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Next Labour leader

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Hipster_Nebula
sunlight
Norpig
Sluffy
MartinBWFC
xmiles
karlypants
Natasha Whittam
boltonbonce
Cajunboy
14 posters

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21Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 15:53

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

xmiles wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
okocha wrote:Got to be someone statesman-like, someone who can command respect in terms of his/her oratory and  feasible policies. It was too easy to ridicule the party and its leader last time. Got to be able to keep the media onside, someone that the public can view as decent, genuine and able to hold their own in debate. Of the names touted so far, only one is not too lightweight, but lots of work needs doing to tweak the policies, perhaps by adopting the middle ground.
That'll be Sir Keir then.

I like Jess Phillips but have to agree that Starmer represents the best chance for Labour to recover.

Unfortunately there are two factors which will be used against him: he represents a London constituency and he is a man.


https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1223380/labour-leadership-sir-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn

22Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 17:16

Guest


Guest

xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:You claimed he refused to campaign for remain - this is a lie.

Your opinion on how genuine or effective he was is a completely separate point - and a subjective one at that.

Drop the lies, move on.

I should have said "campaign effectively".

The fact remains that Corbyn was a disaster for the Labour party and until that is addressed the Labour party will never be elected to government.

So, TROY, do you believe he campaigned effectively or that he really wanted us to stay in the EU given his life long opposition to the EU? Or that he dealt effectively with antisemitism in the Labour party?

I never claimed he did any of those things?

If you’re trying to pin us leaving the EU on Corbyn then I think you’re on another planet though, this is a Tory project and it’s them and their supporters who should have to shoulder the blame in the future.

23Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 17:18

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

boltonbonce wrote:
xmiles wrote:
wanderlust wrote:
okocha wrote:Got to be someone statesman-like, someone who can command respect in terms of his/her oratory and  feasible policies. It was too easy to ridicule the party and its leader last time. Got to be able to keep the media onside, someone that the public can view as decent, genuine and able to hold their own in debate. Of the names touted so far, only one is not too lightweight, but lots of work needs doing to tweak the policies, perhaps by adopting the middle ground.
That'll be Sir Keir then.

I like Jess Phillips but have to agree that Starmer represents the best chance for Labour to recover.

Unfortunately there are two factors which will be used against him: he represents a London constituency and he is a man.


https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1223380/labour-leadership-sir-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn

Yes I saw that earlier today bonce. Do you think it boosts Starmer's chances or damages them? Laughing

24Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 17:28

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:You claimed he refused to campaign for remain - this is a lie.

Your opinion on how genuine or effective he was is a completely separate point - and a subjective one at that.

Drop the lies, move on.

I should have said "campaign effectively".

The fact remains that Corbyn was a disaster for the Labour party and until that is addressed the Labour party will never be elected to government.

So, TROY, do you believe he campaigned effectively or that he really wanted us to stay in the EU given his life long opposition to the EU? Or that he dealt effectively with antisemitism in the Labour party?

I never claimed he did any of those things?

If you’re trying to pin us leaving the EU on Corbyn then I think you’re on another planet though, this is a Tory project and it’s them and their supporters who should have to shoulder the blame in the future.

I think you are missing my point. Clearly the blame for brexit starts with Cameron and the rich selfish bastards who led the Leave campaign.

I simply gave the example of Corbyn's failure to campaign effectively as an example of how he may not be as principled as some people like to believe.

25Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 18:10

MartinBWFC

MartinBWFC
Ivan Campo
Ivan Campo

I'd quite like Andy Burnham to get the gig.

26Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 18:14

Guest


Guest

xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:You claimed he refused to campaign for remain - this is a lie.

Your opinion on how genuine or effective he was is a completely separate point - and a subjective one at that.

Drop the lies, move on.

I should have said "campaign effectively".

The fact remains that Corbyn was a disaster for the Labour party and until that is addressed the Labour party will never be elected to government.

So, TROY, do you believe he campaigned effectively or that he really wanted us to stay in the EU given his life long opposition to the EU? Or that he dealt effectively with antisemitism in the Labour party?

I never claimed he did any of those things?

If you’re trying to pin us leaving the EU on Corbyn then I think you’re on another planet though, this is a Tory project and it’s them and their supporters who should have to shoulder the blame in the future.

I think you are missing my point. Clearly the blame for brexit starts with Cameron and the rich selfish bastards who led the Leave campaign.

I simply gave the example of Corbyn's failure to campaign effectively as an example of how he may not be as principled as some people like to believe.

No you suggested he failed to campaign to remain - which is a lie.

Your opinion on how effective his campaigning was is subjective, and as such doesn't prove your point. All I’m saying is you should drop that as an example.

He’ll be gone soon, going over old arguments will get us nowhere - we need to come together to get rid of this shameless Tory government that have managed to dupe half the nation.

27Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 18:24

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:You claimed he refused to campaign for remain - this is a lie.

Your opinion on how genuine or effective he was is a completely separate point - and a subjective one at that.

Drop the lies, move on.

I should have said "campaign effectively".

The fact remains that Corbyn was a disaster for the Labour party and until that is addressed the Labour party will never be elected to government.

So, TROY, do you believe he campaigned effectively or that he really wanted us to stay in the EU given his life long opposition to the EU? Or that he dealt effectively with antisemitism in the Labour party?

