How is the Tory government doing?

Looking at each day's news, it is absolutely uncanny how this government manages to get so many decisions wrong, some not their own fault, but most just extraordinary misjudgements.

When the latter happens, the best thing ministers can do is apologise, rather than try to wriggle out of their culpability and blame others. 
Trust in their honesty and competence is low and the holes they keep digging are getting deeper......

It's all smoke and mirrors with this lot Okocha. The whole cabinet seems to be populated with totally incompetent politicians who put their foot in their mouth every time they open it. They can't seem to maintain the same point of view about anything from one day to the next. Priti Patel in particular is a complete embarrassment as Home Secretary and Johnson's decision to bring her back from the political wilderness after her previous misdemeanours and give her such a senior post once again calls Johnson's judgement into question. Then again, Boris was the Foreign Secretary who managed to get Nazanin Zaghari - Ratcliffe's prison sentence in Iran doubled so I suppose it's par for the course really.

I despair! Any remaining moral authority now dead despite this most rapid of u-turns. The public deserve better.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57879730

I agree Okocha, we all deserve better than this rubbish we are being dealt.
At any other time, we as a country would have thrown out this incompetent and amoral government. Unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing to take its place.

It's a sad indictment of the current state of the Labour party that if there were a general election tomorrow the Tories would still win with a large majority despite the shambles they are presiding over.
Staggering incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze on an industrial scale is what we are stuck with now I'm afraid.

Hip Priest wrote:It's a sad indictment of the current state of the Labour party that if there were a general election tomorrow the Tories would still win with a large majority despite the shambles they are presiding over.
Staggering incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze on an industrial scale is what we are stuck with now I'm afraid.

So what you are saying is the vast majority of people prefer a government of staggering incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze on an industrial scale rather than vote in a Labour administration.

Do you really believe that - after all you've just said it?

Do you honestly believe the majority of people condone incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze more than Kier and his mates?

Of course they don't - what utter crap that is.

Just because YOU see the government that way (maybe even those around you see them that way too) doesn't mean the rest of the country does also!

In fact they clearly don't, otherwise they wouldn't vote for them - even if it meant tactical voting to get other party's elected other than Tory or Labour - which indeed happened at the recent June, Amersham by-election when they elected the Lib Dem candidate (and incidentally gave Labour its WORST EVER by-election result in its entire history!).

The Labour party LOST Hartlepool to the Conservatives in May of this year - do you think the voters there voted FOR "staggering incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze"  in preference to voting Labour???

Of course they didn't!!!

What I'm saying is YOUR perception of the Tory government is simply NOT the majority view of the country - the actual by-election results since 2019 PROVE that - it isn't me saying it - the voters in those constituencies have gone out and physically voted as such themselves.

If people believed the same utter bollocks that you seem to do, do you think they would have unseated Labour in Hartlepool and dealt Labour the worst ever by-election result in its history at Amersham both as recently as two months ago???

Labour aren't perceived to be the Devil incarnate - indeed they even just held on to Batley a couple of weeks ago - it is simply that the vast majority of people don't believe the hogwash you clearly do about the current Tory government.

I'll give you one FACT that shows how disconnected you are from reality - you state that sleaze is rampant on an 'industrial scale' (your words not mine) - well did you know that not one single case of sleaze has yet to be proved - and it's been a year and a half since the pandemic started!

Not one case, nil, zilch, zero, nada!

And this despite all the crusading activists and journalists trying their damndest to prove one!

Yet you (and ten of thousands others) believe the hype about sleaze even though nothing as yet as ever been proved.

You fully believe what you want to see but the reality to most others is that government might not be the best but it certainly isn't the pits as you make it out to be.

If you saw a black lad in a posh car would you assume he stole it?

If you saw a middle eastern bloke on the train with rucksack would you think he was going to blow it up?

Yet you fully believe that if one rich tory knows another one then there has to have been sleaze happening somewhere along the line???

