Next Labour leader

xmiles wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

okocha wrote:Got to be someone statesman-like, someone who can command respect in terms of his/her oratory and  feasible policies. It was too easy to ridicule the party and its leader last time. Got to be able to keep the media onside, someone that the public can view as decent, genuine and able to hold their own in debate. Of the names touted so far, only one is not too lightweight, but lots of work needs doing to tweak the policies, perhaps by adopting the middle ground.

That'll be Sir Keir then.

I like Jess Phillips but have to agree that Starmer represents the best chance for Labour to recover.

Unfortunately there are two factors which will be used against him: he represents a London constituency and he is a man.

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:You claimed he refused to campaign for remain - this is a lie.

Your opinion on how genuine or effective he was is a completely separate point - and a subjective one at that.

Drop the lies, move on.

I should have said "campaign effectively".

The fact remains that Corbyn was a disaster for the Labour party and until that is addressed the Labour party will never be elected to government.

So, TROY, do you believe he campaigned effectively or that he really wanted us to stay in the EU given his life long opposition to the EU? Or that he dealt effectively with antisemitism in the Labour party?

boltonbonce wrote:

xmiles wrote:

wanderlust wrote:

okocha wrote:Got to be someone statesman-like, someone who can command respect in terms of his/her oratory and  feasible policies. It was too easy to ridicule the party and its leader last time. Got to be able to keep the media onside, someone that the public can view as decent, genuine and able to hold their own in debate. Of the names touted so far, only one is not too lightweight, but lots of work needs doing to tweak the policies, perhaps by adopting the middle ground.

That'll be Sir Keir then.

I like Jess Phillips but have to agree that Starmer represents the best chance for Labour to recover.

Unfortunately there are two factors which will be used against him: he represents a London constituency and he is a man.

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1223380/labour-leadership-sir-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn

T.R.O.Y wrote:

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:You claimed he refused to campaign for remain - this is a lie.

Your opinion on how genuine or effective he was is a completely separate point - and a subjective one at that.

Drop the lies, move on.

I should have said "campaign effectively".

The fact remains that Corbyn was a disaster for the Labour party and until that is addressed the Labour party will never be elected to government.

So, TROY, do you believe he campaigned effectively or that he really wanted us to stay in the EU given his life long opposition to the EU? Or that he dealt effectively with antisemitism in the Labour party?

I never claimed he did any of those things?

If you’re trying to pin us leaving the EU on Corbyn then I think you’re on another planet though, this is a Tory project and it’s them and their supporters who should have to shoulder the blame in the future.

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:You claimed he refused to campaign for remain - this is a lie.

Your opinion on how genuine or effective he was is a completely separate point - and a subjective one at that.

Drop the lies, move on.

I should have said "campaign effectively".

The fact remains that Corbyn was a disaster for the Labour party and until that is addressed the Labour party will never be elected to government.

So, TROY, do you believe he campaigned effectively or that he really wanted us to stay in the EU given his life long opposition to the EU? Or that he dealt effectively with antisemitism in the Labour party?

I never claimed he did any of those things?

If you’re trying to pin us leaving the EU on Corbyn then I think you’re on another planet though, this is a Tory project and it’s them and their supporters who should have to shoulder the blame in the future.

I think you are missing my point. Clearly the blame for brexit starts with Cameron and the rich selfish bastards who led the Leave campaign.

I simply gave the example of Corbyn's failure to campaign effectively as an example of how he may not be as principled as some people like to believe.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:You claimed he refused to campaign for remain - this is a lie.

Your opinion on how genuine or effective he was is a completely separate point - and a subjective one at that.

Drop the lies, move on.

I should have said "campaign effectively".

The fact remains that Corbyn was a disaster for the Labour party and until that is addressed the Labour party will never be elected to government.

So, TROY, do you believe he campaigned effectively or that he really wanted us to stay in the EU given his life long opposition to the EU? Or that he dealt effectively with antisemitism in the Labour party?

I never claimed he did any of those things?

If you’re trying to pin us leaving the EU on Corbyn then I think you’re on another planet though, this is a Tory project and it’s them and their supporters who should have to shoulder the blame in the future.

I think you are missing my point. Clearly the blame for brexit starts with Cameron and the rich selfish bastards who led the Leave campaign.

I simply gave the example of Corbyn's failure to campaign effectively as an example of how he may not be as principled as some people like to believe.

He’ll be gone soon, going over old arguments will get us nowhere - we need to come together to get rid of this shameless Tory government that have managed to dupe half the nation.

T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

xmiles wrote:

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1223380/labour-leadership-sir-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn

Yes I saw that earlier today bonce. Do you think it boosts Starmer's chances or damages them?  

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

boltonbonce wrote:

xmiles wrote:

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1223380/labour-leadership-sir-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn

Yes I saw that earlier today bonce. Do you think it boosts Starmer's chances or damages them?  

When I start taking any notice of the Daily Express I'll probably call it a day. Interesting angle though.

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

This is getting tedious. I am sure if we could actually talk rather than email each other we could resolve this amicably but to me you are the one missing the point. I am not advocating dropping policies like nationalising the railways. What I am saying is that a Labour manifesto has to be pitched at a broad audience in order to enable Labour to win a majority. It also has to be sold by a capable leader.

At the moment our ongoing argument is just entertaining the Tories on this site.

T.R.O.Y wrote:

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:

xmiles wrote:

T.R.O.Y wrote:Don’t know who I’m voting for, never been fully taken by RLB but I’ll hear what she (and the others) have to say and then decide.

One thing that should be pointed out is that left wing policies polled well, so lurching to the right won’t help either.

I support most of these policies but if you don't win the election the policies are not worth the paper they are written on. To win an election Labour has to win the middle ground - there simply are not enough people with strongly held left wing views to win a general election by only appealing to them.

You’ve missed the point X. Nationalising rail and increasing the minimum wage to £10 weren’t only popular on the left, they polled well across the board.

If we drop the policies we risk losing the strength we have to progressive parties.

This is getting tedious. I am sure if we could actually talk rather than email each other we could resolve this amicably but to me you are the one missing the point. I am not advocating dropping policies like nationalising the railways. What I am saying is that a Labour manifesto has to be pitched at a broad audience in order to enable Labour to win a majority. It also has to be sold by a capable leader.

At the moment our ongoing argument is just entertaining the Tories on this site.

To be honest, I think we’re both in agreement that the policies are good but how they were pitched and who they were pitched by are the issue - in that, clearly Corbyn’s alienate large parts of the country.

I’m not sure how we move forward, but that’s for the leadership debates I suppose.