I never claimed he did any of those things?

If you’re trying to pin us leaving the EU on Corbyn then I think you’re on another planet though, this is a Tory project and it’s them and their supporters who should have to shoulder the blame in the future.

I think you are missing my point. Clearly the blame for brexit starts with Cameron and the rich selfish bastards who led the Leave campaign.

I simply gave the example of Corbyn's failure to campaign effectively as an example of how he may not be as principled as some people like to believe.

He’ll be gone soon, going over old arguments will get us nowhere - we need to come together to get rid of this shameless Tory government that have managed to dupe half the nation.

If you fail to learn from mistakes you are likely to repeat them. Putting a Corbyn stooge in as Labour leader pretty much guarantees continual electoral failure.

The emphasis on recovering the working class vote is part of the problem. As traditional working class voters make up only 14% of the electorate it will take a lot more than their votes to win a general election.



Last edited by xmiles on Sat Jan 04 2020, 18:37; edited 1 time in total

28Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 18:30

Guest


Guest

Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

29Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 18:36

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

30Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 18:49

boltonbonce

boltonbonce
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

xmiles wrote:

Yes I saw that earlier today bonce. Do you think it boosts Starmer's chances or damages them? Laughing  

When I start taking any notice of the Daily Express I'll probably call it a day. Interesting angle though.

31Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 19:56

okocha

okocha
El Hadji Diouf
El Hadji Diouf

As Martin suggested, Andy Burnham would be a worthy choice.....

32Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 20:18

Guest


Guest

Why do you say that Okocha?

I liked Burnham at the last leadership election until the debates, where it became clear he had little personal substance and would say whatever he thought was more likely to get him the job.

33Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 20:22

Guest


Guest

xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

34Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sat Jan 04 2020, 22:32

xmiles

xmiles
Jay Jay Okocha
Jay Jay Okocha

T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

This is getting tedious. I am sure if we could actually talk rather than email each other we could resolve this amicably but to me you are the one missing the point. I am not advocating dropping policies like nationalising the railways. What I am saying is that a Labour manifesto has to be pitched at a broad audience in order to enable Labour to win a majority. It also has to be sold by a capable leader.

At the moment our ongoing argument is just entertaining the Tories on this site. Sad

35Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sun Jan 05 2020, 00:06

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

He's in!
Check out the video...

36Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sun Jan 05 2020, 00:37

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

boltonbonce wrote:
xmiles wrote:

Yes I saw that earlier today bonce. Do you think it boosts Starmer's chances or damages them? Laughing  

When I start taking any notice of the Daily Express I'll probably call it a day. Interesting angle though.
Bit rich having political comment from a newspaper owned by tax-dodging, UKIP -funding pornographer Richard Desmond's Northern and Shell company.

37Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sun Jan 05 2020, 09:51

Guest


Guest

xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

This is getting tedious. I am sure if we could actually talk rather than email each other we could resolve this amicably but to me you are the one missing the point. I am not advocating dropping policies like nationalising the railways. What I am saying is that a Labour manifesto has to be pitched at a broad audience in order to enable Labour to win a majority. It also has to be sold by a capable leader.

At the moment our ongoing argument is just entertaining the Tories on this site. Sad

To be honest, I think we’re both in agreement that the policies are good but how they were pitched and who they were pitched by are the issue - in that, clearly Corbyn’s alienate large parts of the country.

I’m not sure how we move forward, but that’s for the leadership debates I suppose.

38Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sun Jan 05 2020, 14:31

wanderlust

wanderlust
Nat Lofthouse
Nat Lofthouse

T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:
xmiles wrote:
T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

This is getting tedious. I am sure if we could actually talk rather than email each other we could resolve this amicably but to me you are the one missing the point. I am not advocating dropping policies like nationalising the railways. What I am saying is that a Labour manifesto has to be pitched at a broad audience in order to enable Labour to win a majority. It also has to be sold by a capable leader.

At the moment our ongoing argument is just entertaining the Tories on this site. Sad

To be honest, I think we’re both in agreement that the policies are good but how they were pitched and who they were pitched by are the issue - in that, clearly Corbyn’s alienate large parts of the country.

I’m not sure how we move forward, but that’s for the leadership debates I suppose.

I genuinely don't think there is a platform for "policies" at the moment - the only thing that half the country is interested in is leaving the EU and they haven't really thought beyond that.
In a way, it will be good to get Brexit done and then folk will eventually start to refocus on what the Government is actually doing and the issues and decisions we face.
At the moment only half the country is concerned about policy so the leadership campaign could further divide the half that are bothered about policy.

39Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sun Jan 05 2020, 15:05

Guest


Guest

Agreed Lust, Labour tried and failed to drag the conversation away from Brexit and onto policy.

40Next Labour leader - Page 2 Empty Re: Next Labour leader Sun Jan 05 2020, 15:58

Cajunboy

Cajunboy
Frank Worthington
Frank Worthington

Hilary Benn?

A man respected from all sides of the house, a man who could test Boris at PMQ's, a man who could hopefully bring the party together.  He looks and sounds like a leader.

The question is what is the future for Momentum, a party within a party, can they be destroyed or will they ultimately destroy the Labour Party?

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