Sleaze on an industrial scale...

Yeah right, you're believing too much social media mate and wanting it to be true...

...and so far it simply hasn't been!

Not one single case proven.

Not a one!

Well said, Hip and Glos.    

This latest attempt by the Tories to by-pass their own rules on, this time, self-isolation, has shown an astonishing lack of judgement. The huge backlash caused a re-think, but too late to salvage their reputation as a party which has one rule for them and another for us. They seem to think that their sneakiness will go undiscovered or uncriticised by the media and us plebs. It needs calling out by all right-minded people.

Their complete lack of judgement was compounded by sending out Jenrick to face the press....Jenrick, the very man who also flouted the party's rules in travelling hundreds of miles to visit parents when the rest of us were in lockdown! They have no shame or are very stupid, probably both!

I sense the mood of the country is shifting to one of disdain.

Sluffy, I don't know why you are having a go at Hipster. I voted for this government, and its leader who I thought was full of character. Unfortunately, I believe the country has ben sold a pup, as the Americans would say. He's had enough time to show his true character, and I for one think he's a useless, indecisive, numpty, and has never had a unique or enterprising thought in his head since the day he got in. Sound bites and snappy slogans, and there his skills seem to end. His only redeeming factor? listening to somebody who said push the virus delivery, most probably because this insipid bunch of arsoles have nothing else going for them. Even Sunak is ready to renege on the pensioners agreement, and he's the most competent of them all.
I would still vote Tory, as they are the best of a very bad bunch, and its my right to complain when I see stupidity, dishonesty, and incompetence, especially when they are taking so much money off me and every person in the country, to show us how bad they are.
Rant over 

gloswhite wrote:Sluffy, I don't know why you are having a go at Hipster. I voted for this government, and its leader who I thought was full of character. Unfortunately, I believe the country has ben sold a pup, as the Americans would say. He's had enough time to show his true character, and I for one think he's a useless, indecisive, numpty, and has never had a unique or enterprising thought in his head since the day he got in. Sound bites and snappy slogans, and there his skills seem to end. His only redeeming factor? listening to somebody who said push the virus delivery, most probably because this insipid bunch of arsoles have nothing else going for them. Even Sunak is ready to renege on the pensioners agreement, and he's the most competent of them all.
I would still vote Tory, as they are the best of a very bad bunch, and its my right to complain when I see stupidity, dishonesty, and incompetence, especially when they are taking so much money off me and every person in the country, to show us how bad they are.
Rant over 

I've never voted Tory, but Glos just about has it right. I was willing to give them a free hit at the start of all this, but, putting any possible sleaze to one side, the level of incompetence has been staggering.
It's beyond satire now.
And now Cummings is blowing off again. What fun.

gloswhite wrote:Sluffy, I don't know why you are having a go at Hipster. I voted for this government, and its leader who I thought was full of character. Unfortunately, I believe the country has ben sold a pup, as the Americans would say. He's had enough time to show his true character, and I for one think he's a useless, indecisive, numpty, and has never had a unique or enterprising thought in his head since the day he got in. Sound bites and snappy slogans, and there his skills seem to end. His only redeeming factor? listening to somebody who said push the virus delivery, most probably because this insipid bunch of arsoles have nothing else going for them. Even Sunak is ready to renege on the pensioners agreement, and he's the most competent of them all.
I would still vote Tory, as they are the best of a very bad bunch, and its my right to complain when I see stupidity, dishonesty, and incompetence, especially when they are taking so much money off me and every person in the country, to show us how bad they are.
Rant over 

You can rant as much as you want Glos but the simple facts are that what Hip Priest stated was wrong - the recent by by-election polls prove that.

Hartlepool, which as always voted Labour since the present district was set up in 1974 - voted on the 6th May this year for a Conservative MP.

Why would the people of Hartlepool do that if they thought the present Tory government under Johnson and with Hancock and all the rest of them were so bloody bad and corrupt?

