord.co.uk › News › Politics › European Union
9 May 2016 - EU referendum: David Cameron says 'Brexit' could spark World War III .... Vote Leave said "claims that leaving the EU and taking back control ...

...and not a single one of them came from Cameron's lips. None. Zero. Zilch.

Read what he actually said and not what the hacks make up.

The only fact you've quoted is that journalists put their own words into Cameron's mouth in order to create the headline.

Can't you see it?


I'll ask you again. Show me just one quote where Cameron actually says Brexit could spark World War 3 as you claim he did.

Not a newspaper headline invented by a journo. A quote from Cameron actually saying it.

You got anything or are you just going to continue quoting hacks as if they have anything to do with the truth or the facts?

What Cameron said was........

The truth is this, what happens in our neighbourhood matters to Britain.
That was true in 1914, in 1940 and in 1989. Or, you could add 1588, 1704 and 1815... And if things go wrong in Europe, let's not pretend we can be immune from the consequences.

The European Union has helped reconcile countries which were once at each others’ throats for decades. Britain has a fundamental national interest in maintaining common purpose in Europe to avoid future conflict between European countries.

So no he didn't mention a World War 3, but he did his politician speak to say... pulling out of the EU could cause future conflict in Europe.

So Cameron never mentioned WW3 and what he said was actually reasonable.

Now let's compare that to actual lies spouted by the brexiteers starting with Gisela Stuart:

"Every week we send £350m to Brussels.

I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS".

Now that the brexiteers have control how much of that £350m is going to be spent on the NHS?

I think that it was established long ago that there was a campaign of bullshit from both sides.

However I can't see any lies (as yet) in what Gisela Stuart said, and neither can I see her in control of anything.

I can't dispute your point about bullshit on both sides but I have a particular problem with the £350m claim. This is a classic case of framing. The brexit camp knew full well that this was the gross weekly contribution to the EU and that most of it came back in various ways from the EU. Yet they carried on pretending that it was the correct figure and that they would spend this money on the NHS. Literally as soon as thjey won they denied that they had said this - see for example IDS denying it on Good Morning Britain:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjj3oSlirPSAhVqDMAKHai1DM4QFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-news%2Fiain-duncan-smith-backtracks-over-8285234&usg=AFQjCNH-7auYyEE1tVAd-iec5ALs8PgSqw&sig2=-F6PQZKEFw0XICoqr96qlw

Copper Dragon wrote:What Cameron said was........

The truth is this, what happens in our neighbourhood matters to Britain. TRUE
That was true in 1914, in 1940 and in 1989. Or, you could add 1588, 1704 and 1815... And if things go wrong in Europe, let's not pretend we can be immune from the consequences. TRUE

The European Union has helped reconcile countries which were once at each others’ throats for decades. TRUE Britain has a fundamental national interest in maintaining common purpose in Europe to avoid future conflict between European countries. TRUE

So no he didn't mention a World War 3, but he did his politician speak to say... pulling out of the EU could cause future conflict in Europe.

You're getting it Stan. He didn't ever mention WW3 apart from in his rebuttal but the papers (and Okocha) said he did.

I totally disagree with the spin that was put on his words though. The way I understood it was that being in the EU;
1) acts as a buffer from potential problems - effectively pushing the UKs boundaries away from our shores
2) reduces the chance of conflict amongst our near neighbours - unlikely largely because the EU...
3) has been a catalyst in improving relationships amongst EU countries 

...all of which is true.

It wasn't "politician speak" as you call it, but "media speak" as it was the media that put that particular spin on his words and blew them up into something else.

I work in the criminal justice system and so when I voted out I did it because I firmly believe we should be able to pick and choose who we want in the country.
The crime figures are disproportional for people from certain countries. For example, there are loads of polish people in Bolton yet I have only had a couple on my books in the past 4 years. Yet I have had dozens of Romanian and Hungarians, even though they are here in much smaller numbers.

This isnt relevant to brexit but a lot of people have criticised the amount of refugees we took from Syria. However, Asian and\or muslim male sex offenders, again the figures are massively disproportional to the population. These are facts not opinion.

I barely heard a single decent argument during the months of debate before the vote so I have based my opinion on my own knowledge of crime figures which show that certain nationalities are committing far more crimes than others. Why would you want them in the country?

The Poles do seem to be getting a hard time at the moment which is very unfair as from my personal experience they are very hard working

Did anyone see the Panorama programme about Slough last night? All the business owners interviewed were worried that they will end up losing their foreign workers as they rely on them greatly and said they have a better work ethic than the locals!

I've known loads of people who have worked with poles and they can't speak highly enough about them. Clearly from what I see they come to work and I don't see how anyone can have a problem with that.

Other nationalities come to commit crime and try claim ESA due to 'anxiety and depression' and that is where I and others have a problem.

Norpig wrote:The Poles do seem to be getting a hard time at the moment which is very unfair as from my personal experience they are very hard working

Did anyone see the Panorama programme about Slough last night? All the business owners interviewed were worried that they will end up losing their foreign workers as they rely on them greatly and said they have a better work ethic than the locals!

To be fair if the Slough locals moved to say Krakow where they could get four times the money than they could back at home, then their work ethic would be better.