They turned a 3,595 deficit into a 6,940 majority!!!

The answer simply is that they don't see them that way even if you and Hip Priest do.

Batley had been a Labour seat since 1997.

Batley returned the sitting Labour MP at the General Election in 2019 with a 3,525 majority.

Since then and with all the things that happened with Johnson, Covid, Cummings drive to Barnard Castle and everything else that has gone on (allegedly!) when they held their by-election on the 10th May this year, their majority was slashed to a piddling little 323!

Why would the Labour voters cast their votes for the Conservatives if they truly thought they were so corrupt and basically crap at everything?

Again the answer is that those people simply don't view Johnson et al like you and a number of others on here do!

If they did then people would vote tactically to get them out as happened in the by-election at Amersham where Lib Dems took the seat from the Conservatives.

Even then the Labour vote collapsed to it's worst ever by-election total in the Labour Party's entire history.

These are facts - not my opinions on things.

It is also a fact that not one case of sleaze as yet to be proven  - yet Hip Priest tells us it is being done on an 'industrial scale' - there's simply no truth to that belief - or should I say non that as been shown to be true in the last year and a half of all these allegations arising around the awarding of Covid contracts.

If Hip Priest or you want to believe the Moon is made of cheese, then go ahead - it doesn't make it true though - and all I've done is to point this out.

You may view me doing that as having 'a go' at him but as far as I'm concerned all I've done is pointed out that his opinions and the facts don't tally with each other.

boltonbonce wrote:I've never voted Tory, but Glos just about has it right. I was willing to give them a free hit at the start of all this, but, putting any possible sleaze to one side, the level of incompetence has been staggering.
It's beyond satire now.
And now Cummings is blowing off again. What fun.

I think you are much nearer to the mark, Bonce, by discounting all the hyperbole over sleaze, dishonesty and corruption.

All this has been up to now just propaganda being pushed by the likes of Maugham and the political agitators.

I'd be more than delighted if they could back up just a single claim of the multitude that have been made but even after a year and a half now they have not even got enough to get the police making investigations let alone got anyone to stand trial yet.

The government has made lots of mistakes - there is no denying that - but at the same time they aren't spreading Covid - people do that - and let us be honest millions have been breaking the rules daily - irrespective of how good or bad the government has been.

For my money Johnson should have formed a coalition government as soon as he could after Corbyn had eventually buggered off and allowed a new Labour leader to be appointed.  Maybe even he should have been asked to step aside and allowed Starmer and Long-Bailey to be co-opted to form a coalition government.

At least that way whatever mistakes were made - and there would have been - the country would not perceive anybody in particular doing stuff for party gains - there would be no sleaze allegations for a start because Labour MP's were part of the process and having to scrutinise and agree decisions at every step of the way.

Cummings would have been sacked and not allowed to undermine the credibility of the whole government by his actions and Minister lining up to defend the indefensibility of his actions.

All water under the bridge now though.

The biggest issue this government has had in probably the last twelve months is the inability to give clear and meaningful communication - far too many mixed messages and u-turns - symptomatic of not having a clear strategy and the facts to base decisions on.

As I've said though you can only govern with the consent of the people.

What do you do when millions disobey the rules daily?

Anyway it is what it is, they've seemed to have gotten the big call about a vaccine and getting it in to peoples arms, correct and that alone deserves credit.

That might be lost if todays total unlocking turns into utter chaos - but let us hope it doesn't.

Fingers crossed anyway.

Sluffy wrote:

So what you are saying is the vast majority of people prefer a government of staggering incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze on an industrial scale rather than vote in a Labour administration.

Do you really believe that - after all you've just said it?

Do you honestly believe the majority of people condone incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze more than Kier and his mates?

Of course they don't - what utter crap that is.

Just because YOU see the government that way (maybe even those around you see them that way too) doesn't mean the rest of the country does also!

In fact they clearly don't, otherwise they wouldn't vote for them - even if it meant tactical voting to get other party's elected other than Tory or Labour - which indeed happened at the recent June, Amersham by-election when they elected the Lib Dem candidate (and incidentally gave Labour its WORST EVER by-election result in its entire history!).

The Labour party LOST Hartlepool to the Conservatives in May of this year - do you think the voters there voted FOR "staggering incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze"  in preference to voting Labour???

Of course they didn't!!!

What I'm saying is YOUR perception of the Tory government is simply NOT the majority view of the country - the actual by-election results since 2019 PROVE that - it isn't me saying it - the voters in those constituencies have gone out and physically voted as such themselves.

If people believed the same utter bollocks that you seem to do, do you think they would have unseated Labour in Hartlepool and dealt Labour the worst ever by-election result in its history at Amersham both as recently as two months ago???

Labour aren't perceived to be the Devil incarnate - indeed they even just held on to Batley a couple of weeks ago - it is simply that the vast majority of people don't believe the hogwash you clearly do about the current Tory government.

I'll give you one FACT that shows how disconnected you are from reality - you state that sleaze is rampant on an 'industrial scale' (your words not mine) - well did you know that not one single case of sleaze has yet to be proved - and it's been a year and a half since the pandemic started!

Not one case, nil, zilch, zero, nada!

And this despite all the crusading activists and journalists trying their damndest to prove one!

Yet you (and ten of thousands others) believe the hype about sleaze even though nothing as yet as ever been proved.

You fully believe what you want to see but the reality to most others is that government might not be the best but it certainly isn't the pits as you make it out to be.

If you saw a black lad in a posh car would you assume he stole it?

If you saw a middle eastern bloke on the train with rucksack would you think he was going to blow it up?

Yet you fully believe that if one rich tory knows another one then there has to have been sleaze happening somewhere along the line???

Sleaze on an industrial scale...

Yeah right, you're believing too much social media mate and wanting it to be true...

...and so far it simply hasn't been!

Not one single case proven.

not a one!

Just to briefly answer your usual incorrect assumptions about what what my opinions are.

I said the Tories would win easily because they are a well funded party, backed by Murdoch's media who (by and large) manage to avoid major in-fighting. Johnson is a popular figure despite all his shenanigans and still a massive vote winning machine. Lots of people vote for Boris just because they like him and think he is "different" or "funny" etc and don't give a shite about or even understand what he gets accused of.
The Labour party is a complete mess. It's torn apart by infighting and can't decide which way it wants to go. It's basically unelectable because no one really knows what it's policies are, not to mention the fact that if you go onto the high street and ask 50 people what they thought of Kier Starmer 48 of them would reply "Who"?
That's what I was saying. No idea what you were prattling on about.

I did state my opinion on this government. Obviously the rest of the country does not share my opinion. I never said anything about other people's opinion, (not even those around me). As usual, just expressing my opinion.

The Labour party did lose the Hartlepool by election to the Tories. They voted Tory because voting for Labour for ever and a day has got them nowhere. Boris offers hope of change and improvement. No Brainer. I'm pretty sure it's hope only but there again that's just my opinion.

Never said my perception of the Tory government was the majority view of the country. My election forecast should have made that plenty obvious.

Don't know what utter bollocks it is that you think I believe in but if you've watched regular news reports over the last few months this governments honesty, ethics, Integrity and competence have been called into question many many times. So several ITK political commentators obviously don't share your opinion that everything is squeaky clean and above board.

I don't believe hogwash about this Tory Government, I have an opinion about this Tory government.

I can't prove that cronyism etc has taken place any more than you can prove that it hasn't. But I can form an opinion based on the facts I have available. You have formed a different opinion based on the same facts but they are both just opinions.

I think you just need to grow up a bit really.  Wind your neck in a touch, get yourself a little bit of humility and you'll be ok again.

Let us have a look at what you actually did say because it certainly wasn't anything to do with what you claim you had said above.

Hip Priest wrote:It's a sad indictment of the current state of the Labour party that if there were a general election tomorrow the Tories would still win with a large majority despite the shambles they are presiding over.
Staggering incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze on an industrial scale is what we are stuck with now I'm afraid.

So absolutely nothing about Murdock, the Tory funding, the invisibility of Starmer to the electorates eyes and all the other guff you spouted.

You actually said in simple terms that people will vote for incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze rather than Labour.

I even asked you did you truly believe that???

Sluffy wrote:So what you are saying is the vast majority of people prefer a government of staggering incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze on an industrial scale rather than vote in a Labour administration.

Do you really believe that - after all you've just said it?

Do you honestly believe the majority of people condone incompetence, dishonesty and sleaze more than Kier and his mates?

Of course they don't - what utter crap that is.

As for the national medias news on reports of Tory sleaze "on an industrial scale" then kindly link me to that because there simply hasn't been any.

Of course you get your opposition MP's like Rayner banging the drum about it - but that is simply her politically point scoring because up to now there simply hasn't been a single case of any being taken to court let alone been proven.

Even Cummings who has a clear agenda to destroy Johnson and Hancock (I know Hancocks gone but he was about when Cummings started stirring his shit)  and must know where all the skeletons are buried hasn't played the sleaze and corruption cards - when they would immediately lead to Johnson's instant resignation.

Why hasn't he then, he certainly has the means to leak it to others for them to do the dirty work on his behalf?

He's not done so because all this 'sleaze' and corruption simply hasn't happened.

You say you've formed your opinions on the facts available to you - what facts are these - no corruption has been found, no cronyism either?

You have in fact based your opinions or your preconceived prejudice against the Tory party and the vast amount of social media innuendo which basically claims that simply because a Tory supporter who won a Covid contract knows a Tory Minister then sleaze/corruption must have taken place for that to have happened.

I tried in my earlier post to you to put that view into context of how absurd that actually is!

Sluffy wrote:If you saw a black lad in a posh car would you assume he stole it?

If you saw a middle eastern bloke on the train with rucksack would you think he was going to blow it up?

Yet you fully believe that if one rich tory knows another one then there has to have been sleaze happening somewhere along the line???

And finally I do actually know a few pertinent facts that you don't (or at least ignore) and that is, as I've stated from the start of the pandemic, that Ministers/MP's DON'T award contracts - Civil Servants do - and that is why if any actual sleaze or corruption actually did take place it would have to had been done by a Civil Servant - and there are far too many checks and balances for that to have happened.

I'm not blowing my own trumpet but I did say this a year or more back - and despite the tsunami of innuendo and propaganda from the usual political activists since then of such sleaze and corruption having happened - non as been proven - there aren't even any police enquiries taking place.

Why - because no one has any evidence - there is non.

This is all about damaging and weakening the government in the electorates eyes - and whilst it clearly has devotees like you swallowing every word of it, it has clearly failed with most rational people - such as Bonce - who discounts that element in his view of the government which is far more rational, reasonable and considered than yours and all the others who believe innuendo rather than facts.

Just going out on a limb here, but what I get from HPs Post is that although all this scandal and stuff goes on with this shit show called the tory party, people are still voting for them. All the scandal or whatever gets brushed under the carpet by a lot of media outlets so some people either don't understand it, choose to ignore it, or you get others who are just pig ignorant and think Boris is a cheeky chappy who shags about a bit.

Here is a handy list of Boris' crimes up to December 2019.

It is rather a long read, but I'm sure some will happily pore over all the contents.
 
I'm presuming that lies, disregard for the law etc will be considered as corruption.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/37-lies-gaffes-scandals-make-18558695

y2johnny wrote:Just going out on a limb here, but what I get from HPs Post is that although all this scandal and stuff goes on with this shit show called the tory party, people are still voting for them.  All the scandal or whatever gets brushed under the carpet by a lot of media outlets so some people either don't understand it, choose to ignore it, or you get others who are just pig ignorant and think Boris is a cheeky chappy who shags about a bit.

Sort of got it right Johnny but you've fallen into the same trap as HP in that although there might be an awful lot of talk and innuendo about the 'scandal' there isn't actually any facts to link anyone to sleaze or corruption.

Let's make one thing clear here - no one is sweeping anything under the carpet or media turning a blind eye to it, nor are people not understanding it - there is absolutely no evidence that these things have gone on - nothing!

The police WILL prosecute if they have evidence, the papers will put stuff on the front pages, if they have evidence, Starmer, Rayner and the Labour party would be waving it about in the full glare of parliament, if they had evidence.

Even Cummings would be tweeting and blogging about it (look at all the stuff he's already said about Johnson and Hancock) and he's already done all this without providing any evidence of what he's alleged about them so far - yet even he hasn't claimed there was corruption and sleaze happening!

There is NO evidence.

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

If someone could provide the evidence, then that is a different matter entirely - the police would be arresting people, it would be the main story on the telly and front page in the papers, Labour would be asking for the government to resign, Cummings would be laughing his cock off!!!

There is no evidence - yet people believe what they read on social media just like many believed QAnon which was all about reptile devil worshippers, paedophiles, with Donald Trump protecting the world from them, or something like that!

There must be loads of people looking for a scrap of evidence to bring Johnson and the Tory government down - and let us not forget that this has been ongoing for a year and half now but nothing has been found so far - and if there really was so much sleaze and corruption happening as claimed, the surely someone would have found something by now???

All you have are people saying one Tory knows another Tory and they've got a big Covid contract because of it - that is just the same thinking as saying the black kid is driving an expensive car he most have stolen it.

Perhaps the most widely known story is about Hancock's local pubs landlord got a big Covid contract because he and Hancock were mates.

Don't you think the press haven't bent over backwards to prove there was corruption and cronyism about this contract - of course they did - but the story simply didn't turn out to be true!!!

The facts were that the landlord was a subcontractor to another company that was awarded a Covid contract - the landlord didn't even win a contract from the government - but social media and the likes of Maugham didn't bother to set the record straight did they - they want people to believe corruption and cronyism is rife so that people will vote against the Conservatives in the next elections.

okocha wrote:Here is a handy list of Boris' crimes up to December 2019.

It is rather a long read, but I'm sure some will happily pore over all the contents.
 
I'm presuming that lies, disregard for the law etc will be considered as corruption.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/37-lies-gaffes-scandals-make-18558695

This was published by the Daily Mirror just before the 2019 General Election in which the Labour Party lost 60 seats and their 'red wall' was utterly demolished.

It led to Corbyn resigning and an on going cull and attempted turn around away from the  Corbynistas and their supporters in the Labour Party itself.

The choice set before the country was Johnson and all his 37 lies, gaffes and scandals or a Corbyn Administration.

The country overwhelmingly chose Johnson.

The lesser of two evils in their opinion.

Mine too fwiw.

Depends on your definition of slieze ? When the Health secretary tells me to keep a safe distance and wear a mask etc whilst he is sticking his tongue down his collegues throat and touching her up at work, could be evidence of slieze but apperantly not under this government. 

There is NO evidence.

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

wessy wrote:Depends on your definition of slieze ? When the Health secretary tells me to keep a safe distance and wear a mask etc whilst he is sticking his tongue down his collegues throat and touching her up at work, could be evidence of slieze but apperantly not under this government. 

There is NO evidence.

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

???

You've got the wrong definition of sleaze!!!

We are talking about the 'noun' and it being tied in with corruption whilst you are thinking about the (informal) verb and hanky panky!!!

Sleaze

Noun
Immoral, sordid, and corrupt behaviour or activities.
"political campaigns that are long on sleaze and short on substance"

Verb (INFORMAL)
Behave in an immoral, corrupt, or sordid way.
"you're the last person who has to sleaze around bars"